Nice guys never get the girl....

In My Humble Opinion
61

Yeah, I was in on the Serlin thread too, but what the heck, this is one of my pet topics. Now listen carefully, I’m older than most everyone here, I’ve been through almost every phase described on this board, and I’m watching my teen-age sons go through it now. Comer closer, I’ll share something with you.

Women hate weenies. Is that clear enough? Women like guys who are self-assured, assertive and all that good stuff.

Now, at some point, usually AFTER high school, women learn that self-assured, assertive, etc., does not necessarily mean treat her like crap, get in trouble with the law, be a general asshole, etc.

But high school (or more likely 5th grade) is where this all starts. The nice guys get tangled up with the weenies, and the assholes, who naturally have the more dominant personalities, start getting all the attention.

You know who also gets the girls? Class clowns, star athletes (I mean the non-asshole ones), anyone who is at the top of their game and loving every minute of it.

Want the girl? Develop AND PROJECT a personality.

62

You had me right up until the end. I’m extremely allergic to cat hair.

63

All my (post-pubescent) life I’ve known women (or girls) that fall for one asshole jerk after another (and bitch and whine and moan about it), while I did everything I could to point out that I’m a “nice guy”!

Have I ever even dated one of them? No.

The more of a prick I am the more companionship I get.

I gave up trying to understand women, and concentrated on getting them into bed.

My results speak for themselves.

64

What about the nice guy, who has confidence, and a sense of humour, but unfortunately is also a geek of teh highest degree, and therefore is somewhat off-putting?

For this is I, and my love life has always been a big fat zero.

65

Hrm. Interesting topic, but I think the misnomer here continues to be “nice.”

I’m pretty snarky, myself. I crave intelligent, witty conversation from a partner. Crazy animal sex doesn’t hurt either, or good shoes. Nice physique is a plus, as is the ability to dress up or down depending on the situation. If I feel like I have the upper hand constantly, I’m outta there. Makes me sound kinda bitchy, doesn’t it?

However, I love my mom and my dog, have given and will continue to give my friends the love and support they deserve, donate time and money to charity, am nice to old people, don’t drink and drive, always wear my seatbelt and pick up the check often.

“What is ‘nice?’” asked Pilate, and washed his hands.

Oh, how I love my bad quotes.

66

I was hoping someone would touch on this…

No, the two are NOT synonymous! LIke Manda JO said, only 25% of people are really truly gorgeous, perfect, whatever (Seinfeld put the number at more like 5%). But these images of perfection are held up to us as the end goal. Generalizing here - I have seen many people walk right by someone who loves them, who cares and would do anything for them, in quest for the perfect ideal that is nearly impossible to achieve.

I agree with Drain here. All I want is a nice guy. I have been treated like shit by men, particularly in high school (“Oh, I’m stupid, disgusting AND ugly? But I LOVE YOU!”). When I went away to college I finally learned how to assert myself with men (the way I’ve always done in every other forum of my life). The minute my last boyfriend (who was a good friend for several years, and nerdy, and a typical “nice guy”) treated my like shit, he was out the door. I plan on keeping that attitude, even if I am single.

If you think you are the nicest sweetest cupcake that ever existed, and you still can’t get a date, then perhaps you present yourself in negative light when you meet girls, or maybe you aren’t all you’ve built yourself up to be. But don’t blame it on all girls, everywhere.

67

I’m gonna chime in here and say that I’ve always thougth myself to be a nice guy. And I never got any girls.

Then I enlisted in the Air Force and once I got to my permanent duty station, things changed. Why? The confidence level. I was still as nice as I had ever been, but my confidence was boosted after trimming up in basic training and having more confidence in myself. (And working for the Intelligence Squadron on a base where everything else was medical didn’t hurt either - that whole aura of mystery thing since I couldn’t talk about what my job was that much.)

Now I’ve been out of the AF for a while, put on weight in a failed attempt at quitting smoking, but I’m still a nice guy and still have no complaints with women. My confidence is still there. So that’s what all you fellow nice guys need to do. Don’t bitch and whine about how the jerks get girls. Any self-respecting woman will leave a jerk once she sees him for who he is. It’s the confidence they are attracted to. Work on building your confidence, but be careful not to get cocky or arrogant (it’s a fine line that I’ve crossed a couple times myself).

