Natalie Holloway

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

@magellan01

Hmmm, I’m not sure I know what the problem is here. I’m not sure if it’s that you’re a blathering idiot or a dishonest scumbag. Of course there is the distinct possibility that it’s not an either/or proposition. But let me explain this to you using small words. If I would have stated that a rape took place, you might have had a point. But I didn’t state it happened. I stated that it “possibly” could have happened. Then when it came to her being killed, I qualified it less, but still qualified it, with “probably”. So, Idiot, words matter. And if you were either a little smarter or a little more honest, you would have seen that the construction of the sentence displayed a hierarchy of certainty: from something that “possibly” happened to something that “probably” happened to something that “definitely” happened. I hope that helps. Though I have little reason to be optimistic.

So I can safely safe that you might be a pedophile who might gets his rocks off raping puppies?
I hate people ducking out from their own assertions by putting these little qualifiers in.

@magellan01

Well, why don’t you start now and admit that you’re putting words in my mouth saying I made up facts? Again, I am not optimistic.

You allegedly made up facts then.
See how it works the other way around? Dildo.

@magellan01

Worse for whom? I’m more concerned with the Holloways in this regard than you and your ilk.

Fuck you, you RO-loving piece of shit.
You don’t give a shit about the Holloways as it is becoming more and more clear that you are somehow getting your rocks of making up things that have no foundation whatsoever in reality.
Maybe he raped her after she was dead?
Does that turn you on?

@magellan01

Evidently you are. I heard on TV the other night it Aruba it is worth two years time.

Fair enough, I was wrong.
Still they will first need to get some prove.

@magellan01

I know what evidence is. It’s the thing you need to point to to back-up an assertion of fact. That’s why I used words like “possibly” and “probably”. And why I wouldn’t use them when claiming that you are an idiot. Instead, I can just point to the evidence: the thinking you’ve demonstrated in this thread.

Sure, whatever floats your boat.

[magellan01]

@Scoundrel Swanswater

I hate people ducking out from their own assertions by putting these little qualifiers in.

Your stupidity is now making my head hurt. My original statements included the qualifiers. It’s not that I added them afterwards. If I wanted to assert as fact that she was raped and killed I would have left those qualifiers out. Now seeing that you think she wasn’t raped and/or killed, you should be glad that I used the qualifiers. But no, you want me to hold a opposition I don’t hold so you can rail against it. Do you see how stupid that is. Then again, I don’t think you’re the one to evaluate stupidity.

Qualifiers are a valuable tool. They allow us to communicate degrees. I used three, in order of certainty—“possibly”, “probably”, “definitely”—which should prove instructive to even those highly stupid but honest. So I see now how you might have missed it. Oh, and by the way, your little game of using qualifiers to make possible even things with virtually NO possibility of being true, just makes you look childish. So we have: stupid, dishonest, childish. In which case, I’m done with you.

[saoirse]

@magellan01

Your stupidity is now making my head hurt. My original statements included the qualifiers. It’s not that I added them afterwards. If I wanted to assert as fact that she was raped and killed I would have left those qualifiers out. Now seeing that you think she wasn’t raped and/or killed, you should be glad that I used the qualifiers. But no, you want me to hold a opposition I don’t hold so you can rail against it. Do you see how stupid that is. Then again, I don’t think you’re the one to evaluate stupidity.

So it’s okay to state things with no evidence whatsoever as long as you qualify it with “possibly?” You watch a lot of History Channel, don’t you?

[Aries28]

So…I’m confused.

How can we prove she was drunk, drug addled, ready to have sex with Joran any more than we can prove she was drugged, raped or killed by him?

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

@saoirse

So it’s okay to state things with no evidence whatsoever as long as you qualify it with “possibly?” You watch a lot of History Channel, don’t you?

That is what I was trying to say as well.
Just by putting qualifiers around something magellan01 can always say “I didn’t say that !!”.
It is the cowards way of saying something without actually saying something.

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

@Aries28

So…I’m confused.

How can we prove she was drunk, drug addled, ready to have sex with Joran any more than we can prove she was drugged, raped or killed by him?

By looking at the evidence, maybe?
Such as the security footage from the casino where she met Joran, the statements from her classmates that saw them leave.

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

@magellan01

Oh, and by the way, your little game of using qualifiers to make possible even things with virtually NO possibility of being true, just makes you look childish. So we have: stupid, dishonest, childish. In which case, I’m done with you.

But that is exactly what you are doing.
So maybe you are the dishonest one?
I am glad you are done with me, now kindly fuck off back under the fucking rock you crawled out of.

[Aries28]

@Scoundrel Swanswater

By looking at the evidence, maybe?
Such as the security footage from the casino where she met Joran, the statements from her classmates that saw them leave.

Hearsay. I don’t think there is any security footage showing her taking drugs. And security footage can prove she had alcohol…not that she was drunk.

