Need advice on dealing with a difficult family member

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve been having problems with my sister in law for many months now. It all started in January, right after Christmas, when Mr. Athena received an email from a friend of my sister-in-law. It was the classic “e-mail sent to the wrong person” situation. It was obvious that my sister-in-law, who will be hereafter referred to as J, was bashing Mr. Athena to this friend, and that it hadn’t been the first time. The email was very insulting to my husband. From what I’ve gathered, J was offended by an earlier e-mail from Mr. Athena in which he made a somewhat lewd joke. In retrospect, the joke was in bad taste. He shouldn’t have sent in out. In his defense, there’s been a long history of email threads between my brothers, me, Mr. Athena, J, and sometimes even involving my mother or aunts. The men tend to “one-up” each other with insults and bad jokes. Until this incident, it had all been in good fun, and we had no clue that anyone thought it was anything but typical friendly insults and competition.

When we first got the mis-sent email, I immediately called J, and had a conversation with her about the whole incident. The point I tried to get across was “We’re all family - if you had issues with Mr. Athena, you should have called us. Please don’t bash him to people who don’t even know him.” In addition, Mr. Athena immediately sent a very nice apology to J via e-mail. He would have called, but at the time he was upset enough that he wasn’t sure what he’d say, but he did want to apologize quickly so sent the email. It turns out the J never even read the apology - we found out later that she’d simply deleted it.

This has been a Big Deal in our family. Like I said, we’re close. Since this happened, J has:

  • cut off communication with my mother and father for several months. They all used to be quite close, and J had a good relationship with both my mom and dad. After a few months, she resumed talking to them, but it’s not nearly the same level of friendship they all used to have.

  • made no attempt to talk to either me or Mr. Athena, except saying “Hello” at certain family gatherings

  • not made it to many family events. We typically have family type stuff every month or so - a gathering for someone’s birthday, a trip to the family cabin, that kind of stuff. Many of these she hasn’t even shown up at. Sometimes my brother and their son come, but she doesn’t. Sometimes they all show up, and at several of them she’s sat by herself away from the group.

After talking to my Mom, Dad, and brother (J’s husband) about the whole incident (there are no secrets about it, and everyone has seen the offending email thread), Mr. Athena and I decided to just try to slowly rebuild the relationship. When J shows up at a gathering, we say Hi. The last gathering - about 3 weeks ago - we ended up going to a local bar together and having some beers. It wasn’t like it used to be, but it was friendly, we all chatted & joked together, and I thought things were getting better.

Then, this past week, I find out that J went to a local shop where my 19 year old niece worked, and gave her an earful about how horrible a man Mr. Athena was. She managed to get in some jabs towards me as well, and said stuff about how we flaunt our money, buy expensive toys and throw them in people’s faces, and when my niece housesits for us (as she’s done a few times) she should take us for all she can get because we’re rich and we deserve it. She insinuated that Mr. Athena chases other women. She even tried to get my niece to say bad things about our dog, for Og’s sake!

All along, J’s complaints about us center around:

  • Mr. Athena being some sort of disgusting man who chases other women, is disrespectful towards women, and is “just gross.”

  • We both flaunt our jobs and look down on the rest of my family for being in the trades instead of having white collar jobs

  • We make a lot of money (I wish!), buy expensive stuff, and flaunt it

Obviously, I don’t think any of the above accusations are true.

So what do we do now? I hate to cause strife within the family, but in all honestly I can’t see how I can continue to even say “hello” to this woman. I tried for months to do the right thing and rebuild the relationship, but this last incident pretty much proves it hasn’t worked. The ironic thing is that a few years ago, J cut off all communication with her own mother, citing that she was a backbiting bitch who wouldn’t quit talking about J behind her back. Um… J? Isn’t this the same damn thing that pissed YOU off?

It’s pretty much a given that she will never be invited to our house, but I don’t expect the rest of my family to cut her off. How do I deal with her on Christmas…at birthdays… at any social occasions? Right now I just want to punch her in the face. Is there any thing I can do to get her to quit bashing us to anyone who will listen? This is a small town - malicious gossip can cause problems. Is she just nuts? Any advice is welcome.

PS - there’s obviously a lot more that’s happened that I haven’t mentioned, for the sake of brevity. If anyone has specific questions, please ask - trust me, I’ve been over this incident so many times with so many people that I can probably answer any question.

2
  1. why did you call J? Can’t your husband deal with his own conflicts? You overstepped your boundaries and further complicated matters there.

You are taking too much responsibility for your husband’s relationship with J. Work on your own stuff first

  1. I’m getting alot of he said she said, and no direct communication. You want to fix it? Talk to her about it directly, and stick to her issues with you.