68

BTW - a little hint that I’ve found works for me:

Try being a little cocky and self-depricating at the same time. This worked a lot because I would simultaneously come off as confident and humble. Tough to pull off though, and it backfires if you don’t tread carefully.

It’s hard to give an example. Say something that on it’s own sounds incredibly arrogant, then immediately follow it with a joke about myself, negating the first statement. Don’t wait for someone to take that first thing you said seriously, follow with the joke right away so it doesn’t sound like you’re covering up how cocky you are. Then if you sound cocky, people will take it as you being tongue-in-cheek. Women love a sense of humor you know, but don’t rehearse lines! Be natural. Be yourself. The smart woman will sniff out a rehearsed line 3 ords into it. And if you’re looking for long-term, you’ll more than likely want someone smart.

Once at the enlisted club on base, I was chatting with a girl at the bar and she mentioned how all the guys were so terrible on that base and she just wanted to meet someone nice. I responded by saying, “Oh, I guess you wouldn’t want to go out with me then. I’m a horrible, horrible person underneath all this fake charm.” She then realized she’d been talking to a nice guy for the past hour and we dated for 3 months after that. Then she got assigned to a different base. Stupid military. :mad:

69

Oh you nice boys, let me explain to you the situation from a girl’s point of view. Let me precede this by saying I’m not a typical girl because I have very few girlfriends and don’t act bubbly and airheaded to attract guys. I hang out with a bunch of plutonic boy friends and I am not the type of girl to wear tight-fitting clothes and short skirts everyday. In my opinion. I think a lot of typical girls are subconsciously attracted to confidence. Any guy who portrays himself as aloof and above every other guy in the room, can make a girl feel like, “wow - of everyone in the room, he chose to talk to me.” This mindset seems to make the girl blind to the fact that the guy is a collasal jerk. I gotta tell ya, though, I’ve always been most attracted to the strong silent type. It’s so much sexier to look at a guy and immediately wonder what his story is, than to see a guy who’s desperately trying to strut his stuff in a manner resembling an animalistic mating ritual. So all you nice boys out there, please don’t think that you have to be something you’re not to get a girl. I’m tired of the world being deprived of guys who know how to treat a girl just because of this whole “nice guys finish last” cliche. There are some of us out there who are smart enough to see past those jerky boys, and don’t you want to find a girl with more than half a brain anyway? :wink:

70

Oh, I get it. By “nice guy,” you mean “doormat.” Well, sure THEY won’t get the women. All of the nice guys who also have confidence and assertiveness, who can be an equal partner in a relationship instead of a freakin’ welcome mat, will get the decent women.

Just niceness alone won’t cut it–but don’t say that NO nice men find good women. As has been evidenced, plenty have. I think you guys need to define your terms a little better. Don’t blame your failure on the fact that you’re nice, blame it on the fact that you have no guts.

71

Most men who have trouble getting women, have either…

Taken the wrong approach (i.e. the friend approach has a low percentage of payoff in my book)

Aren’t trying hard enough (i.e. they don’t get all cleaned up, don’t take chances, don’t go places where women are.)

Are looking in the wrong place (If you want a nice girl, don’t go try picking up strippers, conversely if you want a bad girl, don’t try and pick them up at church; Unless your catholic. :P)

Don’t realize that Confidence is key - forinstance, I was in a very popular club in a foreign country with a business associate. Whilst I just sat and drank at the bar and admired the pretty ladies walk by (I have a girlfriend that I am extremely faithful to). My associate was at the gambling table, he wasn’t even winning very much, but he was confident. He had to fight off the women with a stick, and even though he didn’t go home with any of them (he is married) he had a lot more chances to than I did.

I’ll give you guys a hint, if you want to meet lots of girls, take up some sort of social hobby, that girls like to do. No, not needlepoint, I’m talking about dancing. Most women love to dance, and if your good, and not afraid to lead, they’ll be lining up around the block to just spend as much time with you as they can. If you guys have trouble talking to women, or approaching them, just go take some dance lessons. It’ll give you conversation and break the ice at the same time.

