Yes actually it is about as difficult to understand as it would be if you were saying the same thing about beating up my grandparents or stomping kittens into the ground. Sorry but you are simply wrong.
What if they were evil kittens?
No kittens deserve to get stomped. Even evil ones. IMO.
I think that there are many reasons people cheat. It may not be the right thing to do, but perhaps it is the right thing for them at that point in their life.
We live, we learn. We lose, we learn.
I don’t believe the ‘once a cheater always a cheater’ theory. I’ve been there, on both sides of it. But I learned a lot.
Never again.
Of course not, but in my case I “settled” and wasn’t in love like I am now. Stupid, I know, but I was much younger and less mature.
:eek: After all that, I can definitely see where you’re coming from.
I didn’t mean to imply that cheating isn’t a hurtful thing. I can definitely see it as devastating and would not want it to happen in my relationship under any circumstances. I just know that many people regard it as a complete deal-breaker and immediately declare the cheater to be scum. I tend to have a more sympathetic perspective, not because I would ever cheat but because I tend to view it as a symptom of a troubled relationship rather than a cause.
Sorry for the DP… freaking server…
Also, I agree with ** Digital C** that cheating is less likely for people who don’t need to be with someone. I am deliriously in love with my husband, but if for whatever reason we grew apart infidelity wouldn’t be an issue… staying in the relationship would. I might find myself tempted other guys… which would move me to immediately confront my husband, say, ‘‘Look, I’m thinking about other people. Either we fix this or we learn to let go.’’ He is exactly the same kind of person. Cheating is not an option for either of us because it’s just a fundamentally dishonest act and neither of us do dishonest things. It makes much more sense to both of us to sit down and work it out.
Also, it depends on the kind of choices you routinely make. I’m married, not dead. When I was in Mexico, by myself, missing my husband, I didn’t go with the single girls to the club for a specific reason. Why put yourself in that position to even be tempted? It’s not that I’m worried about losing control, it’s that I don’t even want the unpleasantness of thinking tempting thoughts. So I make it a point not be alone with guys I find attractive.
Meh, you say I’m wrong, I say you’re suffering a failure of imagination.
I’m not saying that cheating is inevitable, or that anyone WOULD do it, I’m just saying that anyone (IMO) COULD do it, and that doing it does not necessarily make one an inveterate cheater.
If you say that you believe that you could never do it, I certainly am inclined to take your word for that. I’m even inclined to believe that you never will. What I’m not inclined to do is to neatly split the world into “people who cheat” and “people who don’t”, given that it’s pretty evident that people react differently in different situations and at different times in their lives.
Aren’t you the guy who said he would do violence to anyone who ever dared to suggest that his wife would cheat? Obviously you are capable of black and white thinking on this subject. If anyone could do it, and being a cheater is just a matter of circumstance, what makes anyone, including your wife, exempt from that?
I also don’t understand the cynicism behind a statement like, “Anyone could do it.” Yeah, if you put a gun to my head and told me to fuck another guy or you’ll blow my brains out, sure, I might do it. That’s me, using my imagination to think of ways that DianaG’s statement is true, lest I be accused of a failure of imagination. Otherwise, no, it wouldn’t happen. I can’t speak for anyone else in the world, but I can speak for myself. It’s kind of ridiculous for some stranger on the internet to say, “Oh, but you could, you just don’t know it!”
My view of “once a cheat, always a cheat” is that while it isn’t a universal truth, it’s correct often enough that it’s a pretty good general guideline. And if we’re talking “twice a cheat, always a cheat” … that I’ll take to the bank.
Yes, I’m “that guy.” Your point? My point at the time is that I believe the type of wagging tongue that would defame a good woman like my wife richly deserves an asswhooping. I still believe the same thing today. Malicious gossip harms people and their loved ones every day. I, for one, won’t tolerate it.
This is my take on it, too.
In the linked thread, I said that I believed a person could change that sort of thing in theory. Still, I’m skeptical, at least when it pertains to cheating on the same person. If that person dumps them and makes them cry, that might smarten them up so that when the next dope comes along, they play by the rules. I guess I’ve seen too many cuckolds keep with the same ho-bag, male or female, while thinking that the next time it just won’t happen. Why wouldn’t it happen again? It happened before. Why would they feel that much remorse after? They didn’t feel it before. It’s not like they said “Hmmmm, I think I’ll cheat” and then two seconds later, they’re in bed with the wrong person. There’s at least a couple of steps involved. Could a person mend their ways or come back from betrayal? Maybe so, but I’m sure as hell not going to take that chance. If you want to, knock yourself out, but I’ve got better things to do than watch my back for the rest of whenever.
And as far as “Betray my trust once, and you’ll never get it back,” hell yeah, I believe in that. That attitude has gotten me further than, “Oh well, my trust isn’t that important.” It sure as hell is that important, and my friends don’t fuck me over, and I don’t fuck them over. If you want to go back to a friend or SO who betrays your trust . . . Well, it’s your life, but I’d fasten my seatbelt if I were you, because you’re in for a rough ride.
This is what I’ve seen, this is what I’ve learned, and this is what I believe. Life is just too damned short to hang around people you can’t trust. There are too many good and trustworthy people out there to take that route.
