NFL post-draft thread

The Game Room
61

Marcus Freeman maxed out in college. Matthews, however, has huge upside. Which is why he went (and was projected to go) in the first round. And, contrary to your assertion, is a perfect fit in the 3-4. He can blitz, he can stop the run, and he can cover. He also can play inside if need be. As I said, I’m not completely sold and have concerns that he’s an overacheiver, but everyone seems to be praising this kid, and I trust TT more than you trust Angelo, so we will see. Plus, he’s a hard worker, loves special teams, plays hard and always gives his best. He’s a football player.

BPA, according to TT. He had him graded a round or two higher, so they took him for value. Most people say he’s the best fullback in the draft. Even if it’s a dying position. And he’s supposedly going to help out our special teams, which desperately need it.

The knocks I’ve heard on him is that he doesn’t get on well with coaches and may not have the desire to work hard at football. But I love his upside and his intelligence. Hopefully, he’ll put it all together, get more aggressive, and become our staple at LT for a long time.

62

Here are a list of my guys who went undrafted in the draft who would be good pickups for any team:

Mitch King (6’1, 280), DL, Iowa: In college, he played DT, DE, and LB. He’s a high motor, scrappy kid with good production, but not great athleticism or size or speed (which is why he wasn’t drafted). I’d love to see if he could fit as a 3-4 DE.

*signed by Tennessee Titans

Everette Pedescleaux (6’5, 305), Northern Iowa: Almost the opposite of King, he’s a great athlete with incredible size and quickness and some questions about his desire and maturity. He’s clearly a developmental project, like a long term developmental project with only a slim chance of paying off, but I’d like to see him get a shot. I’d love him at DE in the 3-4.

*signed by Denver Broncos

Quan Cosby, WR, Texas: Too small and slow for the NFL, but damn productive. Plus he had to put up with Bill Cosby on ESPN and didn’t kill him, so he gets points for character.

*signed with Cincinnatti Bengals

Jeremiah Johnson, RB, Oregon: Productive RB who has durability issues. Not that the PAC 10 are defensive stalwarts, but he averaged 7.1 ypc this past year, so there is something there.

*signed with the Houston Texans.

63

Graham Harrell seems to have signed with the Browns. Great pickup- I know everyone hates spread quarterbacks, and he doesn’t have a big arm, but you have to respect on-field production.

64

#105 is too high, but I’ve always thought that there was a place for guys who could do a couple of diverse things competently even if he wasn’t brilliant, much as the Patriots used Troy Brown.

Imagine a guy who can be a backup fullback/short yardage back, take 5-10 snaps a game as a relief DE, and be a size/speed guy on special teams. That’s a valuable player for a coaching staff smart enough to use him.

65

In part, yes it is. I think White will be competent; Rodney Peete with better wheels. But I don’t think more than one other guy will be better than that.

Yes it does, if White wins the poll. I’ll give you the undrafted FAs, even though I’ll say now that that worries me a bit.

Done. Jameson’s it is.

I win! :smiley:

66

I have problems remembering where my car keys are. I’ll have to leave it up to you to remember the bet.

67

The Bears brought in 3 undrafted QBs to compete for the 3rd or 4th QB spot. FSU QB Drew Weatherford, Northwestern QB C.J. Bacher and Mizzou QB Chase Patton. These guys are in addition to the earlier signing of another Northwestern QB Brett Basanez to a 2-year deal. Between these 4 guys one will end up on the roster as a 3rd QB and another will be on the practice squad as the 4th we hope. I’m particularly interested in Patton, he’s got prototypical size and arm strength but just couldn’t beat out Chase Daniels to get on the field. The Matt Cassel comparisons are obvious.

Here’s a list of the undrafted FAs the Bears have signed. It’s a pretty uninspiring list.

We picked up a hammer of a Fullback in Cal’s Will Ta’ufo’ou. FB isn’t that big of a need for us and we’ve been using so many 2 TE sets that it’s not a position that gets on the field much. Still, I think he’s a pretty good player and he could steal the job from McKie. I’m especially pleased we weren’t silly enough to use a 5th round pick on him.

