Sorry Lynn. Didn’t mean to confuse. Most of the XKCD strips depend on some uncommon esoteric knowledge. It’s just that I immediately thought of that strip when you were talking about your husband asking you to make him a sandwich in a very non-obvious way.
I should contribute something to the OP. My neighbors are slightly older than I and he is on disability for a heart condition and she has serious mobility problems. They don’t mow their grass very often, so I got into the habit of mowing their front lawn whenever I did mine. They seemed grateful at first, my lawn is huge compared to theirs, (I have a corner lot.) So it only added 5 minutes to the whole job. Then one time the Missus comes out while I’m doing their front and says “You don’t have to do that.” I replied that I knew that and was happy to help out. Then the next time I mowed, she again came out and said “You don’t have to do that.” and it finally dawned on me. (I make up for being slow by being extra thick as well.) She was really saying she’d rather I didn’t. So I don’t any more.
You shouldn’t have to say it, but as the wise people say, you can be right or you can be happy - your choice. If I have unsatisfying birthday or Christmases gift-wise (even though I am not at all shy about letting people know what’s on my list), I just go buy something for myself. Life’s too short to get too bent out of shape about stuff like this.
IMmaleO, Mother’s Day is a day spent with someone 20-something years older than you, not your wife. You get a mother’s day when the kid is old enough to appreciate you. Now, I know that a lot of people don’t see it that way, but husbands spend all year adoring the mother of his kids and hardly any time talking to his own mother. So it makes sense that when you have a wife going “Don’t do anything for me on Mother’s Day,” for the husband to go “OK, good, that’s what I was planning on doing anyway.”
When your kids are 2 or older, and he still isn’t doing anything for you on Mother’s Day, then you can complain.
Chessic makes a good point - maybe your husband doesn’t realize that you had expectations of him that he didn’t fulfill. I’d have a nice, non-confrontational talk with him about it; something along the lines of, “Honey, I’m a mother now, too, and while I’m not YOUR mother, I would really appreciate it if you did a little something special for me like making breakfast for me and getting me a nice card until the kids are old enough to do something for me.” If he ignores a plain language request like that, sorry about reproducing with him.
It blows my mind that there are guys who wouldn’t automatically think their own wife should have something nice (done by them, not the kids) for mother’s day.
Holy crap. :eek: Most men know not to dis mom or the wife on Mothers Day. Hopefully your husband just had a stupid moment. If I was still married I would’ve been spending some quality time on the couch.
Right, of course it’s not just women. I can also think of tons of similar examples of men saying one thing when they really mean something else. A man asking me “do you have the time?” or “do you have a light?” or “do you know where the water fountain is?” or “can I help you find something?” can really mean, “I like the way you look and would like to ask you out.” I’ve had to put up with that type of indirectness from men all of my adult life. And I annoy them when I ask them to directly state what they really want. Of course I know men ask me legitimate questions too, but I’ve certainly gotten countless ones that were very obviously illegitimate.
I also had a neighbor who’d point to a plant along the chain-link fence that divided our property and ask whether it was a weed or a flower. He claimed he didn’t want to mistakenly pull up any of my flowers growing along the fence, (which he had actually done a few times). But I realized much later that “is this a flower or a weed?” really meant, “lean down right here so I can look down your shirt.” :rolleyes:
Well there was the time when I asked a woman for what I want.
Me: Would you like to go to bed with me?
Her: WHAT??!! I DON’T BELIEVE THIS? You actually think that’s a good thing to ask a woman?!
Me: Yes
Her: No !!
Me: OK
We didn’t see each other after that. And that was OK. I’ve found other women who felt there was nothing wrong with asking exactly that. In fact, found it refreshing and said either “Yes” followed by * fill in whatever seems appropriate to you * or “No” and a very sweetly delivered elaboration.
What I did learn was that a woman who respected that style of communication on the subject of sex was a much better fit for me and I for her. No judgments. No right or wrong. The behavior was simply effective. And for a time, at least, we were happy together.
(Your mileage on the road to happiness and contentment may vary.)
I disagree. The “with me” can be inserted, but is unnecessary.
“Would anyone like to go to the movies?”
“Would anyone like to Wendy’s?”
They’re the exact same question. As a counterexample, you would NOT say, “Would anyone like to go to the restroom?”, you would more like phrase it this way: “Does anyone need to go to the restroom?”
Yes, it’s more expedient to use direct commands when communicating your needs with other people, but it’s not necessarily socially acceptable. People born into different cultures have different styles of communicating.
ETA: I’m referring to this specific phrase in the example given. Most of the other examples in the thread are less about miscommunication/culture differences and more about passive aggressiveness.
Yeah. It’s interesting because I was definitely raised with a bit more traditional “do not state what you want; do not be a bother” mentality (I’m only 28; not like I’m from An Old Generation or anything). I didn’t really realize it until my husband (then boyfriend) said how one thing drove him nuts.
We’d go to his parents’ house for dinner and get there early. His mom would always ask if I wanted water, pop, wine, whatever. And I would always always always say, “oh, no thank you, I’m fine” even if I was thirsty. I literally could not bring myself to just say, “oh sure, water would be great, thank you!” because it seemed so rude to do so, like I was some beverage hog and wanting to create work for her.
Even after several discussions about this, it took quite awhile for me to get to, “oh sure, [beverage] would be great, thank you!!” It was really hard to do this and I was convinced she’d think I was some jerk for accepting her offer, even though my logical brain knows that she wouldn’t offer if she didn’t want me to accept.
zweisamkeit: do you think you could explain how those behaviors were instilled in you? I mean, I doubt your mother said to you flat-out “don’t accept a drink even if you want one.” So if you could elaborate, I’d be interested.