I think got the girl, and I’m a pretty nice guy, but I’m no doormat.

As a side note, I met my girlfriend after a relationship drought of about 1 year (I was too busy feeling sorry for myself). I thought she was ok, until I found out about all the interesting stuff she had done, and all the stuff she likes.

Not to brag, but her interests include:
Sports (Football, Baseball, Hockey)
Guns
Computers
Working out
Monagomy (hehehe…)

She was the prom queen in high school, and can shoot guns better than I can. What more could a boy ask for? I think she’s the best thing on God’s green earth.

On the flipside, I didn’t get her being a doormat, or an asshole.

For those guys who have a lot of friends who are girls, but just want to be friends: Ask them everything about women you can think of, then adjust yourself accordingly. Realize that those girls that are friends, should stay that way, don’t go hoping for something that won’t happen. I’ve been there.

Don’t give up hope, just realize that the key to meeting women is building your lifestyle so that you make it easy.
Conversation, mixed with confidence is the cornerstone of meeting the types of girls you want, not looks, or physique, although they help.

72

Just because your a doormat doesen’t mean your a nice guy even. I know that when I was a doormat I was alot meaner than when I became a nice guy.

My only problem is finding a girl that I really like. Oh and I am also pretty much alone in my interests in my state it feels like. Out of about every 30 people I can find like 2 who know what the hell I am talking about if I talk about anything I like in even the most general of terms. (books and computers)

73

I’ve a friend who is a Nice Guy, a real nice guy in the sense of the word, but he is so girl shy that it’s pathetic and nothing I’ve done can help him out. In bars, he never picked up on girls giving him the ‘I’m interested’ signals and if one started up a conversation with him, he quickly locked up and ran out of things to say.

The few relationships he has had usually were because the girl went after him but they didn’t work out all that well.

He worked in a hospital for years and most of the other guys of his field bragged about tagging nurses and such, but he never did! No, he’s not homely enough to crack a mirror. He’s excellent with small talk and humor with girls until either he wants to date one or they him. Then he locks up tight.

Man oh man! Talk about chronic shyness over the opposite sex and this guy has it! Poor slob.

74

Hmmmm, where ARE all the nice guys?
Seriously, there are so many bitching, and I have never, ever, been with a “nice” guy. Or a guy who wants to treat me like shit.
Why do I think this is? Two reasons:

  1. “Nice guys” only like “hot girls”. I am, by no stretch of the imagination a “hot girl”, so I didn’t get any of the “nice guys”. These guys are not “nice”. They are just doormats who want women who are equally unassertive, or otherwise brainless.
  2. The second someone, anyone, treated me like shit, I either corrected them quickly (ie. “You ever try to pull that again, and I’ll shove this whatever I had in my hand up your ass sideways”) Or, I would just leave the situation. I wouldn’t put up with it.

So, what did I end up with in the end? A wonderful person who respects me, loves me, and treats me wonderfully. But at the same time, he is not “pussywhipped” and he stands up to me.
Moral of the story?
The “Nice guy” whine is really, really boring and trite. And not all women are attracted to “assholes”

And FYI: Just because the “assholes” get the women instead of the “nice guys” doesn’t make them “assholes.” It makes the “nice guys” sore losers.

75

{sap}For the record, I am a nice guy, Mrs. Shingen is a nice woman (and a hot babe too, and smart as a whip, and has a great sense of humor,{remaining gush removed for the sake of the cynical}), and in January, another nice guy will make his way into the world.{/sap}

Of course, Mrs. Shingen isn’t an American, so our results may not apply here.

The one other thing that I will share is that love finally found me when I stopped looking for it. I don’t know anything about “getting some trim” because I never really tried it, and certainly wasn’t successful at it. However I do know something about love. Real Love is like catching a soap bubble. The harder you reach for it, the harder it is to catch. Either the air pressure from your hand keeps it just out of reach, or the excess force from grabbing pops the thing. The secret is positioning yourself in the right place and waiting for it to come to you. At least that’s what worked for me. YMMV.

