Nice story. From anyone else I wouldn’t believe it, but from you, Cal? I believe it.
This is a common online dating myth, but it’s just not true in the context of meeting someone for coffee. The number of occasions where a man ‘physically forces himself’ on a woman during a first meet at a coffee shop or restaurant in the US is, if not actually zero, absurdly, vanishingly rare. If you think it’s ‘not so rare’, can you link me some news reports or studies or something similar showing that rape (or sexual assault or kidnapping or murder or attempted of any of the above) has happened in a first meeting at a public location like a coffee shop or restaurant at all in the last decade or so in a first world country? On another board I challenged some people to find examples, and all they could come up with was questionable articles from 3rd world countries.
I disagree based on the experience of everyone, male and female, that I know who is happy with the results of their experience dating online. If you spend weeks or months chit-chatting, your odds of ever actually meeting are small, and of ever actually progressing to dating are nonexistent. There will always be some worry or some excuse coming up to prevent meeting, and if you press for it you’ll probably get labeled as ‘dangerous’ and the conversation ends. Now if you like having an online penpal or online-only relationship then there’s no downside to this (even if you never date you, you have a thing you like), this advice is only for people looking for an in-person relationship.
messed up quote.
I agree Pantastic.
Pantastic, it doesn’t have to be TRUE, it just has to be BELIEVED. And I know any number of women who do believe it’s a real possibility, based on urban myth, apocryphal stories, whatever, but they believe it - particularly if they are new to the game. When I was doing the online dating thing, I had a guy follow me home from a ‘coffee date’, I imagine his purpose was to see where I lived. Once I realized he was following me and that I wasn’t going to shake him by making odd turns, I drove directly to the police station and parked there. He turned around in the parking lot and drove away. Perhaps he meant me no harm at all and was just curious, but all the hair on the back of my neck stood up and I FELT threatened, whether I was or not.
And no, I’m not talking about months of back and forth messaging. I’m talking about no more than a week or 10 days max, depending on people’s schedules.
Seriously - what’s the rush? Clearly we all want something to happen, but what does it matter if it’s today or a week from today?
Completely agree. If you ask someone out, don’t put it on them where to go. You can offer an option, saying either meet at Starbucks, or a local café that you’ve heard is good. And I agree with everyone else, offering to meet at a police station is weird.
Most women aren’t necessarily afraid that if they meet a guy that he’ll go ahead and try to rape them in the corner of a coffee shop. It’s more that he’ll seem mostly normal for a few dates and she’ll let her guard down, and then he might try to assault her after he’s driven them home from their third date. Or that they meet, and the date is fine but she’s not interested in more, but he gets angry or insulted at that, or just doesn’t take the hint, and then won’t stop texting or calling her. And if a woman does have a really bad experience with a weirdo, there will be some people who are sympathetic, but a non-insignificant number who will just be like “what did you expect from online dating?”. It’s not crazy that some women are more hesitant to meet online dates.
This is exactly what I was going to say. I’ve had my share of experiences with men who let the crazy out after (or on) the first date. It ranges from inappropriate comments, to expectations of a hook-up (sex, for you old-timers), to extreme clinginess and possessiveness. Like stillownedbysetters, I had a guy try to follow me home after coffee. This was after I’d thanked him for the date, but told him it wasn’t going to work out between us.
For those of you pushing to immediately escalate to phone calls, there have been many times I’ve regretted giving my number out. Some men get abusive, some get sexually inappropriate and some call and text constantly.
Please understand that the dating world is different for you than it is for her.
Me too, back when I was dating last (about 12 years ago). It’s not even full on rape, but simply a guy who can’t keep his hands to himself - major turn off. In the 7 men I met from match.com there was one who was an octopus. What makes it worse is that those guys are never apologetic and back off. If they back off, they just seem puzzled, like what could they have possibly done wrong? And some do get angry and defensive.
In terms of mis-aligned expectations, there was one time I agreed to go play billiards with a guy. It wasn’t even a match.com date or any other romantic or hookup kind of date because he was married. Over the table as we were playing, he told me straight out that he invited me to play pool with the express expectation of getting laid after. (It didn’t happen.) I guess I was naive to think I could have non-sexual friendship with a man, so I steer clear of such situations after that.
While I can agree the dating world is different based upon gender there is a lot of truth to what people are saying about being stuck in an “online only” situation with these dating sites. I’m married now but when I was using these sites at first I would have this problem regularly. There seems to be mutual interest but the woman involved just kept being unwilling to cross over from online messages, IM’ing/chat, etc., to an in-person date. Eventually I got some good advice and changed my approach accordingly and it worked like a charm.
Basically, after 2-3 message exchanges when I knew there was some degree of interest I casually told the woman what I was doing on a particular night and invited them to come join me if they’d like. I didn’t “ask them out” and waited for an answer. For example:
“I’m going to see this great band on Saturday at Joe’s Bar. You should meet me there and check them out!”
If they said yes, great. If they stayed in that not comfortable meeting just yet phase then that was fine. I was still going to see the band. 
But I’d also begin tapering off my contact. I was going to focus my time on other dating opportunities that would be in-person. I was certainly not going to pursue and keeping asking them out hoping that this time they’d be comfortable with taking the next step. There was no sense in building some sense of intimacy that was only based upon texts, IM/chat, or email messages. That’s not what I was there for and presumably not what others signed up for. None of that online “getting to know you better” stuff is really getting to know someone other than in the online context. I didn’t want an online friend, pen pal, girlfriend, or possible future wife.
It’s incredibly obvious that an assault, if it happens, isn’t going to happen in the middle of a coffee shop or restaurant. It’s also incredibly obvious that that isn’t what people are concerned about.