We have this issue in my house constantly. I was raised in a family where you offer (and refuse) food and drink multiple times, every time. If you accept something without refusing it multiple times first, it means ither (1) they’re a bad host for letting it get to that stage, or (2) it’s your FAVORITE THING EVER, and you will be presented with mountains of it every time you appear for the rest of your life. We all pretend we don’t eat breakfast and sneakily eat on our own because otherwise there’s no way to avoid a giant production.
Mr. Mallard comes from a culture where you take what you are offered, to be polite, even if you don’t really want any. “I’ll just get myself a bagel later if I’m hungry” makes sense in his world.
To sum up: “No thank you” means “I’m just being polite; ask me again” in my world, “I am an asshole” in his. “Yes, please” means “you are a bad person” in my world, “I’m just being polite” in his.
I understand this in my head. It is not hard to switch systems if I think about it, but if I’m relaxed / stressed / not concentrating, I revert to “normal.”
As for the “male vs female” communication divide that people are talking about -
this divide really kicks into high gear when the female is deeply unhappy and wants the relationship to end, while the male remains clueless about the whole thing. Wackiness ensues like you wouldn’t believe…
zweisamkeit might have had a different upbringing, but in my case the behavior was reinforced through emulating adult behavior and getting positive reinforcement for it and just plain being told that I was being rude and greedy after the fact by my mom for accepting a little too eagerly what others were offering.
So, for example, if I was with my parents visiting a family friend and they offered me some candy, I was supposed to decline once or twice at the minimum with a deferential smile and allow the host to leave the candy at the table. The hostess would usually tell my parents how polite and well-mannered I was and I would be allowed to eat some later when the attention was not on me. If I had accepted readily, then she’ll feel the need to get more candy or some other food to anticipate my next desire before her job as a hostess was done. This refusal allows the hostess to feel like she’s being a good and generous host without having to do more work.
Once, when I was about 5, a cousin asked me if I wanted some toys while she and my family were visiting a Disney store. Like all kids, I said yes and she bought me a stuffed Mickey over my mother’s objections. My mom thanked the cousin, but afterward at home, she scolded me for saying yes since I was forcing the cousin to buy me something. My cousin would have bought me a toy regardless of my answer, but my answer wasn’t supposed to influence her actions.
Because of the cultural indoctrination I received, I used to have a really hard time asking for what I want. Among friends with the same background we usually start out using the same round-about ways of sussing out what we all want to do before we start laughing about how we’re becoming like our parents. We’re all getting better about it now though, but it creeps in when you’re not thinking about it.
Argh. My mom is just like your ex. I learned long long ago that any statement of hers that begins “I want to do [insert chore] this weekend” really means “I want to force you, your dad, or your brother to do [insert chore] for me this weekend.”
This is how I was raised too, more or less. Mom was very very careful to make sure I was seen as a well-mannered child. If you’ve never been in a military family, it’s a little hard to explain what life is like for an officer’s wife – particularly the wife of an officer who came a bit late to officering and already has a four year old child when all the other wives have newborns, and MOST particularly when you are a fairly solitary, introverted person by nature who is expected to throw parties every month or two.
So yes: don’t accept the soda or the Kool-Aid or the candy or snacks, even if you’re hungry. I’ll feed you when we get home if you’re hungry. Food set out on a sideboard is okay. Similar stuff about offering to buy things for you – luckily I looked to Mom and got the brief Glare Of Disapproval so I knew to say ‘no thank-you!’ As a result, I STILL – at thirty – have problems saying “Why yes, I would like something to drink!” or helping myself to fridge and pantry when I’ve been offered to. I have a dear friend who insists that I feel perfectly comfortable snagging a snack whenever I take the least fancy, but I explained to her that I will probably never manage this.
Well, part of it was just absorbing how my mom acted. She would always turn things down, even if she was thirsty/hungry, etc. My mom was my main parent (though they’re not divorced; y’know how that can be) and I just really learned how to act from her. Part of that was the “never be a bother” and also, “even if you hate it and will bitch endlessly when they’re gone, you do something that someone asks you to even if it really enrages you” (aka be a doormat) *.
Combine that with some good ol’ fashioned Catholic Guilt, and it’s a nice recipe for panicking at someone asking if I want something to drink. Even now, they (his parents) have said that I’m family and I can just go to the fridge if I want something and that is just not happening, ever. That is WRONG. NO NO NO.
I guess another non-relative example of this would be when I was about 8 and was trick or treating with my mom. I walked up to this one house and instead of them giving you candy, she had a gigantic bowl of goodies and said, "you can take however much you want! and I literally froze with nervousness. There was tons of stuff I liked but I couldn’t just take all that. I ended up taking a single Dumdum sucker and thanking her. She even looked a bit confused and said, “you can take more, if you like!” And I almost started crying because I didn’t want to look hoggish and take more.
Good example from just this year: my aunt and uncle apparently wanted to make some dumb beanbag toss game (plywood board thing with holes cut in that you try to throw beanbags into) and they just straight-up assumed my mom would make the beanbags. It literally went something like, “yeah, all I have to do is build these (wood things) and then for the beanbags, you’d just have to (blahblah)”. My mom was ranting after they went home… but eventually made them to shut them up. Sigh.
… and if your wife has children, the last time I checked, that makes her… a mother! :eek: It’s not exactly a huge leap of logic to think of that, for cryin’ out loud.
