Need some advice

Okay, here’s the situation. If you’ve been following along, you will recall that I’m actually kinda shy when it comes to asking women out. Also, I have incredibly bad radar for knowing if someone is interested or not, or just being nice, etc.

There’s a girl in my karate class - new this session. She’s very delicate - very skinny, gets hurt easily. She’s also young - just out of high school. And she seems to have a really big crush on me.

First dilemma - technically I am one of the instructors, so it puts me in a little bit of a bind because I don’t want to come off that I’m using my position, etc. Now that instructor bit is pretty thin, because all I do is take orders from the head instructor, and I have no control over grading. It is a college class, but I’m not on staff or anything - I’m just a member of the same karate school that runs the class, and show up to assist in teaching, and train a little myself. Anyway, there is the slight possibility I could be perceived as taking advantage. But I don’t think it’s justified, and should be able to make that clear to her as well.

Second dilemma - she is younger, just out of high school (18 or 19). I am about 10 yrs older. While that in itself isn’t such a big deal to me, there is the difference in maturity, self-knowledge, etc that comes with the age gap. She is very sweet. She is also very conservative and religious, and perhaps even a bit naive. This causes two problems. First, I’ve got this protective instinct kicking in, both triggering a white knight syndrome (to which I am very prone), and my associated alert to be cautious because of that tendency. Second, I’ve made no secret here that I am an atheist. While I am not ashamed of it, I haven’t made a big deal about it in the class either (or with many of the karate people), so it really hasn’t come up.

She’s sweet. She’s cute. She’s got a major case of hero worship, or a giant crush, or a little of both. This has been noticed and commented on by others, so I’m not just using my own broken radar. She also seems to be trying a little too hard. The conversations we’ve had feel a little like she’s trying to draw attention to herself any way she can. Having been guilty of that myself (trying too hard), I’m trying not to hold that against her.

The question is, should I ask her out?

Bear in mind that I’m a bit lonely at the moment. I could use some affection and attention. However, I am worried about the religious viewpoint difference. I am not out to corrupt her, to ruin her faith, or to destroy her morals, or manipulate her into anything she doesn’t want. In fact, the protectiveness thing is going off, I’m a little worried someone else might try to take advantage of her. I don’t think there is a strong chance of this really working out in the long run. I don’t know how she will react to finding out I’m an atheist, though I would hope to have some influence on her attitude. After all, I’m a nice, decent guy. It’s conceivable it could all be okay, but I know better than to think I’m going to miraculously change her.

I could use some advice, please.

And if you ask her out, and it doesn’t turn out well, you’ve lost what?

Go for it.

Irishman, it makes me feel very good that your protective instincts are fully intact. While the religion issue could become important down the road if you decide to become serious about each other, right now I don’t think it’s such a big deal. Ask her out, take it slow. It sounds to me like you’ve been giving this some thought and that’s a plus in my book. Go for it, you never know, and at least you’ll have a date for one night.
I understand lonely all too well, especially right now. Again, take it slow, lead with your head and your heart, and you’ll be fine.

I look forward to meeting you in Houston next month, I think you’re a very nice man.


You are more than a human being, you are a human becoming.
Og Mandino

That’s my name, not a description. I am neither purple nor a bear. Okay, so I’m purple.<a true Wally original!>

Definately ask her out.

Go from there.

It’s admirable that you’ve put so much thought into the situation.

You seem like a nice guy.

Before asking her out I would seriously ask yourself what you’re really trying to get out of this relationship. If it is just affection and attention, then don’t do it.

What we have here is a major power imbalance. She’s 18 and a naive college freshman, and, I’m guessing, from a strict religious background with not a lot of experience with boys. You’re 28, her instructor, and presumably have been around the block a few times.

Sure she has a crush on you. But it’s very natural to have a crush on an older, worldly instructor, particularly one in a physically demanding discipline like karate. And these sorts of crushes are very common in young women (and men, too) who are just experiencing the freedom of college.

Your saying it borders on hero worship makes it even worse.

Is there anything wrong with asking her out – no. Is it a good idea – no as well.

It sounds to me like there’s this cute young girl that has a serious crush on you, and the reason that you’re interested in her is little more than she’s a cute young girl with a crush on her. You see this as an opportunity to get some action. In your post you didn’t mention anything special about her and why you’re attracted to her, so I’m assuming that there’s not much other than the natural attraction between boys and girls.

If you were the same age and station in life, sure, go for it. Or if you really thought there was some special reason you were interested in her (and not bullshitting youself about it). But if what you’re doing is trading on this power imbalance to get some action, it’s a dick move. Don’t do it.

One man’s opinion.

So so far it’s 3 for, 1 against. Damn, not unanimous - it figures. Thanks for the input.

Billdo, your concerns are noted. They play a big role in my delay in decision making. I’ve been aware of the situation for some weeks, but debating internally the best course of action.