I think that’s a good approach. Another possible one might be to take a page out of the teenager’s book: invite her to bring some friends to meet you and your friends for an event full of other people, like a concert or sporting event. She’ll feel safe with her friends, if things don’t “gel” then it’s still just friends hanging out so nobody feels bad.
When I was using the sites it seems like I would have a few e emails back and forth followed by a few telephone conversations. I got really tired of driving out to meet someone and then finding out I should have known more about them before I left the house.
You wrote it as though it was true, so I responded to it as though you meant what you said. The fact is, meeting in person after an initial online contact is no more risky than meeting people in person in general, and meeting in a public place is not some high-risk activity. And if someone holds an irrational belief in the dangers of online dating, there’s no particular reason to think that they’ll start acting rational after some short time, there’s no guarantee that going into ‘pen pal’ mode is going to calm their fears.
I agree with a week to 10 days, but that’s not what you said in the message I replied to, you just said an unspecified ‘some time’ and that if the spark is there then extra time will do nothing but make it grow. That doesn’t sound to me like you were advocating for ‘a week, ten days tops’ of chatting, but for an open-ended time commitment. Especially in the context of a thread about people who want to pen pal instead of go on dates.
For the ‘weeks to months’ crowd, it’s not the case that ‘we all’ want something to happen - there are a lot of people online (men and women) who want to chat through online dating but don’t actually want to meet. Sometimes it’s someone who wants cybersex, sometimes it’s a fantasy outlet, some just like online socialization, sometimes it’s ego boosting, sometimes it’s just boredom. Part of arranging a date early
[quote=“Sam_Lowry, post:25, topic:749027”]
It’s not based on any rational weighting of relative risks. Everything you listed with one exception are the exact same risks involved in dating someone who you meet through other means. And none of them are mitigated by extensive pen-paling The one unique risk is possible disapproval if something bad does happen from ‘friends’ who are into victim blaming and are still mentally living in the last Millenium (In the US, roughly 1/3 of people who get married met online, it’s not some fringe weirdo thing anymore). But that risk seems frankly insignificant compared to actual physical assault, and like the others isn’t mitigated (and may even be worsened) by extended pen-palling.
‘Crazy’ is a highly loaded word in the context of women making decisions, I’m not going to step on that land mine.
If it’s so incredibly obvious that the myth is false, then why do people repeat it continuously and use it as a justification for not meeting in the middle of a coffee shop or restaurant? If it isn’t what people are concerned about, then why repeat the myth as if it’s a point of concern? And you posted a scary news story that focuses on the fact that the guy used match.com to meet his victims - but I don’t see how he would be unable to do the exact same stuff meeting victims without using OLD, or how chatting with him for a few days would expose his false identity or reveal his plans. In fact, looking at the news story it’s not actually clear what the time frame was for the dates in which he went on to rape women - it doesn’t say that he only victimized women willing to meet up immediately, and the interview seems to imply that he actually had some conversation with them online for some time before meeting in person.
Yes the police station is a terrible idea. That should be reserved for those dropping off their kids when there is a restraining order between the parents.
I have had absolutely no success when I have tried to tailor my first response to the profile. I’ve tried to be clever, funny, insightful… a generic “We look like a match let me know if you want to know more about me” has worked much more often.
I also suggest they pick a place they feel comfortable with going to. If they insist I pick then I will. I seem to not put out a creepy vibe at all since no one who has shown interest in me has seemed uncomfortable with meeting.
I would much rather meet sooner rather than later. There is only so much you can learn texting. If you want to drag it out for 6 weeks before you think about meeting sorry you are not right for me. I’m middle aged. I don’t want to play does she like me games. Let’s meet and see if we have chemistry and move on from there. If you don’t feel that way then you are probably closed off to having fun at all. I’m not applying for a job, I want to go on a date.
You’re being disingenuous. You responded to a post about the risk posed to women by meeting men they don’t know by saying that it was a myth and obviously not true when meeting someone at a coffee shop or restaurant.
If somebody’s missing an obvious point about that risk, it’s not the people you’re arguing with.
Like what? How long does it take to ask about your dealbreakers? Do you really need weeks of phone conversations? I find meeting someone once is a lot quicker than dragging out conversations.
I thought Honeybadgers didn’t give shit and did what they want…
For me, it’s only partly about safety. Any man who wants to physically meet after only 2 or 3 messages clearly just wants to hookup. Nothing wrong with hooking up, but be up front about it. If he wants an actual relationship he’ll get to know you a bit first before investing the time in a physical meeting.
Random note.
I’ve been checking out some of the major dating sites. And you see plenty of woman gripping that they have NO interest in a “friends with benefits” arrangement.
But one woman had a funny twist. She wasn’t having any FWB thingy either. But she ALSO had no interest in you having an “enemy with obligations” either
That is jumping to conclusions. I don’t have a particular time table but meeting sooner rather than later is better. Texting just doesn’t tell you what you want to know. And it’s not just a gender thing. I know plenty of women who don’t want to delay meeting so they can see if there is a spark. They don’t want a pen pal.
Lol, what?
laaaaaaaawl WTF
Look fellas, I get that it can be frustrating to discover that a woman isn’t interested in meeting you in person and that she’s likely only been chatting with you because she’s bored. But when you try to overcompensate by immediately asking to meet in person every woman who responds to a message of yours you come across as incredibly desperate and weird. That desperation is going to be ten times as obvious to anyone you’re talking to than it is here and it’s the least sexy thing ever. So everybody needs to slow their roll and stop putting pressure on themselves and the people they’re talking to. Please. For the sake of these poor women as much as anything else.