Not intending to hurt doesn't take away the hurt

In My Humble Opinion
81

We all get what you are saying. You feel that people who use wheelchairs are not treated as inherent equals in society. That they are often unfairly and incorrectly prejudged as being less capable than a person who is not wheelchair. Am I incorrect about this?

Some people, like yourself apparently, need special parking accommodation but do not need help opening doors or getting into hot tubs. Some people do not need special parking, but do need help opening doors or getting into hot tubs. And some people can open their own doors or get into their own hot tubs but the process is easier with some help.

Pushy people who won’t take no for an answer are always annoying. But I don’t think there is anything wrong with offering to help someone. Lots of people in wheelchairs are not in them permanently. They might not all have acquired the skill set you have. In addition, lots of people might not have the comfortableness asking strangers for help when they truly do need it that you do. Lots of people are shy, and it’s generally a lot less awkward to offer help than it is to ask for it.

82

I’m still wondering…if it’s not simple agreement you’re looking for, what is it?

I first posted an experience that was an attempt to express empathy.

Then I wrote a post that had a list of all the things you could have said.

Is that something that you care for? Because you haven’t responded to anything except the comments that rile you up.

Or is it that you just want all of us to say, “Yep, the guy is a jerk alrighty. Big ups to you.”

Sometimes I create threads when life is just annoying the hell out of me for whatever reason. I go to the Pit for that. Often I’ll get sympathy, but inevitably someone there challenges me to rethink my position. I don’t like that very much, but sometimes it’s needed. The Devil always has his side of the story.

When I’m looking for advice or a different perspective on a situation that keeps popping up, I post in this forum. If the advise isn’t helpful, I just ignore it (usually).

I’m not seeing what you’re aiming to get out of this thread, except to beat us over the head with yet another “Angry Wheelchair Guy” story. If it’s just a public service announcement, telling us what NOT to do, then it doesn’t belong in either forum. But in the Mindless Whatever thread.

If a black poster did what you’ve been doing, there would be a small number of people (probably me, ha!) who’d be consistently sympathetic, but the vast majority would tell you to quit complaining. Even if you have valid complaints. It’s kind of like if we were all interacting in the real world, and all it seemed you wanted to talk about was wheelchair/disability issues. Well, who appointed you spokesperson for the disabled? There are other disabled people here. Did they elect you?

That said, I’ll retract my “grow a thicker skin” comment. I know that’s a pain in the ass remark and just calls for defensiveness.

83

Perhaps I’ve missed something, but I’m seeing:

  • an OP in which the grievance is that the person expressed himself in an extremely condescending way;
  • a further post in which the grievance is that the person who was ostensibly “helping” completely ignored jamie’s stated wishes (as disabled people’s stated wishes often go ignored) and actually made things more difficult for him.

Neither of those are issues with being helped. They’re issues with being condescended to.

84

I still have trouble imagining that the guy in jacuzzi meant his comment as condescending. Naive and foolish, perhaps, but I’m guessing he was an older gent who really thought he was being uplifting and positive.

85

You can think you’re being uplifting and positive AND in reality be condescending at the same time. You’re confusing motive with actual effect.

86

Since when is Magiver your “dear”?

87

No I’m not confused. That is actually my point, which is part of his OP. I think motive is an important consideration and does mitigate the hurt.

88

For a one time situation perhaps, but if the condescension is frequent or constant, no, it doesn’t. You see, if someone is condescending once perhaps it is ignorance but when they are that way continually it’s an inability to empathize with the other.

This is one of the reasons my spouse stopped going to church - he was tired of being placed in the role of “oh, you poor thing!”, and being an object that people could use to get Jesus Points by doing what they thought were helpful things, when all he wanted to be was an equal adult participating in all the activities he was capable of participating in. Instead, he was always relegated to the “special” area, or with the children, or the daft elderly, and told no, he couldn’t do this or that because he might get hurt or they didn’t want to trouble him… the end result was him literally sitting on the sidelines unable to be part of anything going on.

Instead, he started going to Irish social dances. He can’t dance, but they let him help set up and take down and he could talk to people in adult conversations and meet girls and, being a musician, would play sets and wound up fully engaged in what was going on - worked out well, too, that’s where we met.