I have yet to hear any of her classmates say she told them she was leaving the bar with Joran to have sex with him either.

[Acsenray]

@Aries28

the statements from her classmates that saw them leave.

Hearsay.

That’s not hearsay.

[Aries28]

@acsenray

That’s not hearsay.

How would classmates know she was or was not planning to have sex with him?

[saoirse]

@Aries28

How would classmates know she was or was not planning to have sex with him?

She may have wanted to talk to him about Jesus.

[Aries28]

@saoirse

She may have wanted to talk to him about Jesus.

I highly doubt it.

My point is how can one scream “You have no PROOF” when claims of date rape/him drugging and/or killing her when they equally have no proof of their claims she was drunk, drug addled and just itching to have sex with him?

I have already said so WAY earlier in this thread that I think she was stupid and foolish and made unwise choices. I think Joran is a smug little shit who had more to do with it then we’ll ever know.

I just don’t get how one can claim she was a slutty drunk who got what she deserved but that he was a choirboy who did nothing wrong because there is no proof to the contrary?

[saoirse]

@Aries28

I just don’t get how one can claim she was a slutty drunk who got what she deserved but that he was a choirboy who did nothing wrong because there is no proof to the contrary?

Eek. I gotta be with you on that one.

I was just wondering where the roophie thing came from. It’s such a strange thing to speculate, with no evidence.

[wring]

@Aries28

My point is how can one scream “You have no PROOF” when claims of date rape/him drugging and/or killing her when they equally have no proof of their claims she was drunk, drug addled and just itching to have sex with him?

thought there was no doubt that she was in a bar, drinking excessively on the night she disappeared. She was originally w/friends, then left w/3 strange men willingly. I don’t think it’s a big stretch to say she was drunk certainly. Drug addled, don’t know, itching to have sex - I’d say itching to continue partying w/strangers vs. her pals.

[Freudian_Slit]

@Duckster

The former.

And here I thought we’d gotten beyond “nice” versus “slutty” girls. Damn, and is it the 21st century already?

[Dangerosa]

@PunditLisa

Now, think to yourself, why would a person go to the trouble of dumping a girl’s body into the ocean? The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that you’ve done something wrong and you needed to dispose of the evidence.

If he truly didn’t do anything wrong, then he could have easily just left her body on a beach, knowing that the subsequent autopsy would have proven that he wasn’t at fault in her death.

Panic? Fear? People sometimes do really strange things when confronted with very scary and frightening circumstances. I don’t have much of an opinion one way or the other, but I don’t think you can say “you must have done something wrong.” Sounds a little too much like the prosecution talking to Tom Robinson in “To Kill a Mockingbird” to me.

[bufftabby]

@Freudian Slit

And here I thought we’d gotten beyond “nice” versus “slutty” girls. Damn, and is it the 21st century already?

Jeez, everybody knows sluts deserve to be raped. Only nice girls get to say no. Once a girl says “yes” to one guy, it applies to all of them. [/tonguecheek]

[PunditLisa]

@Dangerosa

Panic? Fear? People sometimes do really strange things when confronted with very scary and frightening circumstances. I don’t have much of an opinion one way or the other, but I don’t think you can say “you must have done something wrong.” Sounds a little too much like the prosecution talking to Tom Robinson in “To Kill a Mockingbird” to me.

I didn’t say he MUST have done something. I’m saying he destroyed all forensic evidence which would have proven his guilt OR innocence, so we’re left to speculate. Either he’s a sociopath or he’s incredibly, criminally, dumb. Not to mention a cold hearted bastard.

My sympathy is with the drunk, slutty blonde.

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

@Aries28

I highly doubt it.

My point is how can one scream “You have no PROOF” when claims of date rape/him drugging and/or killing her when they equally have no proof of their claims she was drunk, drug addled and just itching to have sex with him?

I think this is a case for Occams razor.
All available evidence points to her being in the casino at the time binge drinking and leaving voluntarily with Joran.
In the current “Girls-gone-Wild” generation I think it is safe to speculate that she indeed did want to at least make out with Joran.

@Aries28

I just don’t get how one can claim she was a slutty drunk who got what she deserved but that he was a choirboy who did nothing wrong because there is no proof to the contrary?

I don’t see anybody saying Natalee deserved what she got.
I myself am not saying that Joran did anything wrong or that he isn’t a despicable little shit.
BUT… I am not going to sentence him for murder or rape when there is no reason to think this actually happened.

[saoirse]

@Scoundrel Swanswater

I don’t see anybody saying Natalee deserved what she got.
I myself am not saying that Joran did anything wrong or that he isn’t a despicable little shit.
BUT… I am not going to sentence him for murder or rape when there is no reason to think this actually happened.

I’m just confining myself to not making up unusual ways for him to have raped and murdered her.