The rest of the players are nobodies. I’m particularly surprised that the Bears didn’t bring in any of the higher rated undrafted WRs or FS considering the open competition at the position. WR Aaron Kelly signed with the Falcons and would have been worth a look. WR Greg Carr from FSU went to the Chargers. WR Jaison Williams of Oeregon went to Washington. South Carolina FS Emanuel Cook went to the Jets. Marshall FS C.J. Spillman who I thought the Bears should have drafted ended up in San Diego too, not that I can blame these guys for opting to play in that city.

68

The Lions invitees are DT John Gill (Northwestern)
LB Andrew Downey (Maine)
LB Daniel Holtzclaw (E. Michigan)
C Dan Gerberry (Ball State)
S Otis Wiley (Mich State)
PK Swayze Walters (UAB)
WR DJ Boldin (Wake Forest)
DB Mark Parson (Ohio)

That’s Anquan Boldin’s younger brother there.

69

Here’s a nice composite for Draft Grades from around the internet. The NFC North is almost universally considered to have had the best overall draft of any division.

70

Which means, without fail, that we drafted the worst.

71

Here’s quick rundown of the NFC North’s Drafts.

Chicago Bears
I’ve already broken down the Bears in excruciating detail that probably bored anyone besides me and Hamlet to tears and I won’t rehash it too much here. So, let’s come up with a grade.

We need to break the Bears draft grade into two components. The Bears gave away a 2009 1st and 3rd Round pick and a 2010 first round pick for him plus Kyle Orton and got back a 2009 5th round pick to get Jay Cutler. Cutler is a A+ prospect without a doubt, he’s Matt Stafford with a hell of a lot better resume. However they gave up a lot for him, Orton is meaningless really but those picks were big. Had they not given next year’s #1 too I would have left the grade as an A+ but losing that has to count against the move. Chances are Angelo would have botched it but he might be fired come next season so maybe it actually has a little value. I’m going to call the Cutler portion of the draft an A-

The rest of the draft was a mixed bag. I like most of the players we got and I like the values of all but one of the picks but I’m left wondering what the strategy was. It wasn’t really best player available and it certainly wasn’t need based, it was some weird hybrid of the two that just came across and confused and tentative. As outlined before I’m left wondering where these players will get playing time if they should become first rate players. With the exception of Iglesias I feel like Angelo was looking for homeruns with every pick instead of filling some dire needs with more proven guys who might have lower ceilings. To sum it up, I think Gilbert will be a stud in rotation and Iglesias will probably end up starting for us this season. Moore could be a future starting CB and there are a few likely backups who have strong chances to make the roster. Generally that would be a good draft, but the Bears really needed impact players now or else 2009 will be a disappointing transitional year. The rookie portion of the draft gets a C-

Considering the first day is where you get the highest value players and most of your stars I’m going to give the Cutler portion 60% of the overall grade. That makes the final grade a low B. Grade: B

Green Bay Packers
I’ve also made my opinions known on the Packers draft so this will be short. I think B.J. Raji is going to be star in the league. I’m not looking forward to seeing him in the Packers uni and I’ll be quietly hoping that all those supposed character flaws rear their ugly head in the cold, boring North woods. The Pack gave up a bunch to land Matthews and that compounds the fact that I think he’s a bum. The rest of the draft is uninspiring. I don’t think either of the OT prospects have much chance of being starting Tackles but they could end up playing a good role inside, getting two with low-ish picks makes the bust potential minimal which is savvy. Drafting a FB who can’t rush the ball or catch at the top of the 5th round is comically dumb. The rest of the draft is littered with nobodies who don’t even offer any breakout star potential. If not for Raji this would be one of the worst drafts in the league. Grade: C-

Detroit Lions
The Kitties have a ton of holes to fill and I’ve been generally impressed with what they’ve done over the offseason. They won’t build a team from essentially zero in one offseason, but I think they took some positive steps without spending money recklessly in free agency like many other new regimes tended to do.