You ask the question what am I trying to get out of it. That is the question I have been asking myself. I wish I had a good answer. You say it sounds like a dick thing. Not exactly. I’m not out to take advantage of her, physically or emotionally.

For myself, I have found someone who is available, interested in me, and trying to show it. That is something that I do not find often. I am very good at finding “justifications” for not pursuing interests, or not “making a move”, etc. As I said, I am terribly shy (regardless of how I appear), and I feel like I am inordinately focused on the repercussions, especially to the other party. Sometimes I think I worry about the other person too much and not what I want. I realize you have no way of verifying that, and may not even understand. There is more about me in this thread. Why don’t ‘nice guys’ get laid? Keep in mind it is three pages long, and only sparingly about me (3 posts on pages 2 & 3?).

Because of this, I have been telling myself for some time that if I found someone who was available and interested in me and reasonably attractive, I would give her a chance. Well now I am in that position, but I can’t help but see all the reasons why I shouldn’t. The thing is how real are my reasons and how much are they more excuses - I cannot tell.

For her, she is interested and dropping hints. I cannot help but think it is as frustrating to her to not understand why I haven’t asked her out. I can only imagine it is detrimental to her self-esteem for me not to say anything at all. Maybe SwimmingRiddles or Mega can offer insight.

I guess the plan I’m coming up with is to ask her out with the intention of creating an opportunity to talk, seriously and without the distractions of having to participate in class and teach (what, this isn’t a dating service?). Then I can discuss my reservations with her, and together decide what to do from there.

However, I have my reservations about this working in the long run. So I’m trying to look at it as to why I should get involved at all. For me there’s the fact that I could use the dating experience, ego boost, and affection. For her, I see it as a positive dating experience with someone who won’t take advantage of her and will help reinforce her expectation that whomever she dates should respect her and her choices. Maybe even enlighten her a little to possible ways guys could try to manipulate her (what few I know).

Am I making this too difficult, thinking too hard about it? Am I off-base and setting us both up for more problems later? Am I missing something gasp I should be taking into consideration? Am I being fair to both of us? Should I just ignore her instead, or get her alone to explain and not give the option of dating at all, or take a chance for the reasons above? Should I go back to Jr High and start all over (with the requisite step through the youthifier that retains memory and experience intact)? Should I hook up with one of the SD crowd instead and save the hassle? (Who, please!?)

I’m getting a headache, and I still haven’t done my taxes yet.

Irishman,
<<<Before asking her out I would seriously ask yourself what you’re really trying to get out of this relationship. If it is just affection and attention, then don’t do it.>>>

You were so open and honest, but I hope you reread your own post. This is about * where you are in your own life right now *. I can empathize with your lonliness, but that doesn’t mean that you ought to compound the lonliness with the major complications of gaining another person’s heart.

<<<<What we have here is a major power imbalance. She’s 18 and a naive college freshman, and, I’m guessing, from a strict religious background with not a lot of experience with boys. You’re 28, her instructor, and presumably have been around the block a few times.>>>>>>

You’re just short of thirty years old, and hero worship IS NOT a good ground for a sold, EQUAL relationship.

You two DON’T have anything in common other than she has a crush on you, and you are lonely enough to want to be with * someone *. There is nothing flattering in that. Put yourself in her shoes, and someone was writing THE EXACT same scenario, but now YOU’RE the eighteen year old. How would it make YOU feel?

You have shown so much wisdom in your posts, and I know you have a lot to offer a young lady, but make it with someone who is both your intellectual and emotional ** equal **. Don’t go for what is just easy, you’re a much better man than that.


“I never saw so many words compressed into so small an idea.” Abraham Lincoln

10 years at 18 is a pretty big deal. Especially if she is a naive 18. I echo the others: beware. You might have dinner with her, but be up front and tell her your concerns.

The other thing to consider is if she’s interested in you because she knows her parents would disapprove of a 28 year old guy for their little Princess. 18 is when you rebel like that.


A little persistance goes a long way. Announcing:

“I go on guilt trips a couple of time a year. Mom books them for me.” A custom made Wally .sig!

Regardless of other considerations, you are in a position of some authority, so my first call is to say “don’t even think about it until she’s no longer a student of yours.”

My second call is . . . don’t do it anyways. There’s too much disparity between the two of you for a healthy relationship. Either you’re going to end up taking advantage of her, or she’ll end up taking advantage of you.

Look, just kick back, enjoy the ego boost and look elsewhere for something deeper.

Women I don’t date: e.g. neighbors, classmates, students, my brothers women.

