My X is a horrible, horrible person

The BBQ Pit
1

This is making me so angry I have to vent somewhere, so here goes…

My ex-husband used to be difficult and rigid, but had his good points. So I married him and we had 3 kids. Then he became an alchoholic and his his personality took a decided turn for the worse. So he’s my ex-husband. One of his less attractive traits is that he’s a drama queen who seems to need to stir up trouble if there’s not enough problems in the lives of those surrounding him.

My two oldest are girls - let’s call them “Pam” and “Jan” . Pam is very driven and graduated from high school tops in her class and is now doing well at a very intense university. Jan is laid back, happy to bob along in life and will be attending a land-grant state university next fall. They get along very well, and all three of my kids are extremely close. And they tell each other everything.

For whatever reason, X has decided that Jan must feel bad about not being a straight A student and not going to a “better” college. To remedy this he took it upon himself to spend an evening with Jan trashing Pam. He kept insisting that Jan was actually smarter and better than Pam in every way. Not surprisingly, this did not have the intended effect of making Jan feel better about herself, it just made her resent X more, plus, since the stuff he was telling her was so patently stupid, made her feel like she must REALLY be a retard if he had to make up such nonsence for her benefit.

To top it off, he then sent her a follow up email (which she sent to Jan and me). A portion with names changed is here:

   Hi Jan - thanks for having dinner with me last night.  I like talking 
     to you and hearing what you have to say. 

     I want to reemphasize that I do think you're smarter than your sister.
     Grades are not the only measure of that, nor is dedication to studies.
     As I mentioned last night, you have abilities Pam will never have.  As 
     I also mentioned last night, I'm certain you will be very successful and
     do great things.
     Love, Dad

Way to fuck with both of their heads. Other than telling them that they are both great kids and I love them I don’t know what to say to them.

It’s officiallly none of my business, but I’m tempted to e-mail X and tell him that it is terrible and idiotic thing to directly compare siblings and that no good can come of it. Also, if he wouldn’t mind cutting off his nuts with a rusty screwdriver and then jumping off a bridge I’d appreciate it.

2

Your response sounds reasonable and deserved to me. Just don’t do it in email or voicemail, since from the sound of him, your ex will share whatever you say with your kids, but twist it somehow.

Call him and tell him your thoughts directly.

3

But if the ex is going to twist her words, he can do it from a phone conversation as well. And in that case, it would be a she said-he said situation, and Long Time First Time would have no proof of her words. Because of that, email may actually be the better route.

I am neither supporting nor condoning that response. It’s your choice, Long Time First Time. I don’t know you, so I trust you to make the best decision for you and your daughters. I’m simply saying that if distorted words are a concern, use an approach that indicates what was truly said in your conversation with your ex.

4

Ugh. Family fights are always ugly fights. I’m afraid they rarely get better by involving strangers, but one can always try.

Granting that your ex is an irredeemable ogre and that his motive in trying to build up Jan’s ego is as awful as his method seems to be…

Why do you suppose your daughter sent a copy of her dad saying potentially hurtful things to you and to her sister (I’m assuming there was a typo in your OP and that you meant your ex talked to “Jan” and that “Jan” forwarded the E-mail to “Pam” and to you)? Did she say anything else?

Why do you and “Jan” feel that the proposition that “Jan” might actually be just as smart or smarter as her more academically successful sister “Pam” must be “patently stupid.” How long has “Jan” been made to feel this way, and how, exactly, was this accomplished?

Your ex is probably evil incarnate, and the rest of you innocent victims. But bad people don’t always do bad things, and good people don’t always veer to the Right. The situation as you’ve described it is confusing, and I have a little experience at volatile family dynamics, being a much-less than perfect father myself.

5

No, I appreciate outside insights. I’m too close to be objective.
I decided to say nothing to him directly, as it might make me feel better, but it certainly won’t help anyone else.
Yes, the email was sent Jan and Jan forwarded it to others. From as near as I can tell - she did this to explain to Pam why she was so upset. The talk didn’t make her feel better, it made her feel much worse. I gather it went along the lines of - “So what your sister got all A’s in honors courses and you barely got B’s in regular courses, you’re still smarter.” He went on to outline every way she objectively had achieved less than her sister, them maintained that it didn’t matter, she was still smarter. She also felt like her Dad was trying to win her favor so that she’d be on his side instead of Pam’s. Pam and her Dad hadn’t communicated since January, when they had a big falling out.

Dad also sent Pam an email (first communication in 4 months) thanking her for a birthday card. What has typically happened in the past is that Pam replies and includes in the message the fact she was hurt by his comments. He then gets defensive and innocently says, “All I did was thank you for a card.” and then complain to Jan and their brother that Pam is always attacking him for no reason.

I advised Pam not to play that game and to just say “You’re Welcome” and leave it at that.

Jan just might be smarter than Pam. Even so, it’s really beside the point. There’s no reason for anyone, let alone a parent, to tear down a kid to make another feel better.