In the draft the Lions made it clear that they intend to give Matt Stafford weapons to grow with. LOUNE and others bemoaned the fact they they bypassed a stud OT but I think it’s a reasonable choice. Essentially what message that sends is that Stafford will not be starting in 2010. They can worry about adding an OT in FA or in the 2010 draft and in the meantime they got him a stud TE than can block and catch in Pettigrew and a smart, dynamic #3 WR opposite CJ in Williams. These 3 guys should be able to develop a good rapport now and grow together. That said, I really like Murtha’s chances to develop into a starting RT with a good NFL training room. Delmas might be the pick of the draft and will probably start right away and he’ll need to against the vastly improved NFC North offenses. Aaron Brown is a guy I really liked in the draft and could be an excellent complement to Kevin Smith and a player in the mold of Kevin Jones. Sammie Lee Hill isn’t a guy I think will be worth much, some draft geeks have been talking him up but I think that’s nothing but wishful thinking. Kiper wants him to succeed so he can feel smart for liking a guy from Stillman.

As you can see I really like this draft fro Detroit. They need players everywhere and I think they took a BPA approach and made it work beautifully. Their top 4 picks will all probably be starting for this team in 2010 and with needs all over the field criticizing them for not filling the need at OT with a reach seems silly. Grade: A

Minnesota Vikings
The Vikes didn’t have a ton of needs and they didn’t have a ton of picks, so there’s a nice bit of symmetry there. Their biggest need was at QB and never really had a chance to address it so I guess this will remain a ongoing drama in the preseason.

They added another big weapon in Harvin who scares the crap out of me. If they get Peterson and Harvin on the field at the same time with Berrian stretching the defense out you have a potential TD on every single play. If they ever get a good QB they will be damned scary. They also added Loadholt who looks like he has the potential to be a roadgrader on the right side clearing a path for Peterson and Taylor. I don’t know how he’ll hold up in pass protection but that’s not what they got him for. These top 2 picks have some serious character concerns and could flame out completely but both are solid values where they were drafted. Allen will probably help immediately in the return game and could develop into a starting CB much like DJ Moore for the Bears. He’s on a small side but they won’t be asking him to step in right away and he can add some bulk, eventually I expect him to be at worst a starting Nickelback because he’s got above average tackling ability for a corner. The rest of the Vikings draft is a big old zero, but their top 3 picks were all very strong.

If not for character concerns and the lack of late round picks this grade could be a bit higher. The Vikings gave away picks to acquire Sage Rosenfels and Kelly Holcomb from the Texans and Eagles respectively so you have to factor that in. They think Rosenfels could start for them and if he wins the job it makes this draft look even better. Grade: B-

72

I am amused that, on one hand you link to the composite draft grades where the Packers are graded with 5 A’s, 3 B’s, and one, count them, one C; yet you give them the worst grade of any of those. I do admire your fortitude in coming to your own conclusions and sticking with them. Too bad those conclusions are … faulty.

73

Well, linking to that page doesn’t mean I agree with the conclusions, it’s just interesting. Draft grades tend to be kind of silly since we know so little until 2 years from now, but what makes them even more silly is that half the “experts” commentary and grades don’t coincide.

Here’s what Prisco says about the Packers

He essentially agrees with me, yet he somehow gives you guys a B. If Matthews is a bad move AND they gave up multiple picks to get hm you have to mark them down significantly.

Of course the good grades were from people who like Matthews. Those people are stupid, so it’s neither here nor there. :wink:

74

Kiper’s grades are always hilariously mediocre and uninsightful. This year he has 21 of the 32 teams with grades between a B+ and a C+. Way to go on a limb there Kiper, and that’s actually a bold year compared to years past.

75

You call Matthews a bum, he calls Matthews good, and you somehow “Agree”? Prisco seems to be saying that Matthews is good, but the price was too much to pay. Now what counts as “good” is certainly up for debate, but he obviously doesn’t think it was the catastrophic mistake that you do. And I remain ambivalent about it, because I don’t know how good Matthews is, or what is too high. But I do trust TT and the Packers enough to think, at the worst, he’ll be a starter.