  2. she’s got big issues of her own and her problems with you guys are about 10% what she says they are and 90% her own baggage.

  3. To get her to stop bashing you, well, she’s probably not gonna because otherwise what power does she have? Maybe you can try the ol’ godfather strategy: keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

oh, and punching her in the face is probably a step backwards

3

Well, have you ever looked at it from her point of view? Maybe she’s right…at least through her eyes.

or maybe not

Try sitting down one day, (when you are not pissed) and write her a letter. Take your time and be nice. Explain your side of the story and let her know that you respect her and are at least trying to see her point.

Tell her how much you want her back in your life.
AND APOLOGIZE for whatever it is she blames you for.

After you finish the letter, set it aside until tomorrow, then read it aloud to yourself. See if it is what you really want her to hear. She will read it, it’s a lot harder to throw away a letter than it is to delete an e-mail.

Now, go to the post office and send it registered so you know she will get it. This will also let her know that you are serious. It’s easier to respond to a letter because you are not “hit” all at once and in person.

Sign it affectionately and ask her to call. I seriously doubt this will go by w/out a response.

Good luck :slight_smile:

4

The letter idea might do some good.

I forgot to mention:

  • The times I’ve called her (except the first time) she’s refused to take my calls. When my Dad had a stroke and I called to let my brother and her know, I had to tell the whole story to my nephew (who answered the phone) because my brother wasn’t home and she told my nephew to tell me that she was out in the garden when he tried to give the phone to her.

  • Mr. Athena has bandied about the idea of going over to her house and talking to her one on one several times. Given her history, he’s afraid that she will take whatever he says and twist it into something it’s not. She did that when I initially called her - I meant nothing but good, and she’s complained to my mother about how much of a bitch I was on the phone.

  • I asked my brother (her husband) if one or both of us should talk to J directly. He didn’t think it would be a good idea, so we haven’t really pursued it.

  • As far as “is she right?” - well, I’ve thought about that one a LOT. I’ve gone to all my family - brothers, parents, aunts, etc. - and asked them directly if they’ve had problems with me or Mr. Athena in the ways that J talks about. Everyone comes back and says “no, this is J’s problems, not yours.” In addition, my Dad took it upon himself (we didn’t ask him to do this) to take my brothers aside and ask them if they’d ever seen Mr. Athena do the stuff that J accused him of. Their answer was that J was the problem, not Mr. Athena. If she’s right and we’re wrong, well, everyone is hiding that really well.

  • We’re not the only ones this has happened to. J spent a couple years hating one of my brothers for some incident or another (I don’t remember the cause.) She got over that. My other brother and sister in law (the parents of my 19 year old niece mentioned in the OP) hate her to the core because of past gossip and bad behavior.
    And also - at this point, I’m not really looking for advice on how to “fix” the situation. It’s not an easy situation, and a letter, conversation, whatever, is not going to be a magic bullet that makes things all better. In fact, I don’t want to make it better - regardless of how I initially felt, after hearing all the crap she’s said about both me and my husband, I don’t want to be close to her or be friends with her. I just want to know how I can see her in the basic social situations where she shows up and not punch her.

5

Clean up your own conscience, let her hatred go, breathe.
If she’s as evil as you say she is, then everyone probably knows it and you have little to fear from her gossip.

Chances are there is some perceived truth in the things she says about you. Like, you believe it to some degree.

If she has the ability to hurt you with the things she says, chances are she’s hitting close to something true inside you.

Become comfortable with the things you see in yourself as ugly and undesirable, she’ll be no problem after that.

6

Polite disinterest? Treat her as you would a random stranger you have no interest in getting to know. Don’t ask her about her family/pets/job/etc? Respond to any questions she asks (as long as they’re proper), say hello when the situation arises, and ignore her the rest of the time.

Sounds like she has serious issues, especially if she’s spreading malicious lies. Keep in mind that she seems to be serial about this.