The difference is one group had a pre-defined role for him and wouldn’t let him step out of it, the other group let him find his own way to fit in. The church people were well-meaning but despite their intentions and motivations they actually wound up be quite cruel by stifling a grown man and treating him as either a child or someone in dementia.

89

The thing about educating folks on how to treat the disabled is that it varies from one disabled person to the next. I think folks are plenty educated, I just think they’re not sure how this particular person is going to react. I have never seen anyone treat the disabled with anything but compassion. Perhaps in their uncertainty to attempt to make the way a little easier in the world for these folks, they fumble, they unwittingly say and do things that are found offensive. Then, there are folks who don’t do anything, don’t acknowledge the disability at all, and are still regarded as offensive. Folks sometimes just don’t know which approach to take because the personal preferences of each disabled person varies from person-to-person. I think in most cases, folks mean well, but you’re always going to come across some jerk, but that’s true whether you’re disabled or not, all of us face rudeness and offensiveness. In the end, you cannot change the behavior of folks, you can only change your own. You’re disability does not define who you are or your worth, that comes from within. It’s your choice to allow these offenses to consume you, or find a more positive way to direct your energy and passions.

90

I agree that the guy was condescending and offensive - but why not just let it roll (no pun intended) off your back? Don’t give other people the power to ruin your day.

To quote the great Jason Street: “Wheelchair always wins.”

91

Heh.

'And how did Tim behave? asked Mrs. Cratchitt… ‘As good as gold,’ said Bob, ‘and better. Somehow he gets thoughtful, sitting by himself so much, and thinks the strangest things you ever heard. He told me, coming home, that he hoped the people saw him in church, because he was a cripple, and it might be pleasant to them to remember, upon Christmas Day, who made lame beggars walk, and blind men see.’

You know, of course, if they get enough points they get a toaster oven.

92

I have. But I don’t want usurp Jamie’s thread with the tales. There are people out there who are downright vicious towards the disabled.

Part of the problem with combating the social obstacles of the disabled, which sometimes are worse than the physical obstacles, are beliefs such as yours - well meaning, but in error - that there isn’t a problem. You don’t mean to, but you’re discounting not only Jamie’s experience, but that of other disabled people, and those close to them such as myself, the spouse of a disabled person. Yes, there ARE people, plenty of them, who do NOT treat the disabled with compassion.

93

Yeah, yeah, yeah…

Some women are mortally offended if a man opens a door for them, choosing to see it as misogyny. Some old people are offended if you offer to help them with their groceries, when they need to still feel capable. Fat people are hurt if you direct them to a chair more likely to bear their weight, though your intent is to save them the embarrassment of it snapping under them. Tall people tire of tall jokes, and being asked to reach for things, they didn’t choose to be tall. Young looking persons are mortally offended to be taken for teenagers when they are, in fact, twenty somethings. Persons with disabled relatives are hurt by the casual use of the word, ‘retarded’. Person with tattoos doesn’t get a call back for a job interview, they are obviously prejudiced against tattoos. In every minority community there are persons who see slights at every turn, even where none exist. They go through life failing and blaming that failure on the unfairness of the world toward their ethnicity.

Does any of this mean that people are not; misogynist, ageist, prejudiced? Of course not.

Nobody goes through life without challenges to face. It’s all too easy to project your issues on people who are simply innocently doing something unthinking.

This is the very reason we can’t have a discussion with you about any of this, you’ve described yourself perfectly, as you come off on this board anyway, in this sentence.

Life is too short to take offense so easily. If confrontation and anger are what makes you feel alive, have at it. But people tire of the company of ‘one note’ songs pretty quick. We all know someone with a single pet issue. It’s the centre of their world, they are a martyr to it.

Climb down from that cross and join the rest of us flawed beings, who sometimes don’t say the ‘right’ thing, are sometimes put off by the unthinking comments and actions of others, without getting all butt hurt over every little thing.

Or do you believe that your chair means you’ve never said anything that offended anyone? Or, unthinkingly or unknowingly hurt someones feeling with words or actions. Or are you also offended that the world chooses not to call you on it, when you do, because you’re in a chair?

Did you even give a shit about people in chairs/with disabilities before you became one?

There is no shortage of things for any person to take offense at, should they feel to. We could all be as hypersensitive as you, over every perceived slight or innocent comment, we simply choose not to.

If you want to stew in discontent, nothing we will ever say will reach you. Being happy is a choice.

