I’m an introvert and I’m not easily bored. Social skills are indeed something you learn and practice and get better at.
Another suggestion for Rattle and Hum is when you’re talking to people, listen and pay attention. If you ask someone a question, listen to their answer, and pay attention to what they’re saying and how they’re saying it. A lot of people spend a lot of time in a conversation just thinking about what they’re going to say, rather than paying attention to the person they’re talking to.
I think this is where the disconnect is. You are dismissing everything you don’t find personally interesting as the product of people who are “boring or boorish”. This is why people suspect introverts of basically just being quiet assholes. It’s this attitude of “I am just too cool and deep to talk to normal people and I oughtn’t be expected to fake it. You don’t know how hard it is to be like me”. Obviously, you aren’t going that far, but I think a fair number of self-proclaimed introverts do, and they really leave a bad taste in people’s mouths.
“Boorish” is a term that has a fairly objective definition. “Boring” is by nature subjective, and when I use it, it means things that are boring to me. Those same things might be fascinating to the next person.
Did you miss the part where I said that me not making more of an effort is lazy and selfish? I have had feedback more than once that I am aloof, and while I acknowledge that I may have the appearance of aloofness, it is not because I think I am better than other people, but just that I am not especially interested in them. There is a difference which may be subtle (although I don’t think so), but it is a real difference nonetheless. There are people who are in many ways objectively more admirable than me, in whom I am not interested in having a conversation or even noting their existence. Feel free to judge me harshly for this shortcoming.
Actually, I wouldn’t be participating in this thread if I didn’t care a little. People assume so much about people who don’t talk much. In my case, for example, my elder sister talked (and still talks) so much that no-one else can make any meaningful contribution to the conversation. So I learned at an early age to not even try to talk. After being around that for 15 years or so, the habit was pretty deeply entrenched by the time she left the house. Would you guess that if you met me and noted that I wasn’t talking much? Probably not. You would just assume I was a quiet asshole, I guess.
Roddy
I think you’ve described yourself really well here, and I definitely know people that are similar to you (and I am a bit that way myself). But I’m not sure you are describing an introverted/extroverted difference here.
It sounds like you have more interest in engaging with people in an intellectual way rather than a social way. And I think both introverted and extroverted people can be that way.
This is great advice. Firstly, it works. Secondly, it takes the pressure off of the real you to be someone else’s version of interesting, and stops you from feeling like you’re prostituting yourself. Thirdly, it turns the whole thing into something like a game, which means that you might actually get some fun out of it.
That describes my husband in a nutshell. He’s the “weird” one in his family because he just doesn’t jump into the fray; consequently, his family sees him as part snob and part “Who the F Do You Think You Are That You Should Get Special Treatment?”
OTOH I jump right in there because I like competition
I’ve reread this thread, and I’m still on the fence as to introvert vs. extrovert vs. what One Love originally said, which, as you know, mostly resonates with me.
The last two times I’'ve taken the Myers-Briggs test I’ve come right between the Extrovert/Introvert as well as the Perceiving/Judging. I guess it depends on my mood? There are some days where I can be very chatty about nothing in particular, and I’ll play it out with my coworkers or play it out online, either here on the Dope or elsewhere. There are more days, though, where I’m perfectly content keeping my own counsel because, if I start talking at work about something I read online, say, I’ll be met with a bunch of blank looks and once again I’ll have to explain there’s a site called X where you can read Y, etc (most of my coworkers aren’t internet-savvy, which is yet ANOTHER difference between me and them). Or I’ll be more in a mood to read/listen whether it’s online or in person.
So I guess, with me, extroversion/introversion is more of a fluid thing. It’s true that constantly being around people drains me to no end. OTOH I love being “on” when I’m in the mood to do so.
Seriously, I hate hate hate HATE being, in essence, accused of not doing my part to make the evening more enjoyable for three reasons.
It’s really fucking rude to point out what you consider someone’s deficiencies or lack of manners in public.
I can’t reply honestly, because if I say, “Well, I’d talk if you’d STFU up for five seconds and let me get a word in,” or “I don’t know any of the people, places, or things you’ve all been yapping about all night and at this point I’m just smiling and nodding while I count your nose hairs and wait for this to be over,” then I’m the asshole.
More yappy yappy would, in fact, generally make my evening less enjoyable, and implying that my enjoyment is less valid or important than someone else’s is galling. I mean, I don’t see anyone espousing that someone Just. Shut. Up. for a while to make the introverts happy; it’s always about how we need to change to accommodate them. That lack of give and take is, in a large part, how introverts cease giving a fuck what extroverts think or want.
