On Social Stratification in the U.S.

In My Humble Opinion
1

Over the several adult years of my life, I have observed that persons tend to stratify according to both their real and perceived level of attractiveness. By way of explanation, I will relate a specific anecdote that seems to hold fast with the general observation.

I have known a woman since March of 2005, who seems to embody the truth of my stratification theory. At that time, she had lost nearly 50 pounds, was jogging/running nearly 5 miles 4 times per week, and was generally making serious inroads in her own personal improvement program. At that time, she didn’t consider herself overly-attractive, rating herself somewhere around a “6” on a scale of 1 to 10. (Incidentally, and for the purpose of this discussion, this is precisely where I also rate myself.) The truth of her situation was that, with her very nearly reaching her personal weight and fitness goals, she was actually closer to an “8.” (Her seeing herself as a 6 was to my personal benefit, because she was attracted to me at the time.)

As you can see, though she was actually an 8, she considered herself a 6, which caused her to seek others she believed to be closer to her own perceived attractiveness level. Since then, a year has passed, and she is seeing a guy on a steady basis that is a pretty solid 8. Not only that, but she has noticed that other guys that would probably be rated as a “high 8” or “low 9” are actually “scoping her out” in public, and other people (including myself) have told her on numerous occasions that she is a solid 8 now, and possibly pushing a 9. The interesting part of this, is that she has started to believe this, herself.

Point in case, she has mentioned to me that she sees the more attractive guys looking at her, and the sixes and sevens, when they see her, get that “I wouldn’t even have a shot” look on their faces. I’ve asked her if, in fact, she would entertain an approach from any of these sixes or sevens and her reply was, “Probably not.” (Which also means, by proxy, that she doesn’t find me attractive anymore – which is a conversation we’ve had and I’ve confirmed that yes, for the most part, she doesn’t find me as attractive as she once did, and it has nothing to do with my personality, which she rates as a “9.”)

What this proves by anecdote is that eights are attracted to eights; sixes hang out with sixes, etc. Now, there is a + factor of 1 to this; for example, a six can pretty comfortably hang out with and approach a 5 or a 7, but an 8 or higher is “out of his league.” Similarly, an 8 can approach a 7 or a 9, and so forth. There are exceptions, where you see a 6 socializing with an 8 or a 9, but if observed closely, it will usually be seen that this fraternization is almost always strictly social: there will be little or no romantic involvement. Typically, this manifests itself as the nerdy/geeky guy with the hottie girl that he hangs out with. He’d probably love to be romantically involved, and probably has a great deal to offer her emotionally, but because she is more or less unable to stratify that far downward, his affections will be largely unreturned except as a hopelessly platonic relationship.

Now, I realize that there are some anecdotal exceptions, probably on these very Boards – but this is why I put this in IMHO; my observations to date support my previously-stated hypothesis. Has anyone else made similar observations? Also, I would be interested in hearing about first-hand personal stories of others who beat the “stratification theory” (first-hand only, please, not “my friend’s friend…” type stuff).

2

I believe your observations are accurate. One thing I have always wondered is if people that are say 6’s and below have some kind of rose colored glasses that make people in their own league appear more attractive than they really are? I got placed with roommates in college that weren’t nearly as attractive as I was and they would throw out favorable comments on females that I wouldn’t even consider. If you are a fat, nerdy guy do you truly find that big chick with bad skin and clothes physically attractive (I know, she may be great on the inside but that isn’t what this is about)?

3

Those are interesting points you raise. Perhaps our experiences pre-condition us to shoot for those close to our stratus. It could be a conditioning similar to the type of conditioning we have in regards to stove-tops. We know that the stove-top burns, so we don’t go there again when it’s on. Similarly, we know that, if we are a 5 and approach an 8 or 9, we’re going to get burned, so we approach the 4, 5 or 6, realizing that we are less likely to be burned, and that there is a good chance that the person we are approaching will have had similar experiences, resulting in a commonality we can share.