94

This is exactly what I want to say. Jamie does demand some accommodations but they’re not the same accommodations that other people using wheelchairs might want or need and he resents it when people don’t automatically know which ones he wants and which ones he doesn’t.

Yeah, the guy in the hot tub might have been weird and condescending. (Then again, he just saw another handicapped person who did need all kinds of assistance, so I’m not sure how much to hold against him.)

But there’s no call to be offended when someone does nothing except hold the door open for you. He’s being nice, nothing more.

95

Being a jerk when someone tries to hold open a door for you is the definition of asshole, whether in a wheelchair or not.

96

jamiemcgarry, I am not handicapped but I have spent quite a bit of time on crutches. What you are talking about, the frequency of people noting the handicap and commenting, is truly annoying. Every door, elevator, stair-step and curb was an opportunity for someone it earn their Boy Scout points for the day and I got tired of it pretty quickly. Besides the extra effort involved in navigating obstacles I also had to navigate odd social situations like replying to offers of help or trying to guess if that guy will in front of me will be holding the door like normal or will he try to do something special for me. That said, I know that I am not that friendly of a person and I don’t like people trying to help me beyond common courtesy so a large part of my annoyance is my own personality.

Most people want to be helpful to those around them, they just don’t know how, or if, they should help you in your unique individual case. So sometimes mistakes are made. There is a small set of clueless people who just want to score points for being “nice” and they feel like they get to define what being nice is. If they can’t find a handicapped person to open the door for they will be giving someone “frontsies” in traffic, offering advice on how to lose weight or telling you how to raise your kids. Sounds like you encountered the latter. Feel free to tell them to mind their own business but you will never convince them they are doing anything other than being helpful.

97

Without repeating myself or going over posts Ive already posted, I will say that I have ABSOLUTELY no issue whatsoever with anyone acknowledging my disability. You have chosen not to read my words if you are coming to this conclusion. I WANT people to acknowledge my disability, I am proud of my life with my disability. What I DO dislike, however, is the MANNER in which people interact with me. If you are unable to discern between the two concepts, I can do nothing further to help explain this for you. And I keep saying that the point of me sharing this story wasn’t for any specific hardship in the story itself, but rather in the frequency with which these types of incidences happen. I am well equipped for dealing with such “stupidities” I encounter on a regular basis. However, like all of you, I am human and every now and then, due to many factors, it can sometimes be a bit much. AND, I will ask for help when I need it. I will not struggle with something out of some misplaced sense of pride. No, if I need help, I will ask. Anyone who has ever seen me in the gym knows this. I feel like I ask TOO MUCH out of people when I’m there.
And, the first sentence in the OP, the guy was staring at a man in a wheelchair, unhindered by any “packages in his lap” or any other hindrances. He was watching a man in a bathing suit wheel up to a jacuzzi to get in. In was in no way any kind of situation where it was “common courtesy” to offer the man help. There was no struggle, no difficulty with anything. It was simply BECAUSE of the wheelchair and nothing more.

98

He assumed a person in a wheelchair might need assistance. Which is a reasonable assumption to make, because if they didn’t need assistance, they wouldn’t be in a wheelchair.

99

You sound like a real gem. Opening the door for someone or letting then into traffic is equal to telling someone how to lose weight or how to raise their kids? Wow.

100

I’m a feminist of the “please don’t hold doors for me because I’m female” era. I hold doors for everyone - male, female, children, people with packages in their hands, able bodied, disabled - when it seems like its more convenient for me to open the door and let them go through first - doesn’t matter who is coming behind me. I enjoy it when others do the same - its NICE when someone holds the door for you when your hands are full, or just when its less awkward for us both - its a friendly gesture regardless.

Once in a while I’ll get one of those guys who takes the door from me when I’ve arrived first and insists I go first. Its patronizing. Its silly. It makes my gender the focus of the pragmatic process of entering and exiting buildings. Philosophically, its the sort of thing I despise. And I let him take the door from me, go through first, smile and say “thank you.” Then either promptly forget, or reflect with amusement on the old fashionedness of the gesture.

I used to get pissy about it. But it doesn’t do me any good to waste that emotional energy and unless I am ready to take someone to task for behavior they meant as polite - which would be rude of me to do - I’m not going to correct it. I can control my reaction to their behavior - it can be negative, positive or neutral. Negative isn’t a useful reaction.

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”