7

my WAG – your SIL has some envy issues that are absolutely crushing. i suspect she eats herself up inside because your lifestyle is what she would like for herself; she resents you for having what she does not, and backstabbing is her only means of “evening the score”.

since this isn’t the first incidence of her “hating out” a family member, i feel relatively confident in saying that this is a basic pattern of her behavior. fergawdsake, she was blacklisting her own MOM for the type of behavior that she displays in spades! i’d say not only did the apple not fall far from the tree, but she is conveniently (or willfully) blind to her own failings in that department. of course, if that was the model of behavior that she grew up with, there’s always the possibility that she believes that’s the way you’re “supposed” to deal with people. it would be pretty surprising if she grew up to be a kind, loving person if her role models were all nasty evilminded people.

shunning your parents certainly seems completely uncalled for. what was this…retaliation for being called on her bad behavior? and her point was…??? it sounds an awful lot like someone who just LOVES to have a reason to be mad at people.

i certainly don’t advocate you maintaining a “hate” of your own for this internally-twisted woman. it takes up far too much of your time, energy and emotions… much more than i’d be willing to expend on her. (it certainly won’t make life any more pleasant for your poor brother, either.) i’d simply do my best to treat her as any other seldom-encountered stranger who you have no wish to publicly insult. (like maybe the boss’s wife who you have to meet at office functions, but who has no interest in or connection to the workers.)

bile-filled people eventually poison the areas around themselves thoroughly enough that intelligent people have no trouble spotting the source of the contagion. i’d just roll my eyes, shake my head and say “consider the source” (to myself, if not out loud) if her idiocies get floated out to the world at large. the people who know you should be able to draw their own judgments and conclusions. the people who’d rather believe all the bad things they hear are probably the ones who’d ALWAYS rather believe the bad in any case.

8

Thank you, greck, DeadlyAccurate, and lachesis - between what you all wrote and going on a good run, I think I’ve sorted out that what I really want to ask is not how to deal with HER, but how to get rid of the animosity and hate that I now have towards her. I’m not a hateful person; I don’t like not liking someone. I’m not sure how to deal with the anger that comes up when I hear her accusing my husband of being a womanizer. It especially sucks that she’s now brought the children (well, young adults) into the mix - the poor girl had no clue about the situation at all until J accosted her at her workplace.

<sigh> I don’t want to feel this way, but I truly think that she’s an evil person. I love my brother, and I don’t know how (or why) he deals with her.

9

One thing I would add is for your family to be careful not to spend a lot of time discussing her when she’s not there. People have a sixth sense about this kind of thing - she probably assumes you all are already, and if there is any chance to work this thing through, you will need to not do that.

It might not be a bad idea for Mr. Athena to invite her out to coffee, in some neutral but public location (so she can’t claim he was coming on to her in her own house or some such crap), and try to discuss why she hates him so much (in a non-accusatory way, of course). If she won’t come, or refuses to have any kind of decent discussion, then I think your options are pretty much to write her off. Unfortunately, this probably means you will lose contact with your brother as well, but he has an obligation to stick with his wife. Until he divorces her because she’s a nutcase.

10

What a nasty situation! I think you should just take the high road. It seems obvious that everyone else knows how she is. So if you encounter her, be civil and polite at the very least, then live your life as if she didn’t exist. Don’t waste any more energy fretting about her - she’s not worth it. If she grows up and behaves like a mature adult, you haven’t done anything she could hold against you, and if she never changes, you’ll learn to let it go.

I had a flaky SIL who turned her own father into the IRS for tax fraud - and then couldn’t understand why he didn’t want to see her when he got out of prison. (She’s since divorced out of our family.) The world is full of weird folks and you can’t let them drag you down.

11

For me, the key element in your tale of woe is:

and I agree with ** lachesis** analysis that she’s probably eaten with jealously.
I think it was Waylon Jennings that said (sung):
"And one thing I’ve learned is this
You just can’t shake hands with a fist… "
Y’all have done your best. Give it up and, while remaining as cordial as possible, distance yourself from her.
If you refuse to give her fodder, she eventually move on and target another victim.
As for how to deal with her at future functions-avoid,avoid, avoid while killing her with kindness.
In other words, when you first see her, make some innocuous remark about how lovely she and then flee to a distant corner of the room.
The former will make her crazy trying to figure out what your motiviation for saying something pleasant could be and the latter will get you out of the danger zone.
Good luck-toxic people are never easy to deal with.

12

That starts at the very core of yourself and radiates outward.
-running helps
-respect the truth, in all forms; there are thing she says about you that are true, things she outright makes up, and alot of stuff in between.
-surrender to reality
-become comfortable with the fact that it’s never gonna not suck. Shoot for “it sucking less” and understand this to be a by-product of the above mentioned.
-increase your running mileage.

13

Damn, nobody is advocating the “Punch her in the face!” scenario! And that’s the one I really liked.

(just kidding! really! It’s just a joke!)