4

I would say an economics supply and demand graph is a good model for attractiveness. The more attractive* you are, the more of a selection you have. Same with everyone else. People more attractive than you will pass you up for a better deal. Eventually you settle into an equilibrium state with people about as good looking as you.
*Attractive being the total package, not just looks.
I also think there is a certain point - call it an Ugly Event Horizon - where you just pretty much totally forget about aethetics at all. Basically you feel you’re so unattractive that you don’t even bother to make an attempt to look good.
I wouldn’t discount socioeconomic factors when discusssing social stratification. Each socioeconomic class has certain archtypes that readilly identify with each other. I might not be able to pick up a Goth chick 4 for the simple reason they normally don’t get with clean cut preppy professional type guys.

5

You’ve got a point here, but I think that subculture might be a better term than socioeconomic class–not that it doesn’t matter, but it’s much harder to discern at a glance.

6

I’d go with the supply and demand answer as well. A higher attractiveness (lumping in everything from looks, smarts, money, personality etc in here) score gives you a wider range of potential partners. People will of course try to get as good a partner as they can so the market will reach an equilibrium.

Of course a 3 guy will want to hook up with a 10 girl, but the 10 girl will be able to do better so they wont match.

I think the OPs distinction of real and selfperceived attractiveness is good. What you perceive yourself as will certainly affect who you will try to approach. I know it was that way for me back in high school. I didn’t see myself as very attractive (I was also very shy) so I didn’t dare go after the high scorers. It wasn’t until later that I gained more confidence and after a few positive experiences when girls that I thought were out of my league tried to pick me up that I realized that hey maybe I am a higher score.

7

I think that water seeks it’s own level. Whether that’s attractiveness, intelligence, mental stability, financial status, etc., I know that I personally ended up with someone who is my counterpart on these issues. He and I are at the same level of attractiveness (although he thinks he’s lower, he’s not), we make roughly the same amount of money, and our intellectual, social, and emotional states are similar. Our personalities differ, of course, but otherwise we are equal.

I have dated men where things were more off kilter, and it didn’t work as well. Usually it was more of an intelligence/culture thing than an appearance thing.

8

I’ve often wondered about this. Do ugly people actually find each other attractive*? Or do they just realize that for them, this is as good as it gets?

*At first glance, as opposed to after getting to know them.

9

I’ve wondered too, and I think it may be comfort level. I knew of a couple out in a nearby rural area and they are both unattractive when compared to any standard. It’s clear there is inbreeding in their area (some of their features suggest it, and his cousin who moved five miles away is considered a real rebel). Anyhoo, they had known each other in school and later he left his first marriage to be with her. So there is clearly a real attraction and desire to be together, and I think it may be based on them being the standard among the group they are part of. They are no better or worse looking that the local population so it’s not settling, it’s just that’s the level that’s available.

Outsiders, even more attractive ones, might just look weird. I moved up here from NYC where my standard of male beauty was the Spanish, black, and white-professional men I would see daily. My first view of the guys up here was a shock because dressing nice and grooming in a NYC way is just not part of the culture; frankly they just looked unkempt to me. Now I can see the differences and the hotness of Carharrts and flannel but it took awhile, and I didn’t really look at features but the overall package blinded me to them.

10

I notice that no one has yet admitted to being ugly enough to answer the “Do ugly people really find each other attractive?” question :), so I’ll give it a shot based on my experiences as one who used to be very fat.

When I was very fat, I really didn’t even notice guys who were good-looking by conventional standards. I guess I pretty much knew that it would never work out so I didn’t even think of it as an option.
The guys I did find attractive were certainly not “pretty boys” by any definition…mostly they were nerdy-looking, chubby computer geeks (basically of about the same level of attractiveness as fat chicks by most current social standards) who had personalities that I found appealing.
I don’t think I ever experienced lust at first sight with any of them just based on looks. Instead, I was gradually lured in by the guy’s personality/sense of humor. THEN, the guy started to look good to me. As we all know, if you find someone’s personality attractive, it has the effect of making them seem better-looking in your eyes.
So, yes, I did honestly think the guys I liked back then were hot-looking, even being chubby “geeks”, and genuinely found them attractive.

Since those days, I’ve lost about 150 pounds, which drastically changed my appearance. I have to admit that I tend to be pickier about guys’ looks nowadays than I used to be. It wasn’t even a conscious decision. I didn’t think to myself, “Oh, I’m thinner now, so I can attract hotter guys!”. It just seems like I have a better eye for details in other people’s appearance, maybe because I tend to scrutinize my own appearance more closely now.

