Dunno if this is GQ material or not. Mods, move away.
This will be a bit akward… guess I should just plunge right in.
Someone (ahem!) has a girlfriend who can’t enjoy penetration. It’s very, very painful for her. I think it sounds a lot like what’s been described as (hope I spell this right) vaginismus - the painful and involuntary tightening of the vaginal muscles in response to anticipated pain or other previously experienced trauma.
Someone thinks this could be either his fault or the fault of a previous boyfriend who was very bad to her. The less said about the previous asshole boyfriend the better, but suffice it to say he hurt her repeatedly. Someone is glad that he’s non-violent, because if he were prone to violence… well, let’s just say that some people are alive only because it’s illegal to kill them.
Someone also considers the possibility that he may not be doing the foreplay well enough - or for long enough. Someone isn’t sure if this is the case or not, so someone is looking for an opinion. Someone managed (much to his astonishment) to bring her off twice with just his hands and mouth, shortly before attempting intercourse. Still, it’s possible it was too fast. Someone thinks the lubrication was adequate, but it can be difficult to judge when wearing a condom, as someone always does.
Basically, someone is feeling a bit bummed out because he feels that someone he loves quite a bit is being cheated out of one of the greatest pleasures in life - good sex. Someone is fairly unsure how to proceed at this point. The person in question has read several websites about painful intercourse and vaginismus. There seem to be several things that can be done.
Seeing a doctor (obgyn or similiar) is probably a valid option. Unfortunately this may be expensive, and someone is not rich. Someone’s girlfriend is in college, which may be a good thing - the college may provide free care.
Just slowing down and taking it easier for a while is certanly an excellent idea, too. However, someone is really unnerved by how bad it seems to be for his girlfriend. We’re talking, from orgasm to crying and curled up fetal in the space of not much more than five minutes. Someone doesn’t want to risk that again. Someone wants some assurance he’s not going to hurt her again before he tries anything. The next time intercourse is attempted (which may be a while) someone will definitely bring some lubricant to bed to make sure that’s not the problem. Someone has also tried to encourage his girlfriend to use the “girl on top” position so she can control pentration, but she doesn’t seem to like the idea very much.
So, supposing that you to be asked for advice by this hypothetical someone (ahem…), what would you say to them?
-Ben
Well I’m neither a doctor nor a woman but I just wanted to say it’s good you’re thinking about these things. There are certainly way to deal with this sort of thing. For all I know this may be something more for a sex therapist, or a couples counsellor, or a psychotherapist than a medical doctor.
I wonder if hypnosis might help? It’s used a lot these days to help people with the sort of stresses that you can’t just laugh away. There are people who lose sleep over the idea of a trip by plane; people who pick their fingernails bloody when hard at work. All sorts of stuff can be dealt with by hypnosis, which might be a good thing if, as I am guessing, this is really a problem that is best dealt with psychologically rather than medically.
(I had a few hypnosis sessions over freeway anxiety. I call it that anyway - I used to lose sleep with images of all the car accidents that didn’t happen on the way to work slamming around in my head. It worked really well - about two 30 minute sessions of actual hypnosis plus more time in ordinary discussion.)
In a lot of ways, it’s up to her. The best the boyfriend can do in a situation like this is be patient and listen. It sounds like that’s what you’re doing so I don’t have any radical suggestions. Maybe she’ll ask you to come to a counsellor with you, maybe she’ll ask you to listen a lot or maybe she won’t have much to say. Maybe she won’t want to have intercourse for months and months and you shouldn’t take it personally. With a little luck, she will eventually want to make up for lost time.
Amen to the sentiment of “some people are still alive only because it’s illegal to kill them,” but since this isn’t the appropriate forum for a rant, I won’t.
It certainly sounds as if someone’s girlfriend should go see a counselor at their college. Although what she experienced in her sexual or “romantic” past might not have been strictly termed rape, it seems as if she needs help with stopping the continuing abuse (from the memory/baggage/what-have-you, not you) and a college rape counselor would be a good starting point.
The college should also be able to provide for her gyn. care, though if they don’t, a local Planned Parenthood could probably help inexpensively. At least, in CA, they base their services on monthly income, and I think it generally ends up being a matter of the donation you can afford at the time.
Good luck, and good for you for caring (ach, that sounds terrible, sorry, but you know what I mean)and in the meantime (depending on what the counselor/doctor reccommends) you might want to try (though you probably have already) the whole just have a good time together technique. Have fun dates, cook dinner together, goof around and make-out (have a little good wine, plug in the lava lamp) but forget about penetration for a while. If you can give her an orgasm with your mouth and a bit of massage, yay, and maybe she can return the favour in kind, but keep it no pressure. Sleep together and really build up the trust in her subconscious. It’s not a big deal. I read somewhere that the most sensitive part of the vagina is the first two inches so, hey, have a good time, play with toys, food (messy and in my experience not worth the trouble but fun the first few times) and silly strip teases–play Right Said Fred “I’m Too Sexy” and strip as a surprise, make an ass of yourself so sex isn’t such a high pressure event.
