On how older women treat younger people of the same gender [edited title]

In My Humble Opinion
1

Okay, this story on Slate.com made me think about this topic. The author doesn’t come right out and say it, but it sounds like The View crew felt really threatend by Lisa Ling, and by ANY fellow female host younger and more attractive than themselves. (And let’s face it, that’s not all that hard to find.)

So, this got me to thinking. Have any fellow dopers noticed this kind of pack behavior by older women? I have certainly noticed it from younger women - a group consensus usually seems to form, and woe betide anyone who runs afoul of the group. This is in contrast to men, who (certain envionments, like prison, excepted) seem to be more independant in how they deal with other people.
The specific situation I’m thinking of was a student trip to Mexico, with people aged 19-25. The women outnumbered the men by about 3 to 1. I know this is kind of scanty info to draw conclusions from, but, well, hence this thread. I’m interested specifically, in whether the behavior I witnessed is unique to women, and constant throughout their lives.

2

And of course, I fucked up the subject line. That should be “On how older women treat younger people of the same gender.”

3

It happens where I work, to a certain extent. It’s amazing how fast those sorts of feeding frenzies blow up.

4

It happens to me (young, attractive, early 30’s) and The Women (40’s-60’s) totally banish me from their cute little lunches on Fridays. (Mostly clerk-positions).

I would guess they are probably a bit miffed that I’m younger and educated and moving up the ladder.

I actually don’t mind that. I’d rather go to lunch with the male engineers & accountants instead.:wink:

5

I don’t agree with the part about men behaving any different, actually. I am one of the youngest in my office, and I can’t tell there has been one “get - together” where the older cow-orkers have seen it fit to invite us “kids”, even if we have equivallent positions in the company.

6

Oh wow,I don’t doubt it exists, but I haven’t seen this behaviour at all. But maybe this has to do with where I work. I teach preschool, we are all women, and we all of us pretty much work together. The age range of teachers (there are 45 of us) goes from 21 to early 70’s. Probably most of us are 40’s, with a couple 50’s and 60’s. I actually enjoy seeing young women join our staff, and I like hanging out with young women, learning about their lives, talking to them about their dreams, even looking at their cute clothes.

7

Oh, my God, yes. This is a consistent problem for me. I cannot seem to get along with most women in their late 30s / early 40s, even into the late 50s. I have found a really nasty, catty, evil attitude to be clearly present when I deal with these women in both professional and social settings. It’s happened far too much to be purely coincidental. I used to think that I was being too sensitive or projecting or something; but nah, these are just nasty, jealous old broads.

For the record, I’m 5’9", 123 lbs., used to do commercials and model, so I’m not too bad-looking. I’m 40, but I look like I’m in my early 20s (check my photo on the Dopers’ Photo Page if you want), and I also present a lot younger.

These women, not only from how they react to me but by what they say to me (as in, “Oh, Jesus, I was a senior in high school in the 70s, you weren’t even born yet…”), show me that they think I’m much younger than I am and therefore The Enemy.

From my personal experience, a lot of women from about 35 to 55 are still young enough to be relatively vain, but old enough to see that they just may be on the other side of what our culture dictates as “pretty” or “desirable”.

Yeah, they’re a bitch (pun intended) to deal with. It’s really too bad, because as women, our greatest strength should be sticking together and helping each other, especially professionally. Too bad for us, I guess. I think there’s a book out about this called Catfight, which I’m very interested in checking out.

Anyway, I find that I usually get along better with men of any age, so I stick with them.

8

I will preface my response with a caveat: I am probably not in-step with most other women of my age group, and probably never have been to any great extent. I’ve never had many female friends, feeling more comfortable with guys, but that may be mostly because I grew up with 4 brothers and no sister! I’ll also add that generalizations about any group tend to set my teeth on edge, so …

Naturally I have observed this sort of behavior, but in all honesty just don’t pay it too much mind. I can say from personal experience in myself that perimenopause kind of loosens one up to a certain extent, in that the fluctuating hormones can sometimes cause me to be not as inhibited as I possibly should be or rather I’ll say something without thinking of the consequences first! LOL Sort of a reverse adolesence (if that is misspelled, I apologize, I can’t think of how to spell it right now!). Perhaps this -may- be a cause for what can be perceived to be “bitchiness” in women of a “certain age,” although YMMV.