The strange thing is, sometimes I wish I hadn’t become pickier. I’ve often met sweet guys with great personalities, who probably would have been attractive to me five years ago when I was still fat…but nowadays, they all end up in the friend pile because I just don’t feel a spark on the physical level. Meanwhile, it is quite hard to find a good looking guy who ALSO has a well-developed personality. It seems to me like a lot of “pretty by conventional standards” people out there get by just on looks.

I know, I am well aware that beauty is only skin deep…after all, even in my fattest days I was still basically the same person inside. It’s just that I can’t force myself to consider a relationship with someone who doesn’t have some physical appeal for me.

Probably not the most heart-warming post I’ve ever made, but it’s the truth.

11

A few years ago I worked with a young woman who lost about 50 lbs in the time we worked together. The more weight she lost, the more obnoxious she became. I mean, she really came out of her shell. She was much kinder and more pleasant before she lost the weight. Too bad.

12

I have always noticed this one particular phenomenon – I see average-looking (or worse!) guys with pretty girls quite often. The reverse situation – handsome man with fat or ugly girl – I virtually never see!

13

i’ll throw my two cents in as well.

then again, if i do, i think i’ll end up parroting what the last poster said.
it’s a self defense mechanism…to avoid hurt, you stick to what is safe. of course, that means staying within classification boundaries (the ratings and such).

the last person brought up another point that could end up hijacking the rest of the thread: are more attractive, by definition, less rounded as people?
the caveats and exceptions are some. for example, i’d think that if we accept that better looking people have worse personalities because, quite frankly, they don’t need to have them as developed to find other people. going by that, it might be the ugly duckling or the late bloomer that we’re after. that would enable you to have at least SOME of both worlds.

then again, beauty be in the eye of the beholder.

as another hijack, what do people look for in a partner? i’m not really looking for the stock “personality and sense of humor” reaction, more like where in the balance that “smarts” and “beauty” lies.

i’d think you would be crazy to not want to max oth of those traits out, seeing as how it seems they run counter to each other.

i’ll stop rambling now.

14

crap, i had meant to address this phenomenon.

this is what throws me off kilter here. i think that girls are more apt to look past the “good looking” nature of a mate. to gals, they care slightly less about looks than they do emotional factors (comfort, honesty, all that stuff).

i suppose, what i’m saying is, women seem to be less picky as a whole.

unless the sex with the ugly guy is that good that they can excuse it. or the ugly guy has oodles of cash.

i blame this new hijack of a hijack on a hijack on money.

15

I think it’s just that women aren’t as visual when it comes to attraction. I’ve never dated an outrightly ugly guy, but I’ve dated a few overweight ones and some that were distinctly average looking.

When it comes to dating criteria, looks are about fourth or so on my list.

16

The supply and demand model still works here; you just need to consider everything that each partner brings to the table and what they’re looking for in a mate. Women value physical attractiveness much less than men do, so you’d expect uneven attractiveness in relationships to skew as it does.

17

Also, physical attractiveness is pretty subjective. Not only do people find different physical attributes attractive, but often, getting to know someone can make a huge difference in how you perceive their physical attractiveness.

18

Or they’ve been burned by the cute ones, or they favor personality over looks, or they love a keen mind, or they find a great sense of humor sexy, or …

How would a women find out that a guy she wasn’t attracted to was so good in bed that she didn’t care she wasn’t attracted to him?

19

A ski weekend featuring too much booze and not enough bedrooms.

20

Several science books I’ve read and science programs I’ve watched attribute this to the concept of reproductive competition, in an evolutionary capacity. In other words, males (subconsciously) seek attractive females because they possess outward attributes that signal the best reproductive advantages: health & the ability to pass good genes to their offspring. Females also (subconsciously) seek males who possess outward attributes that signal the best reproductive advantages; it’s just that those happen, in the males’ cases, to be such things as strength, wealth, status, etc., before things like good looks.

Translated into more conscious choices: a good-looking woman on one’s arm is a status symbol if one is male. A wealthy/rich/powerful man on one’s arm is (more of) a status symbol if one is female.