There’s Toastmasters. It’s not all public speaking, and the public speaking isn’t all planned public speaking. There’s a lot of networking, a lot of talking about public speaking, and Table Topics*. You’ll also get feedback and encouragement.
A standard section of every meeting - during Table Topics a series of members will be asked to stand, given a topic/question, and then timed as they speak on the topic for 1-2 minutes.
But everyone shutting up would not make ME happy, and I’m introverted. If you want silence, go home. Being at a party is a place for socializing, not anti-socializing. If you don’t like parties (and I’m not a huge fan) don’t go to parties and then expect the very concept of parties to change to suit you.
I enjoy parties the most (or I used to, I’m too old for those things now anyway) if I can just watch other people talk. If you want me to interact with people (much), make it one-on-one, please. Doesn’t mean I want everyone else to shut up.
However, I’m very happy hanging out over here in my corner, thanks, you don’t have to come check on me and try to make me talk to everyone. And I’m not gloomy or sad, this is what I look like when I have fun.
Back in my younger days when I still did that kind of thing, I used to like sitting in my corner rolling joints for people. It was something to do so I didn’t look as mopey, and I was at least making myself useful.
I enjoy parties the most when I have something to do—partly because having something to do makes it easier to talk to other people, because it can provide things to talk about; and partly because, if I can’t think of anything to say, it gives me something else to do instead, so that I’m not just standing around at loose ends.
So I much prefer get-togethers that are based around doing something (e.g. playing games of some sort, watching something on TV, working on a project). “There will be a lot of other people there” may be excuse enough for an extravert to go someplace, but I’d rather go someplace where there’s something to do.
I hear thi, and I’m similar. I’m more likely to go to a pumpkin carving party than a birthday party (I HATE birthday parties) because it’s geared toward something other than just standing around.
But that’s on us. Just as it’s on me to figure out or bring something I can eat (I can’t eat gluten) rather than just to stand around being bitchy because no one did it for me.
Those of us with special needs need to take care of ourselves rather than expecting the world to change to suit us.
The introvert I love once confessed that he was resentful of the loud, colorful conversations, laughter and big tales that his extrovert friends told, and tended to make snide remarks about the loudmouths in our group. I see a little bit of that disparaging from the introvert side here, and it’s not flattering. There isn’t anything wrong with being either the entertainer or the observer. Reticence is only a fault if you personally feel slighted or shortchanged.
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt”? "Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men’s imperfections, and conceal your own."George Bernard Shaw
“He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.” Elbert Hubbard
and all the other relevant and appropriate quotes go here.
But this one holds water as well: “As we must account for every idle word, so must we account for every idle silence.” Benjamin Franklin
Is there any reason why an introvert who enjoys observing a crowd can’t just say so? “I’m a patron, not a star” or “I’m enjoying the floor show” or “I’m pretty content to relax and enjoy everyone else, thanks” “I’m having fun just watching everyone”. I understand if introverts feel unfairly pressured to show off, but isn’t there a clever, charming catchphrase you can craft that will appease the host?
I don’t want silence, just a lull every now and then. But those aren’t acceptable, because a lull means no one’s have FUN!!! and oh God someone say something RIGHT NOW!!! And that holds true for pretty much every interaction with strong extroverts–shopping, having dinner, watching a movie, whatever. They want noise and action, and by golly what they want is good and right and normal, therefore I have to be the one to make changes. Always. In every situation. It’s incredibly grating.
And yeah, I’ve tried not going to parties. It caused massive amounts of butthurt and angst about why I “hated” the people throwing them that went on for weeks. I’ve tried putting in a brief appearance, pretty much same thing. Perhaps it’s merely the particular subsets of extroverts I’ve been saddled with over the years, but there’s a definite perception that rejection of their invitations is a rejection of them.
You see, there a whole lot of people in this world that do not take any “no” for an answer because they apparently know what you want better than you yourself do. We’ve got quite a few threads on the subject already, such as the one about the fellow who after repeated "thanks, but no"s, ended up with someone trying to physically drag him on to a dance floor. Or the one where people sneak food onto someone else’s plate after a “thanks, but no - I’m allergic”. There are of course, some very bad endings to people not taking “no” seriously, but I won’t go any further there.
If they’re not going to listen to “no thanks - I’m allergic” then why do you think they’d listen to someone saying “thanks, but I like watching”?
So no, there is no charming catchphrase to make people stop bugging us about our natural state of being. We can of course say that we’re not interested, or we prefer this or that, but if our wants don’t line up with theirs suddenly we’re the party pooper assholes.
I don’t go to parties much and if there’s butthurt about it I neither know nor care. If you care, that’s on you to either change or not change, but own up to it. “I care that I am bothering these people so I demand these people stop being bothered” will never work.