If anyone could cheat, then it’s entirely possible that it wouldn’t be “malicious gossip” but the truth, and despite being a “good woman,” under the right circumstances, yes, your wife might fuck another guy. This is the premise being put forth in this thread, which you seem to agree with. I don’t think most people deserve an asswhooping for telling the truth, when it’s about something as important as this. Unless, of course, you are experiencing a failure of imagination like me, and want to step back from this idea that “anyone could cheat.” Based on your earlier stance about the possibility of your wife cheating cheating, I figured you and I would agree that some people just wouldn’t do that, and I’m surprised to see you expressing a different view here.
Let’s not derail the thread because you get a bad case of the meegrums picturing me horsewhipping the town gossip. Whether or not a given person will cheat and some other person enjoying spreading gossip have exactly fuck-all to do with each other. Further, gossip doesn’t enjoy some sort of journalistic protection by virtue of being true, should that be the case.
I believe DianaG was making sense.
I believe in flaying the hide from gossips one strip at a time.
The two beliefs are in no way in conflict with each other.
Now if you want to discuss my beliefs further open another thread, ideally in The Pit where I can express my opinions uninhibitedly.
You are getting awfully jumped up about this. You can Pit me if you like. I don’t feel it’s necessary from my end. I’m merely pointing out that you have, in the past, agreed with me: there are some people, like your wife, who won’t cheat. DianaG, who you claim to agree with, is not in agreement with that premise; she believes anyone, including your wife, could cheat under the right circumstances. Thus, you have contradicted yourself. Your reaction to my pointing out this inconsistency seems disproportionate to the topic. You can’t have it both ways.
I answered in another thread (on cheating and friends) that cheating can be a sign of an underlying character flaw that would be just as undesirable in a friend as in a partner. Without contradicting that answer, I’m going to say here that once a cheat, always a cheat isn’t necessarily true. The circumstances need to be taken into account, and so does the cheater’s prior and subsequent behaviour.
My ex will always be a cheat. Why? He loves the secrecy, the subterfuge and the sneaking around. When he confessed his affair to me and I took the news calmly and without immediately getting angry (I’m slow to react at the best of times, and he’d woken me at 4am to tell me), he was surprised and he got a little carried away, bragging to me about the things he’d done to keep me from suspecting what he was up to. Once I had a chance to sit and process what he’d said, I realised there was no chance that this would be a one-off because he was too pleased with himself and had enjoyed being so “clever”. With my full knowledge, he spent the following weekend with the girl who he’d been sneaking around behind my back to see for a month, and he came home complaining she was boring, stupid and that he didn’t want to see her anymore. It was never about the girl, she was just the first willing accomplice he found… it was about the thrill of cheating. His behaviour since has borne that out, as he has cheated on every woman he has dated since we split, including the one he was originally cheating with.
For those who buy the “once a cheat always a cheat” rap, what if the person didn’t cheat again for say, three years. Or five years. Or maybe TEN years. Would you finally believe that the person gave up cheating? Or would you still hold it against the person…even 20 years down the road?
Capable of cheating doesn’t mean habitual cheater. All it means to me is that under the right set of circumstances they have been known to cheat, and it makes me think if the right set of circumstances were to present themselves again there is a good chance they would do it again. The fact that it doesn’t happen in 3, 5 or 20 years doesn’t change the fact that they’ve already shown themselves capable of it.
No.
Damn…hit post instead of “go advanced”.
No. I have cheated, and know I could never do it again. It’s a horrible feeling knowing you let down someone you truly love, and seeing them distrust you. One of the hardest things for me was knowing that she was never capable of doing something like that to me, and I did it to her. It still bothers me to this day, even after we got back together. It really was just a matter of situation. We were in an open relationship, and I slept with someone else. I didn’t tell her about until she asked me. I felt awful the whole time with the other person, knowing I didn’t love them. That the person I did love was somewhere else, crying.
I agree that it can be the sign of an underlying character flaw. I know before this I didn’t like to talk about my feelings with anyone. Doubts or concerns I may have had, I wouldn’t really say anything figuring it would work itself out. Now, I know it is important to say things when they are a small problem, rather than a big one.
And this tells me that those who think this ignore the ability of people to change. While such changes are not trivial, there are people who have shown themselves capable of the necessary introspection to see why they acted as such and undertaken the hard to make changes in their thinking and actions.
As I wrote in the other tread, one of the problems is that people who cheat on their spouses or SO, often feel justified in selfish actions which cause tremendous harm to their partner. This is something which a person can come to realize and can change. It’s not trivial, because there are underlying causes of why that person has come to these beliefs.
I know that for me, there was a correlation between the sexual and other abuse I received as a child and my acting inappropriately as an adult. I also know that it was not easy to take responsibility for my actions and to see how they could hurt others. I am thankful, however for the years of therapy which allowed me to free myself from my previous self-destructive behaviors. I’m really happy to have had that behind me before I met my wife because I would never, ever want to do something to harm this relationship.
I think it’s a terrible sad point of view to believe that people are not capable of making fundamental changes in their lives. I also think it’s sad that some people, in their rush to divide a world into black and white, lose their compassion for those who were not always strong.
It’s naïve to assume that all people who say they have made these changes actually have made them. I think it’s also naïve to assume that people who haven’t cheated in the past absolutely, 100%, wouldn’t cheat in the future.
As as a final comment, I’ve seen enough scam artists who throw around terms such as “integrity” and “my word” to know that not all people who claim them have them.