Ah, look at this (some kind of a parenthetical record attempt going on) I’m a regular Dr. Ruth. For all I know you guys have been friends for years, dating for a long time and only now facing the sticky sex issue. But then again, I don’t think that happens all that often. Anyway, again, good luck, and good love.
Someone’s girlfriend may have a retroverted or tipped uterus. Someone else’s wife had this and it wasn’t resolved until after the first baby. Someone’s girlfriend would need to see a doctor to confirm such a thing.
It’s possible to have a yeast infection that doesn’t produce the symptoms that send most women racing to the drugstore for a cure, but rather just sits there, ongoing, doing nothing until you try to do the nasty, whereupon it then makes intercourse murderously painful. Personal experience here. I had no idea what was wrong, endured months of painful intercourse, but the doctor took one peek and said “Yeast infection, girl!” That’s just one of the options that a quick exam could help rule out. For chick problems like this, a college is well-equipped to handle it. She can even see a nurse practitioner. Once those sorts of things are ruled out, then you can consider the more exotic things.
Astroglide is your friend. Lots and lots of astroglide.
And also, try some “foreplay” that doesn’t lead to sex. Like a long, slow all-body massage that just ends in cuddling. If it is psychological, this may help her to relax more fully, so her reaction isn’t so hair-trigger when you go from foreplay (for real) to attempting intercourse.
And finally, I apologize for getting too graphic, but my former boyfriend had this problem with his girlfriend. Hers was 100% psychological–she was so utterly freaked about pregnancy, she could never relax about that sort of intercourse. But they had a wild happy sex life doing everything else. Just no penile-vaginal intercourse. If you get my drift. Nudge.
cough Um, yeah, she needs to see a doctor–a head doctor. Seriously.
This–
–is not a normal reaction to the simple pain of intercourse with a too-tight, unlubricated vagina. The normal reaction to the simple pain of intercourse with a too-tight, unlubricated vagina is,“Ow! Hey, that hurts!”
But curling up in fetal position and beginning to cry immediately after sex is an overwhelming abnormal psychological reaction to the whole idea, the whole concept, of sex. This girl needs more help than an OB-GYN can give her, but an OB-GYN is a good starting point.
Unless of course you were talking about the BF starting to cry and curling up in fetal position, in which case get him the help.
Someone’s girlfriend might have endometriosis, but the fact that she is reluctant to even try the woman on top position makes me think a therapist would be in order. That, and the fact she has a traumatic past history.
I strongly suspect her former boyfriend wasn’t the first to do her psychic harm.
Someone’s girlfriend is lucky to have such an understanding boyfriend. However, keep in mind that this problem may have very deep roots and be difficult to resolve. Someone should be careful to take care of his own needs also and not become become a therapist/boyfriend which won’t help anybody in the long run.
If someone makes repeated attempts to resolve this issue and someone’s girlfriend is resistant to suggestions of actions on her part (new positions, seeing a gyn., etc.), someone should gently remind her that, in the end, it is her problem to solve. Warm wishes for the best of luck to both of them.
So someone’s girlfriend is actually having an orgasm through sexual intercourse (first of all, that’s pretty cool, not a lot of women have that satisfaction), but is having pain afterward?? There are some women that do have uterine contractions (not the good kind, the kind that mimic menstrual cramps) shortly after orgasm. I wonder if this is what’s happening to her? If so, it probably has nothing to do with SOMEONE at all, but the actual orgasm. Yes, it could be a problem like a tipped uterus or endometriosis, I would think.
Oh yeah, and as a woman I’m kind of offended by those who think just 'cause she has pain that she needs a “head doctor” or therapist. What’s up with that? Why do you automatically think that she’s having a psychiatric problem? My first thought was “oh, it’s some kind of physical problem.” To me that’s like saying menstrual cramps and other “woman” problems are myths.
The ancient Greeks coined a term “hysteria” from their word for uterus, because they (and physicans up to the time of modern medicine) believed women had a natural predilection for insanity. Is this belief still prevalent? Seems like it.
Maybe I’m reading too much into the responses to this guy’s question, but it just bugs the hell out of me when people assume because a woman is having unexplainable discomfort and pain that she’s just “hysterical” and “it’s all in her head”.
Lorie
Lorie, read the OP again. She does NOT have orgasms through intercourse. And Duck Duck Goose is right when he says that curling up in a fetal position and weeping is not an appropriate response. I am a woman too, and when a woman with no psychological issues experiences pain during intercourse she actively problem solves with her partner and goes to the gyn. if they can’t resolve it.