9

I don’t deal with this at all at work where it’s mostly older women. I do get, “oh geez, you probably weren’t even born then!” occasionally during a conversation, but it’s never said in a spiteful manner. I’ve never been treated badly, or excluded. For the record I’m 26 and I’m referring to women in their 40s and 50s. Until I correct them, though, they think I’m younger (late teens/early 20s.)

Actually, my workplace is pretty neat in that although gossiping does happen, everyone seems to get along quite nicely (young, old, different races and religions, etc.) It’s nice to watch everyone interact and get along like that.

10

I don’t personally have any problem with women who are older or younger than me. I mean, I don’t really care how old or young they are, as long as they are fun to talk to and don’t have a stick up their butts. If they are interested in the things I like, then why wouldn’t I enjoy socializing with them?

I do think that youth, whether real or perceived, is not really the root of the problem for some of these women—it’s the element of liveliness. I don’t usually have any problems interacting with older women who are still excited about life and are full of new interests and are active in their lives, because I like to at least try to be that way myself.

On the other hand, I get more problems from women who are stuck in a rut or feel bitter or whatever. I have a tendency to talk about thngs like art, politics or travel, and if they don’t know what I’m talking about, they dislike talking to me. And I won’t change my topics of conversation to suit them. Jerry Springer and useless gossip depress me.

11

As a bartender, I find that I have to be VERY charming to older women or they’ll think that

a.) I’m trying to steal their man, or

b.) I’m not worth tipping because “she makes all her money off men anyway!”

Premise A actually occurs with women of all ages, but I’ve noticed that the older the woman is, the more pronounced the suspicion is. (For the record, I don’t want anyone’s 50-year-old husband. Please.)

Outside of work, I haven’t really observed this phenomenon…but then, I LIVE at work. So who’s to say? :slight_smile:

A friend of mine is a very beautiful 25-year-old elementary school teacher, however, and apparently most of the dried-up prunes she works with have Major Issues with her. They don’t invite her to lunch, the exclude her from casual conversations, and they pretty much try to boycott her as much as possible.

Women are weird. shrug Just cuz I am one doesn’t mean I have a clue.

12

Well said yosemitebabe.

Maybe the older ladies of the View have a bit of a stick up their butts. But then so much of television programming revolves around youth and beauty etc etc. By keeping their little henhouse chick-free, the old biddies perhaps enjoy a kind of vibe on their show which they otherwise would not have. I dunno.

More than half my lifetime ago, when I was in late teens early 20’s, it felt so much easier to hang out with the guys. I was suspicious of women in general, saw them as two-faced and underhanded compared to men, who seemed so easygoing, straightforward and upfront. As I grew up and got over myself, I realized it was not nearly that simple; I then developed some very close, satisfying friendships with women.

I know that some older women probably really are insecure and jealous of younger ladies, anyone who worries about losing their 50 year old husband to a bartender has serious issues.
Some older women may act patronizing towards as well. However, a confident younger woman who speaks and acts as if she has got life all figured out can push buttons within her older counterpart, who has already been there and knows all too well what the ‘real deal’ is. It all goes back to what yosemitebabe said about sticks up butts. Those younger women who feel excluded from lunch might take a look at themselves and their demeanor.

13

I agree with everything Caprese said. We get along just fine. I disagree with the "competion remarks’, younger women and older women are not after the same men.

14

It’s not a coincidence, my dear. How you doin’? :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

15

I see what you mean . . . meow!

Mmm hmmm. I’m sure you’re right.