14

one of the great mistaken notions of our times is that emotions have a life of their own. “love” will exist undyingly, despite all slights, insults and injuries, and “hate” will boil unceasingly within one’s breast as long as the target continues to exist.

bullcrap.

on BOTH counts.

love and hate both need constant nurturing, subconciously and conciously. unless you consider reasons and needs to continuing loving or hating someone, you ultimately begin to feel the opposite. which is…

indifference.

many years of fueling hate experience here. it takes a whooooole lot out of you – constantly reminding yourself what a nasty disgusting person the hatee is, feeding the justifiable rage that keeps the hate stoked. it drains things out of you, though, without you expecting it. it also tends to stunt your soul. when you work so hard to keep 1 single person out, it somehow winds up blocking off your ability to let other people in.

try not thinking about your SIL too much. think instead about your brother and how much you care for him. think of water wearing away stone. great quote i just read recently (and immediately forgot where i saw it): “The stone is strong, but the water is patient.”

and maybe say to yourself from time to time, “There but for the grace of God…”

15

Kill her with kindness. She will have no leg to stand on when she starts bitching about you and the mister, because no one will see anything but The Athenas being nice to her. Actually, this worked for me. My husband’s best friend’s wife had a hard on for me for years and I just treated her well. We’ve become friends! Go figure.

16

My extended family has - uh - issues. And while we have not exactly explored the “punch in the face” option, there have been attempts to hit folks with cars, trashing other cars with a vacuum cleaner, various substance abuse, drawing blood, bigamy - all kinds of good clean fun.

Yo know, IMHO some relatives - whether by blood and marriage - are just assholes. And all you can do is acknowledge that and - at best, try to be civil with them when forced to be with them. Hi and bye is plenty. And it is easy to find an excuse to go to the other room, or find someone else in the room to talk with.

I hate the fact that historical differences/etc. are inevitably brought up whenever any group of the one side of our family gets together. But I have learned to ignore it. Sooner or later the conversation will turn to something I care about.

If she stays away from family gatherings because you are there, that’s her loss, and for her husband to deal with. And it is tough if this hurts your relationship with your bro. But he’s the one who chose to marry her, not you. The worst thing would be to let this irrational person adversely affect your family unit.

A letter can be a good step for simply putting our your position in a clear manner. If that will give YOU any piece of mind. So at least your words aren’t misremembered or twisted. Could cover several family members. But don’t think the letter will resolve any issues. In fact, IME it may well lead to a very unpleasant written response.

As far as gossip is concerned, I find it best to try to take the high road. If folk hear gossip, they will find it hard to believe if all of their personal relations with you are different. Don’t lower yourself to that level and try to spread stuff on her - whether true or not!

And, also IME, malicious folk may achieve some short-term success. But over time, folk pretty generally see through them, and come to the realization that their own experiences with this toxic person are consistent with yours. And, as far as family is concerned, you have to keep an eye on the long run.

You’ll never be friends with this woman. But any time she is willing to participate civilly in family functions, seriously consider meeting her there.

17

Yow, she sucks.

I think FairyChatMom gave you the best advice. Take the high road.

Personally, I’d keep it civil but cool for the social encounters. She can’t get into it with you personally if you pull back and just disengage and talk about the weather. There really isn’t anything you can do to keep her from her behind the scenes mudslinging. However, most people aren’t stupid and are capable of making their own decisions based on what they see for themselves.

I’ve always found that I got the best exercise while I was at the imaginary boxing ring, that is, direct your anger towards her into your gym workouts. You’ll get a better work out and the rage won’t sit inside you eating you up.

18

Thanks everyone for your replies, and for verifying that I am not nuts for being angry over this situation.

I talked to another of my brothers yesterday (I have no shortage of male siblings.) He’s the one who’s probably closest to J and her husband, and he’s also the one that she pulled a similiar thing on 10-12 years ago. He was very surprised to hear about the incident with my niece, and, like me, had been thinking things were getting better between all of us. He once again told me that “J has a lot of problems.”

I think I’ve decided that I’ll do my best to either ignore her or be distantly polite at family gatherings. I’ve also decided that about the only way I can think of to counteract her malicious gossip is to make it known when I hear about it. I’m not going to cover things up for her - when she acts innappropriately, I’m going to let everyone in the family know what’s going on. Not in a malicious, gossipy way - but I do want people to be aware of why Mr. Athena and I are not working towards us all being friends again.

Once again, lest it be thought that I’m going to be spreading rumors about her - that’s the last thing I want to do. I’m going to refrain from talking about her as much as possible. But when and if I hear anything more about her bad-mouthing me or Mr. Athena behind our backs, the incident will not be covered up. If I have to break up family accord over her run-on mouth, I think it’s important that people know just why she’s not been invited to dinner at our house when everyone else is, or why I always stand at the opposite ends of the room from her at holiday gatherings.

19

That sounds like your best, most sanity-saving plan.