I’m sorry for your loss, but I too am having trouble following your reasoning. Let’s say you do look on his computer and find something - are you going to the police then? How is it less suspicious then? If you aren’t then you might as well just come right out and say you don’t care about the (potential) victim you’re just curious if he really did it.
Which isn’t going to get you much more in the sympathy column.
If you really are afraid the police would build a case out of nothing then contact a lawyer on how to proceed
I’m actually curious as to the legal implications of not ‘ratting’ out a friend in a situation like this (prior to the suicide). I know that people who are considered mandated reporters (social workers, teachers, etc) are legally obligated to report things like this, but are every day people? I would think that there’s no law against not reporting him. But given the nature of his crime, socially the person might be completely dog-piled on for not doing what was morally right.
I thought it was more of a :smack: but did not want to draw attention to it.
Don’t go on the computer. Who knows, maybe they will eventually get to it, see activity on it after your friend passed, and start asking questions about who had access to it? Then you’d really be in trouble.
Talk to a lawyer ASAP. You need to share this information, but I agree you should probably do it with the help of a lawyer.
Wow that was messed up. (the post you quoted, not the :dubious: face)
I’m an attorney and I’ve read this entire thread. Unless you suspect that some child has been harmed or that a homicide occurred, there’s no reason to consult with an attorney. He probably couldn’t help you anymore than I can.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I struggle to understand how you became close friends with Dave in the first place, but I won’t belabor the point.
It’s not clear to me whether you actually saw cp or just suspected he had it. Let’s take the worst case hypothetical: you did tech support on his machine in the past and *actually saw *the illegal material, but failed to report Dave to the police. If it makes you feel better, I’m pretty sure there is no legal requirement to report the existence of cp except for mandated child abuse reporters–like cops, nurses, therapists, etc. The *vast *majority of people would report it anyway, because it’s the right thing to do, but that doesn’t mean you were legally obliged to do so yourself. However, despite the fact that you wouldn’t have broken any laws, keeping mum could still be considered a moral failing if the cops/judge find out about it. A judge could take away your ability to see your kids, if you’re the kind of person who associates with a known pedophile and doesn’t report their massive kiddie porn collection to the cops. But if the judge doesn’t find out you had this information, he wouldn’t have a reason to take away your kids.
So, if you take this hypothetical as writ, remember that you’re under no legal obligation to volunteer information to the police. And morally, I think it’d be pretty freaking pointless to report it NOW. If you wouldn’t have reported it when you first encountered it, what benefit can possibly come of doing so now? Don’t go near his computer or his house, unless accompanied by his next of kin (to help her go through belongings, or whatever). Don’t touch the computer. Even if you don’t change anything on the pc, they may be able to see that it was accessed after his death, and you could be charged with obstruction. Talk to a lawyer only if the police bring you in for questioning. No good can EVER come of volunteering self-incriminating information–even if the only thing you’re “guilty” of is the moral failure to report a crime committed by someone else, social ostracism or loss of custody could result because hey, it’s a pedophile and nobody said humanity was rational about this shit.
Of course, if you never actually saw the material in question, you had even less of a moral obligation to do anything. Either way, there’s no reason to look at his computer NOW. It can only hurt you to do so. Ask yourself this question: **is your need to know why Dave killed himself worth giving up custody of your children? **If so, then dive right in. If not, then stay the fuck away.
A hypothetical mandated reporter in this situation would deserve to lose contact with their children. In fact, they would deserve to get jail time. But if you aren’t one, then you don’t deserve the jail time at least.
I really think it’s a bad idea to check Dave’s computer. The police will be very suspicious of your motives if you do. You should tell them about the email, but stay away from the computer.
If you’ve actually read this thread, why in the world would you have written that second sentence? Reading comprehension must not be part of the bar exam.
As a person left behind by a suicide (although for entirely different reasons) let me just say that holding conflicting emotions simultaneously about the suicide is entirely common and normal. How you feel is how you feel: angry, sad, relieved, horrified, whatever.