6

I think your ex and mine must be related. When my daughter was 12 and had done extremely well academically, I rewarded her with some “glamour shots,” which she had asked for. She is very pretty and they came out quite, well, glamourous! (Nothing over the top, just hair done and some make-up.) She was thrilled and sent off one to her dad who proceeded to write to his entire family about how she looked like a hooker. There aren’t enough rolleyes in the world. I just gotta think there are some crayons missing from the box.

There’s no way you would get through to him. He just wouldn’t get it.

7

My dad does this stuff with me and my three sisters all the time (we’re between the ages of 24 and 29). He’s looking to stir up shit and get people angry. The best way to thwart him is to ignore him and limit contact. IMHO.

8

Would it reach him if you said something like, “Comparing Pam and Jan just makes them both feel bad. I know that’s not your intention, but that is the effect. Would you consider not doing it in the future?” Gives him the benefit of the doubt, which it sounds like is better than he deserves, but it might make him more receptive to your criticism.

9

I guess I’m missing something, here.

Alcohol impaired parental unit takes it upon himself to try to make middle child feel good/better about herself by attacking oldest child.
Middle child, having no desire to join any attack on older sibling, but upset that alcohol impaired parent effectively (if incompetently) insulted her, shares parent’s stupid statements with family.
Older child is not upset at middle child.
Middle child is not upset at older child.
Everyone knows parent is dolt.

The only point I would think you need to make is to reassure middle child that alcohol impaired parent was incompetently trying to pay her a compliment and that she is certainly not as dumb as he inadvertantly painted her.

There is no point in chastising alcohol impaired parent (who will deny statements and be unable to understand what was wrong with what he said–and will be more likely to bring up the subject in the future, if challenge, in order to “clarify” his comments).
There is no need to reconcile older and middle children, since they are smart enough to have not let this cause a rift. Again, simple reassurance to them that they are both good and loved (even if incompetently by alcohol impaired parent).

Aside from trying to explain the problems associated with a disfunctional personality (further impaired by alcohol) to the kids and telling them to let it go, I would say that you should let the matter drop rather than making it an issue that the alcohol impaired parent can bring up as part of a catalogue of evil efforts at sabotage that you have conducted over the years.

10

Wow, the X really does seem like a nutbar, or emotionally immature at the very least. Looks like he’s well on his way to making himself unwelcome at his daughters’ weddings.

11

That reminds me of something Paul Theroux wrote about the problems of being a middle child - and how he had an Indonesian nanny - and the Indonesians worship the middle child. I can’t find the reference - but I was highly amused by it.

Realistically, he was probably trying to reassure her, and was thinking about the ‘academic spread’ that one tends to find amongst siblings. Sort of intelligence is multi dimensional stuff.

However he made a right hash of it, and has come out looking like a real dick head.

I suggest you forget about it - he sounds inept rather than malicious.

12

Pythagoras’s theorem doesn’t change school to school. The square root of 9 is still +/- 3. The Earth still revolves around the Sun. Sartre still wrote No Exit. One byte still equals eight bits.

The quality of education doesn’t change by the school, only by the student. You of course don’t need me to say this, but if my daughter, I would encourage her to do her best regardless of the institution.

13

A wise old lama once told me:

Show compassion for he whose mental furniture is in disarray. Smile, nod, pat him on the back and say “That’s nice… oh, look, flowers!” and walk away. You can argue until you’re blue in the face, but the furniture won’t right itself.

There’s some wisdom in that.

My best wishes to you and your kids. Know your furniture is right-side up, at the very least… :wink:

14

I’ve seen this behavior where the X-Dad felt left out of the family and inadequate and this was his way of trying to isolate a calf from the herd. He wanted someone “on his side” and he thought that way to do this was split up the family emotionally and turn them all against each other.

Like, your family they saw right through it.

15

That’s my take too. This seems like a perfect example of “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
He was trying to help. He just doesn’t have the sensitivity to understand his methods were all wrong.

16

But the central tenet of Buddhism is still “Every man for himself.” Right?

17

This appears to me to be a classical case of family dysfunction. I’m not an expert by any means but I am an alcoholic who went through counseling. Alcoholism affects everyone in the family, but it isn’t the root cause of hubby’s unintentional negative behavior this case. It probably goes back to the family environment he was raised in. He probably thinks older daughter has the world by the tail, can’t be harmed and that he’s thinks the other daughter needs this negative reinforcement. As a kid, I went through this bullshit myself by a non alcoholic dad being compared to my brother 2 years younger. I was the smart one. Everything was going fine for me until my brother became way more successful than me. I didn’t realize that it was a problem for me until I went into counseling. I can assure you that I’m very careful about not comparing the different attributes of my two daughters.

The best thing IMHO is for your ex is to go into counseling.

18

This thread might be of interest.

19

It shouldn’t make things better to know that there are others as in pain because of similar dysfunction, but somehow it does. I really feel for you Quartz.

20

That sucks. My dad was a drunk who likes to creat chaos (he’s not a drunk anymore, but still likes drama). I think there are a couple of things going on: 1) he wants to peel off one daughter from the herd to get her on his side; and 2) he wants to create a bunch of drama/bullshit that has him at the center. Neither one of these things is what imagine Ward Cleaver doing, but it seems to come standard in some parents’ playbook.

My sympathies. I hope your family is able to shrug it off and move on.