I’d bet the “dried up prunes” who are not nice to younger ladies had this same attitude when *they *were the youngsters. Bitch pretty much seems lifelong. Maybe the young women who have bad experiences with older female coworkers have just been unlucky in working with a bunch of bitches, so they form generalizations about a group of people.

16

I have felt this same way since I was a very young girl. Im glad to know finally that Im not the only one.

Ive never worked anywhere that had this problem, mostly because I havent worked too many places. I have tended to be among the younger women in my jobs, and I look even younger (I never went outside, so I have little sun damage), so I dont get a lot of credit and respect, but thats from both men and women.

17

Hey, Lizard! :smiley: Thanks for the kind words/flirt/etc. (That pic is actually over a year old… I’ve lost weight since then. I’m not trolling for a compliment; but weight loss is a big deal to me…!).

Doin’ fine, thanks. I’m tellin’ ya, I saw this thread and thought: “Yeah, that’s something that, unfortunately, I know all about.”

It really is too bad that, in my opinion and experience, women can’t learn to stick together better. For what it’s worth, I still give other women the benefit of the doubt (at least on the outside; I certainly may be thinking “Jeez, what a bitchula!”), but I find that I am much more guarded in my dealings with them than I used to be, as I am waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop.

18

Honestly, I do not set out to disrespect any woman, of any age, unless she gives me ample reason…nor am I saying that it’s realistic that I will make off with anyone’s 50-year-old husband…but that doesn’t change certain womens’ perception of the situation. This is, of course, a very insecure woman…but my point is that there are a LOT of insecure women out there…and the result can be an unmitigated bitch.

In other words, there are a lot of women out there with “serious issues.”

Of course, I agree with you, Caprese, about how irritating any “know-it-all” can be…but that applies to older women, too. Nobody wants to be patronized, or patted on the head, because of their youth…nor is youth, by itself, a reason to disregard anyone’s opinions or intelligence. (And I am not directing this at you personally. :))

Having said all that, I do wish that women overall could somehow bridge the gap, swallow their insecurities, and become better allies. A good female friend is worth her weight in gold, regardless of her age.

I wish, like Creaky, that I had more of them.

19

Hmm, maybe it is as AlaItalia says, once an insecure bitch, always an insecure bitch. I dunno. I agree that this situation is sad, and that we as females should be better allies.

Obviously youth is fleeting and looks are only skin deep.
The qualities within you are the ones that not only matter the most now, but will serve you the best later in life.

I actually very much admire most of the younger women I know, they are strong, intelligent and seem a lot more together than I was at that age. But I can’t help but worry about them if they occasionally see things only in black and white, while I, having experienced it, know about the grey.
No offense taken, Audrey, and I will certainly endeavor to respect all younger ladies and withold too many pats on the head! :slight_smile:

20

Bitch is in the eye of the beholder…

The few episodes of The View I watched, I thought Lisa Ling was the one being the Bitch. She obviously didn’t fit in, but it wasn’t an age thing, it was an attitude thing. I saw one episode where they were talking about racism, and since Lisa Ling had never felt victimized by racism, she had the gall to say that Starr Jones’ experiences were in her imagination. Bitch. Another episode where Lisa Ling said the women’s movement had done more harm than good - she certainly felt she’d be in the same place without the pioneering work of the feminists of the 1960s and 1970s. Possibly, not the proper thing to say to Ms. Walters - who actually fought the battles that got Lisa Ling her job. Clueless bitch.

I’ve been treated poorly at work by older women, by younger women, by older and younger men. And I’ve been treated well by older women, younger women, and older and younger men. Sometimes, it is the other person (I worked for a woman who couldn’t stand me, and did seem threatened), and sometimes, it was indeed me (like a lot of new bright college grads, I arrived in the work world convinced I was brighter and more qualified than everyone else, and did, on occation and in retrospect, come off as a bitch). And sometimes, it is the work place – too many office environments are run like high school.

And I have seen men do this to other men. There is a guy I work with right now who is regularly diss’d by everyone he works with - especially the guys.