I experienced the same thing in college, when I broke down a housemate’s door, and saw him hanging there, naked. He didn’t put a note on the door, but he’d been missing for a while. I was so shaken, I couldn’t even tell the cops what our address was at first. And you’re right, the image will never go away. It’s been 47 years, and I still remember that image like it was yesterday.
If you have some kind of crisis hotline where you live, I strongly suggest calling it. They can really help. And stay close with his sister; you need each other.
Ok, I’m too drunk to type on my phone, so I will keep this update short.
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There was a letter, he mailed it to his sister, I read it tonight. I understand now why he thought his death was the only way, but I still think there were better ways.
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As a result, I won’t be looking at the computer. You all were right on that one. I’m glad I listened.
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My man didn’t let me down. He did cross the line, but not only did he pull back, he did the best he could to try and make it right. More details when I’m sober and have a real keyboard.
SAY NOTHING FURTHER WITHOUT CONSULTING A LAWYER
Pedo brings out the worst paranoia I’ve seen. I fear that if they have a case land in their laps, they will try to nail everyone in sight - and you are the only one insight.
My sympathies for your loss. You are a kind person to stand by a friend as you did.
I’m truly sorry you ignored the sign on the door. No one should ever see a friend like that.
OK, can’t wait till you sober up.
My best friend took his own life back in '98.
Paul had tried it once before.
Like your friend “Dave”, Paul had some pretty dark thoughts. At the age of 27, he’d just entered into his first serious relationship. I’ll always remember visiting him at the mental health clinic after his first suicide attempt.
As we played some table tennis at the clinic, he described to me the romantic walks he and his new girlfriend had taken on the beach, and the way that some small nasty part of his mind was constantly ruining the best moments of his life by putting vivid visions into his mind of what it would be like to grab the nearest fence paling and bash her brains out.
He was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
I doubt that Paul could ever have done such a thing. And though I never met him, I doubt that your friend “Dave” would have ever acted on his darkest thoughts and molested a child.
You live in your mind. Paul’s mind wasn’t a nice place to be, and apparently Dave’s wasn’t either.
So yeah, I for one am not judging your friend for having thoughts that he couldn’t control, and that he never acted upon.
Mourn him. Because his darkest thoughts weren’t the sum of his being, no matter how much they tormented him.
RIP to your friend Dave. And I’ll always miss Paul.
I typed this out last night, but held back on the hitting the post button until I could read it this morning and see if it even made sense. I’ve edited it a bit for clarity and to protect the not-so-innocent.
Someone upthread wondered how me and Dave became friends in the first place. And that is an awesome story, one I can only tell drunk, and the exact thing I want to talk about right now.
Picture it: A smallish town in northwestern Canada, nineteen something something. I had recently graduated high school, and was working over the summer before I left for university in the fall. Now, I was a rebel as far as that town went, having gone vegetarian six months before. People were surprising accepting of this, and I thought that maybe that town wasn’t as bad as I thought. So I came out of the closet as a bisexual man, and found out how wrong I was.
I was sparkng a joint behind a bar one evening, quietly minding my own business. The wind was being a bitch while I was trying to get it lit, so I didn’t even see these three dudes until they were right in my face. The one in the middle loudly informed me that they didn’t want anyone “of your type” in this town. I didn’t even get a chance to ask WTF they meant before they started hitting me. I remember trying and being unable to escape. I remember something hard hitting me in the head, and realising that was the ground. I remember the boots.
Then, when things were looking pretty fucking bad, I heard a different voice calling out these three dudes who were beating the shit out of me. Dave, being the guy that he was, put himself right in the middle of it and broke it up. (He tells this story much better than I do, makes himself sound like an action movie hero ) Then he waited with me while I was lying on the ground bleeding and terrified until the ambulance showed up, the whole time reassuring me that I was going to be OK.