If you’re gonna write long messages justifying why you should date her, then by all means ask her out. And don’t take advice from us :slight_smile:

If you think that the relationship will work out somewhat, then I think you should go for it, because even though I am very new here and dont really know you, you do seem like a nice, caring guy. The only one thing I would be concerned about if I were you, is that if you guys have a harsh break up or something of that sort, you will still have to be her instructor and will stil have to interact with her. Also, the religion issue might pose some major problems…


When life throws me a curve ball, my first reaction is to throw
it back. And then I realize, “Hey, I caught it!”
~ Jack Handey

Just went through this a couple of years ago with a friend of mine…except that he was a manager & she was an employee. Other than that, your description of the situation sounds so close to his, it’s scary. It started as a friendly, casual dating situation and grew from there.

If she’s of a very religious background, chances are high that she’s looking to marry, whether she admits/realizes that or not. It took my friend almost a year to extract himself from this situation - that was a year after he’d realized how bad things had gone - almost two years total.

He didn’t want to hurt her, even though he reached a point when the very sound of her voice drove him nuts. And that was without any sex - I’m not sure he’d ever have gotten loose if they’d had sex.

Despite the fact that she was attracted to him because he was so “bad”, she kept waiting for him to get religion and settle down with her. He kept waiting for her to grow up and get over him - and enjoyed her hero-worship in the meantime. Neither told the other (or probably themselves, for that matter) the truth. It was ugly - very, very ugly.

Good news - he eventually sucked it up and broke up with her. I believe she went back home to her small town, not too much the worse for wear. He’s now dating a very bright, self-possessed woman - a much better match for him.

So, IME, it’s a very bad idea. YMMV.

If you were able to keep it light – the occasional dinner, party, or concert – and you two had something in common besides the class, I don’t think it would hurt anything.

BUT like the other posters, I have some major problems with an instructor dating a student, even if you don’t have any control over her grades or anything like that. Just a little too much power imbalance, in my opinion.

Why don’t you wait until she’s through with the class, and ask her out then.


I understand all the words, they just don’t make sense together like that.

It seems to me you said:
She has a case of hero whorship, she’s too young, you are opposed religiously and don’t want to corrupt her.
And you can’t believe there is anyway this will work out in the long run, but you could USE a little warmth and affection.

I hate to disagree with the majority but I say No. In you heart and mind you know it's not the right thing and you have listed all the reasons and or rationalisations.

I believe you know what you SHOULD do. Though it's not what you might like to do.

Wisdom is the boobie prize,they give you when you’ve been --unwise!

It would depend how she looks, post a picture.

Okay, now it’s 3 for, 6 against, 4 caveats.

[droll]Sure is getting much clearer.[/droll]

Reading it the first time, sure looks like my second post made the tide turn quickly. Hmmm.

Anti Pro said:

Excellent warning. Something I’m always deliberating. Afraid I sacrifice myself too much sometimes.

Again, good comments. Echoing my own internal comments.

Rounded out by a compliment, now I have to listen to you. :wink:

SwimmingRiddles said:

Hadn’t considered that - it didn’t come to mind. I don’t get that perception of her. Nothing about her strikes me as being rebellious. Rather, she seems pretty content to live up to expectations. Rather excited about things that most people her age brush off or think odd. Like bragging her father and brothers are Boy Scouts. It came up in a camping situation, so it wasn’t off-topic. I think it was part of an effort to get my attention. She kept making statements that seemed like praising herself, not out of conceit, but rather to impress me.

To stave off questions, the camp was a karate thing, lots of people there, very crowded. A requirement for advancement.

Thanks, phouka.

Handy, the I ask for advice then write long responses justifying it because I’m showing the tangle in my mind. I hope by showing what I’m thinking I can show I’m not being flippant or casual, but rather am truly flummoxed, and why. I’m hoping others can tell me I’m on the right track or off base.

Rosethorn, redtail23, kunilou, elbows3, thanks.

All of your input was greatly appreciated. I’ll update you all by saying that this thread has now become moot. I was told Monday night that I was no longer needed at the college class. It is an interal, organizational thing, not commentary on me or anything. However, it severs any direct contact I have with the girl.

Story of my life.

Sorry, Sweetie, count me in the “against” pile. I can relate to when I was 18 and crushing bad on an older guy…BAD IDEA! And I was NEVER naive! There is no way to do this with hurting her. My guess is that she will say anything to reassure you enough to keep seeing her. You two don’t sound like you have any base in reality together. Sign me off sending hugs and sympathy…


It IS taking longer than I thought! Always remember that you are unique, just like everybody else. I just haven’t been the same since that house fell on my sister.

Against.

You’ve expressed the reasons not to clearly.

The reasons to don’t appear to benefit either you or her in the long run.

If you’re just lookin’ for nookie, go for it! It doesn’t appear that is your intention, and you seem to be the type who would complicate it anyway.

Dragonlady, bring those hugs and sympathy a little closer. :wink:

CheapBastid - good read.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Irishman}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

It would have been * easier * to tell you to go ahead, but I’d rather see you do the best for yourself, than ** settle ** for * anything * less.

I’m sorry that they let you go, but if it takes you away from the temptation, then it is probably best for both of you, you’ll be glad for it later, sweetie, I just * know it. *