But, as you said, we will see.

One of these days I’ll search the database for the old drafts, and see just how wrong I was on some of my guesses. I seem to remember being high on Cedric Benson. …

76

It’s all a matter of perspective I guess. If Matthews is a replacement level starter, a guy that’s on the field for a couple seasons but represents an area for improvement in the 2012 draft I’d call that a bust and Matthews a bum. If Marcus Freeman has the same career I’ll call him a success. It’s all about relative value and if Matthews is anything short of a star and near Pro Bowl candidate then that was a bad pick in my book. When you trade up into the first round you’d really better get an impact player that is around for 6 or 7 years.

I did that after the Cutler trade and I intended to throw some of your comments into your face. Of course I then read some of my comments on other players in the same draft and decided discretion was the better option.

77

Omniscient’s link has the Eagles with the overall best draft. The more I’ve done soem reading and the more I’ve thought about it, I agree. This was a really fantastic draft by the birds. Made especially sweet by how bad Dallas’ draft was.

The Eagles signed from undrafted rookies the other day. Some of the descriptions of these guys sound very promising, and the Eagles have done really well with undrafted rookies as of late (Quintin Mikell, Jamaal Jackson, and Joselio Hanson). I know nothing about these guys, so if anyone happened to catch them in a game they watched, let me know what you thought of them.

RB Walter Mendenhall, Illinois St. - Rashard Mendenhall’s brother, 6.3 ypc average in '08.
S Reshard Langford, Vanderbilt - Four year starter, 8 INT, 16 tackles for loss.
FB Marcus Mailei, Weber St. - Two time All-Big Sky selection (yeah!! woo!) that can catch really well.
G Dallas Reynolds, BYU - Played all five OLine positions and was a two-time All-Mountain West selection.
CB Courtney Robinson, UMass - Two time All-CAA selection.
RB Marcus Thigpen, Indiana - Copy pasted - “Finished second in school history with 2,009 career kick return yards, third with 4,658 career all-purpose yards and tied for eighth with 21 career touchdowns. Became the first player in school history to record 1,000 yards rushing (1,621), receiving (1,028) and by kick return (2,009). Amassed eight career rushes of 70 yards or more. Earned first team All-America honors as a sophomore after leading the nation with a 30.1 yard kick return average and three touchdowns on 24 returns.”

Interesting bunch, I wonder if any will make the team.

Sounds like The Patriots got Brian Hoyer, of whom I heard at least twice was the most likely “Tom Brady” in this year’s draft. If New England grabbed him, I give that analysis a tiny bit more weight.

78

I really like the back end of the Eagles draft and the veteran additions they got in Peters and Hobbs make this a very good draft. I’m less sold on how Maclin and McCoy fit though. The seem to suffer from the same affliction as the Bears draft, meaning they drafted replacements as opposed to compliments. Replacements for guys that hopefully aren’t going anywhere that is. McCoy is Westbrook 2.0…wouldn’t they be better with a hammer like Beanie Wells who can compliment Westbrook? Maclin is Jackson 2.0…wouldn’t they have been better with say a tall, jump ball guy like Ramses Barden who they let the Giants trade up to grab in their spot?

79

Wells was gone a round earlier, and I think it was pretty well agreed that McCoy was the next best RB after him and Moreno. They took the best running back available. I’m not sold that getting “complimentary” players is the best strategy if that player is worse than the replacement one. Take the better player.

Because Barden sucks and Maclin is good? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a fan of Maclin’s by any stretch, but he’s better than Barden.

I don’t see a problem in drafting the best player available. I do see a problem drafting a worse player only because they are “complimentary”.

80

Don’t know if you saw it, but I made the same complaint about Maclin in the other thread; I’d have preferred they traded out of 17 and got Anquan Boldin. But if they weren’t going to do that for salary or whatever reasons … who else do they take? Hakeem Nicks? Mohammed Massaqoi? Yes, Barden is huge, but there’s a reason he was projected as a mid-round pick.

McCoy, is clearly a replacement, and that’s a good thing. Running backs get old fast, and Westbrook is 30.