He came and visited me in the hospital the next day, and it turned out despite our age gap (he was seven years older than me, which is huge when you’re a teen) we had a lot of shared interests and geeky hobbies. He introduced me to GURPS, I introduced him to the white wolf RPG’s. We stayed in touch while I was away at school, and when I came back, we became close friends. Despite that, I was still shocked when the whole child porn thing went down. And when everyone else abandoned him, I stayed. Because if it wasn’t for that man, I probably would have been crippled that night, if not outright killed. He could have kept walking. Who the fuck tangles with three big drunk dudes over a stranger? Dave did.
So that’s who I raise a glass to tonight. Not the troubled adult he became, but that person who risked his own neck for a complete stranger. and then comforted him while he was crying in the dirt.
I’m not sure what comes after death. I’ve always said “I doubt there’s anything, but I kinda hope I’m wrong”. Whatever does lie beyond through, I hope Dave finds peace there.
^ Which just goes to show that, like everyone else, he was a complex mix of good and bad. Granted, some of his bad was pretty damn bad, but clearly there was also good in him.
My condolences.
I showed Dave’s sister this thread last night, and she wanted me to mention that you all seem like a great group of people, and she’s glad that someone other than the two of us isn’t outright celebrating Dave’s death. She is somewhat choked at me though, as I didn’t give her a name. She informed me in no uncertain terms that she is much more than Dave’s sister, and she picked the name Emily to be called from here on in.
Now, I know I promised more details, but Emily has an appointment with a lawyer this morning, and I’m going to have to break that promise until she’s spoken with her . I’m not trying to be a tease, but sorry, making sure that Dave didn’t kill himself for nothing is more important to me right now. I do promise to share whatever information the lawyer agrees is appropriate.
A couple of replies to things I missed yesterday …
I have to admit I laughed when I saw the pun in there. This probably makes me a bad person, but Dave and I were always fans of wildly inappropriate jokes. He would have laughed too.
Last night I typed up a nice, pit-worthy reply to this. I read it this morning, cringed, and deleted it. You were absolutely right to call me on this. I should have been more clear. It wasn’t purely morbid curiosity that made me want to look through that computer. I needed to know if there was a victim. I could have lived with never knowing why. I couldn’t have lived with knowing that he left a victim behind.
Also, and this one is mighty selfish, I wasn’t willing to risk the cops trying to pin shit on me if there wasn’t a real victim to protect or rescue. I was willing to risk it if there was.
I’ll ignore the part where you imply that I deserve to lose my contact with my children because I didn’t play the role of police informer when not legally required. Now, I’m not going to defend his actions, but the whole time I knew him, I never believed he was a danger to anyone else. If that had changed, I would have ratted him out, and he knew it.
And for the record, I never saw any illegal material. He had damn near confessed to having it at times, and I knew where there was an encrypted container on his hard drive, but I managed to maintain at least some plausible deniability.
That said … thank you for calling me out in such blunt terms. The part you put in bold really spoke to me. This thing seems so big sometimes, it’s hard to put things in perspective. When put in simple terms, the choice was a lot easier. Thank you.
YOu clearly have not read the entire thread - the OP in the original post was very clear about the suspicions based on the email that was recieved and prior conversations with the decedant.
Due to the concerns of ‘possibly’ being seen as complicant (no matter how remote) and the current situation with divorce and custody of children - consulting an attorney on the best way to move forward is the prudent thing to do.
You are not one - I challenge you to post anything - anywhere - to convince me otherwise.
Your last sentence is demonstrably false - I would say tht almost ANYONE could help the OP more than you.
Maybe you should go pray and tell the OP that the decedant is in a better place and that god has a plan ? think that will help any?
Mithrander - you have my sympathies on the loss of your friend -
As a lawyer, I disagree with **pchaos. ** I’m more concerned with the OP’s access to a computer that might have child porn on it, then failing to report suspicions when he really didn’t know any child was in danger. Plus, as simster points out, there are ways this could screw up his divorce Maybe it’s nothing to worry about, but with the stakes so high, it’s worth an hour of consultation. Despite my fascination with this thread, any lawyer would advise Mithrander to not post another word.