76

[rant]
Well, the last three men that I have been interested in have all been “nice guys” (not in the doormat sense). Two dumped me because they weren’t “ready” for a relationship, and one got scared off because I actually had the audacity to call and ask him to dinner. So I am really sick of hearing how “nice guys never get the girl.”

You know, at this point I’d like to be dumped for something I did or because of something I am. It would be quite refreshing.
[/rant]

77

How far from NJ are you A Girl and how old? I could go for someone with those traits

78

I’ve dated a few “bad boys” but I married the nicest guy I’ve ever met :slight_smile:

I had a lot of “nice guys” who had crushes on me in high school but I only liked them as friends. Was it because they were nice? No, it was because I wasn’t attracted to them. They were unattractive to me. Physically. Looks aren’t everything, not by far. In fact when I met my husband, I thought he was kinda funny looking. But I don’t think I could be romantically interested in a guy who I found physically UGLY. Most of the guys in HS who complained that they couldn’t get girls because they were nice… were nice, to be sure, but they were also generally rather ugly. There were a lot of more attractive nice guys and they were getting plenty of girls.

I knew a guy when I was in my early 20s who was a very nice guy and had a big crush on me… but he also had the nastiest breath!

There were also times when I would have dated a guy, but I was already dating someone else.

My point is just that there might be other reasons, and nice guys latch onto a cliché because it’s an easy excuse.

That said, I do think that a lot of “nice guys” are also “boring guys” and a lot of “bad boys” are more interesting. It is possible to be interesting AND nice though. Really.

79

Hola everyone!

O.K., I spent a looong time being a nice little unassertive, well, Dork. I was Mr. Super Nice guy. I didn’t have a problem attracting women/girls but I had a hard time keeping them interested at all. This made me jaded, and jaded led me into being more of a jerk/asshole (though not as near as most of the people that seem to be the subject of this thread.) Through this I noticed something: as much as women like to be pampered they also need to constantly fix or change things (like your furniture, the drapes, the nature of your relationship, etc). When you are a ‘nice guy’ who is perfect and waits on them 24/7 they get bored and suddenly you’re out. Women want broken toys, so they can be like “See, he was (that) until I got a hold of him, now he’s (this)”

Maxim did a good article on this: http://www.maximonline.com/articles/default.asp?article_id=3335

punk snot dead,
broccoli!

80

Hello. My name is Brad and I’m a recovering ‘nice guy.’

It seems to ‘nice guys’ that women don’t appreciate a polite, considerate, friendly, tender and romantic man. This is largely untrue. Niether are these qualities a complete picture of a “nice guy,” they are merely the positive characteristics. Nice guys usually have other negative characteristics that counter their effort to ‘treat a woman right.’

1: They’re ususally not exicting. A Sunday drive down a treelined park lane is enjoyable; but how would you like it if you were never able to go speeding across some hilly, curvy, backroads in a souped-up roadster?

2: They usually stifle their sexuality in an effort to not threaten a woman. This works great if they truly don’t want a sexual relationship; it’s a big mistake if they do. By turning off their sexuality a ‘nice guy’ will become effectively androgenous. They might as well be one of a woman’s ‘girlfriends.’ If an object of your affection has ever talked to you about their ‘jerk’ boyfriend, you know what I mean.

3: They have a tendency to relinquish control. Don’t confuse this with the notion that ‘a woman want’s a guy to boss her around,’ it instead has to do with respectability. Human beings, male and female, naturally test one another’s boundaries. Nice guys tend to fail these tests when they are taken advantage of by communicating “Oh, that’s okay,” because they don’t want to make a woman feel bad (they’re so nice!). But the message they are sending is recieved loud and clear: “It’s okay to take advantage of me.”

But the answer is not to be an insensitive asshole, you’re likely to get the same strike-outs a nice guy gets. Retain the ‘treat her right’ side but ALSO give her a reason to be intrigued and excited about being with you. Respect yourself. Be confident. Actually, if you’re consciously trying to be confident, it will probably look like an act. Instead, get in the habit of being comfortable and feeling good wherever you are… that is what confidence is all about.

And remember: if you think this is more than what a woman should want in a man, be honest to yourself about what you find attractive in a woman (other than looks).