It sounds psychological. Vaginismus is usually treated with both counselling as well as a series of dilators to gradually reduce the discomfort of penetration and spasm. It does not sound like endometriosis – although this does cause painful sex and bleeding it is less likely given her traumatic past.
It may not be appropriate, but the problem may still be physiological. Image if you discovered (or thought you discovered) that sex - the thing that brings so much joy to others was not something that you could enjoy. Pretty devastating, I should think. Especially if said female has great affection for someone and wants to give him pleasure. Perhaps a fetal position might be called for…
I know when someone else’s wife first experienced the pain, she was very, very upset. There was weeping, though no fetal gestures. First (gut) reaction was to blame it on psychology. There was some relief when the doctor informed her that it was physiological and that childbirth might correct the problem, but real relief didn’t come until after the kid and she was able to enjoy intercourse.
I don’t think we know enough about the previous “hurtful” relationship to draw any conclusions about how that relationship might have affected the girlfriend. Also, the problem could have been present with the start of the previous relationship and the previous boyfriend could have just been venting his frustration, assuming that the girl was faking. Too many unknowns.
Best course of action is to see an ObGyn first and rule out physiological problems. It’s cheaper too!
My wife, a virgin when I met her, had an unusually and extremely thick hymen that was partially torn (through partial intercourse between us) but was otherwise still hanging around. End result was the same, which is that intercourse was extremely painful and not possible thereafter for close to a year.
My wife saw an OBGYN who diagnosed the problem and surgically removed the offending hymen, which was in a state of perpetual infection.
Believe it or not, this also did not solve the problem completely. Though intercourse was now tolerable, it was by no means plesant as yet - the result of inflammed vaginal tissue and a heavier-than-normal discharge (not sure if that was related to the problem). This problem has continued to persist throughout our relationship.
The solution has been to use water-based lubricants (like Astroglide) and a whole lot of sex toys to gradually stretch out the tissue. While I’d love to tell you I was well endowed, the truth is, I am of average length and girth. That said, the inflammation makes everything very tender and tends to close up everything, so the stretching out makes it less of a problem, and allows us normal sex with lubricant most of the time
This worked for me when I had the same problem, put a pillow or two under her butt during intercoursen IOW elevate the vagina at more of an angle. Also agree with the water based lubrication. And you might want to consider not using condoms, the inside of the vagina tends to stick to the latex even with proper lubrication.
Lorie, I’m a woman, too, and I’m offended by people who assume that when a woman experiences pain during intercourse that it must be simply because she isn’t “wet” enough, or because she just has a tough hymen, or needs more foreplay–in other words, that it’s simply a mechanical problem that can be easily addressed. It’s closely related to the “oh, just get her drunk enough and she’ll open up” school of sex therapy.
It actually sounds to me like she has serious “issues” with sex, and it also occurred to me right off the bat, as soon as I read the OP, that the ex-boyfriend who was “very bad to her” had possibly made sex into a power-play, manipulative, even abusive ritual, instead of just “sex”.
When sex hurts from purely physical reasons, the normal response is, “Ouch!” and then the two of you figure out why it hurts, and either you slow down, or you go buy some K-Y jelly.
But curling up into a fetal position and weeping immediately after sex is not a normal response to simple painful intercourse.
I know a long-time poster here on the boards who has had substantial sexual dysfunction problems with her husband–she has chronic painful intercourse, too. But her response is not to curl up into a fetal ball and cry. Her response is to say, “Hey, that hurts, and it’s not supposed to hurt, so how can I fix this?”
Not a doc or a woman either, but an ex of mine was similar to Someone’s girlfriend.
I would also say go for an exam, but it does appear to be psychological. My ex had ‘recent’ issues with an ex boyfriend, but the root cause was childhood trauma. The road was long and difficult, but she was able to come out of her shell a bit.
As others have said, the role of boyfriend/counselor is not a great one to have, so be sure you are prepared for many long nights and long days. The pressure to succeed is difficult to avoid for the both of you, so be aware of that as well.
Time and patience are your best friends, me creating a safe and loving environment really helped my ex, but as I said don’t expect results any time soon.
YMMV, of course, but I’ve found that astroglide has changed the way they make their stuff and it seems to, well, burn and cause irritation. Not just during, but after as well.
I thought it was just me, so I stopped using it and tried a different lube. I mentioned it to a friend of mine who worked in a “Toy” store and she said that she’d had quite a few complaints from women about the same thing. She also experienced the same thing when she restocked her personal supply of the stuff (and she was very Pro-Astroglide prior).
I recommend Sex Grease. It’s great stuff.
*Note to mods … the link shows only a picture of the bottle and not any activities that would require lube. The bottle is black with white letters and has no pictures. However, if it’s still questionable, please feel free to delete.
