Um, lemme get this straight.
If a child is too young to understand verbal instruction, then the loving thing to do is to beat the child with a stick for failing to understand and obey verbal instruction.
Um, yeah, okay…
Just exactly what god do you worship, anyway? Moloch, perhaps?
Hey fessie,
From the sounds of it, I think your husband is just kind of stressed out at this point. He started out well, but things can kind of add up after a while. Sometime when he’s not all upset you could try explaining the whole too young to understand thing.
But, look on the bright side, he’s not a brain-dead shell of a human being like Kel Varnsen - Latex Division is (for trying to force his rather shallow and sick interpretations of three thousand year old texts onto other people by tossing insulting and arrogant remarks around), so things could be much, much worse.
Hey Fessie, we’ve got a very spirited daughter, who at 21 months has yet to sleep through the night once. She is very curious, and will try anything.
Before she was born, my wife and I sat down and made sure we were on the same page in terms of parenting. Relevant rules to this discussion are 1.)no hitting. 2.)No yelling, 3.)No leaving her to cry it out. If she’s crying, we are at her side supporting her.
We have managed to largely stick to this, with only a couple of infractions.
We also try to stay away from the word “No”. We use phrases like “Not for eating, BabyFantsyPants”, “Not for BabyFantsyPants”, “BabyFantsyPants, that’s too far”, etc. And it works very well for us. We are very consistent. She gets told once in a serious voice, then in a very stern voice, the again as we physically guide her to the correct action.
And now, at 21 months, she listens almost completely consistently. I take her to the busy farmer’s market and let her run free, and she behave wonderfully, returning when I call her. Some things take up more time with this approach, but we made the commitment to give her the time she needs from us. It also means getting off the couch more. After 21 months, I’m a strong believer in this approach, and I’ve got the results to prove it.
Oh, and Kel, please please please never procreate, you gigantic arse. Hitting children is for weak-minded people who are too lazy to find a compassionate constructive way to deal with the situation. There is always a better way.
to get back to the OP might I suggest this book by Penelope Leach . We referred to it a lot while raising my daughter, and it has a lot of very solid, useful advice.
You know…it’s funny, I was just talking earlier tonight about some of the things that completely turned me off Judaism as a teen, and here Kel Varnsen - Latex Division comes and outlines one of the “principles” of religion my parents espoused, and I was taught as a (abused) child.
FWIW, I don’t talk to them anymore either.
I don’t think that’s true.
While at 10 months, they do need redirection, by 15 months (judging by my son, at least), they do know what “No” in a firm voice means. They don’t like the word, and they will howl bloddy murder, but they know. By the bye, what I mean by “firm voice”, is like giving a command. No a yell. Big difference. A yell should only be reserved for situations like where you turn around and the child is about to pull something on his head, and you need to stop him in his tracks.
When the children are being contrary, you’ll know. They’ll give a look at you as if to say, “I don’t care what you say, I’m gonna tug on the cat’s tail anyway.” That’s when they get 30 seconds time out.
That being said, it doesn’t matter if it’s a pain the ass to get up ten times to correct a behavior. It’s called being a parent. He needs to buck up to the fact.
Regarding the chorus of howling, I think it’s more like what Bill Cosby said: “Parents aren’t interested in justice. They’re interested in quiet.”
One stupid question, when was the last time you both went out for the evening? I would guess that you’re both getting tired and frustrated. I know how it can get with one, I can only imagine with two.
But there’s still a difference. A 15 month old will understand the word “no”, but that’s not enough information for him to process the whole situation. He can get frustrated, because he may not understand what he’s doing “wrong”. Which is why the more descriptive answers (“we don’t poke the doggy in the eye”) are supposed to work better than just “No!”
Kel, right now I’m hoping that the mods decided to mull this one over the weekend. Because otherwise, the way it looks is that people who ask about file trading software get immediate thread lockdown and warnings, but people who advocate child abuse get a free pass.
-lv
fessie, you do realize who you’re dealing with here, don’t you? Suddenly “Would you shoot and kill your child in this situation” seems to ring much more sinister.
snort That thread’s a gem - and you’re right, there’s something wrong with that boy. Hubby pointed out that his moniker doesn’t even get the joke right - it was Varnsen who needed to use the toity during the Puerto Rican parade (Saab salesman, right?), and Vandelay Industries who was the pseudo reference for George as latex salesman.
LordVor - I’ve been meaning to thank you for your excellent advice in my PPD thread (it’s been a tough year for both of us). I bought the feeding book you recommended and already had a copy of that Baby’s First Tattoo book, so I dug it out & reread for a much-needed laugh. You were a big help!
All you folks who are recommending a break for Dad are spot-on - and no, we don’t get out together except on rare occasions. Pretty much all of his free time went to volunteering for the Kerry campaign, so you can imagine how he’s felt since early November.
What I really appreciate about the advice here is everone’s general perspective which says look, struggling with one childrearing problem (albeit an important one) doesn’t mean one isn’t a good parent. It’s just a matter of acquiring more skills and information in order to be a better parent.
Yes, and you’ve broken it . In fact, I believe you break it with every breath you take.
You’re very welcome.
You’re right, I was being simplistic in my post. The “No” should never stand alone. The child must understand what behavior is undesirable.
“No!” only tell the child to stop doing something, but what?
“No! You don’t pull people’s hair.” Tells the child what he should stop doing. Of course after that, you get into the test of wills.
Armchair parenting just doesn’t work. I watched my now Ex try for years. The few minutes it takes to get up and rearrange things so that baby has something desirable to do is often worth ten minutes of sitting time. Put it that way and maybe he’ll be more willing. Kids require hands-on training for the first few years. And I don’t mean hands-on their butts. You have to interact physically with them and change the environment to be conducive to good behavior. A lot of teaching and patience comes before you can say “do this” and it happens. And when they start walking, it’s even worse. Yours are still at the relatively easy age. From now til they’re about three and a half or four, it’s a darn hard tiring job. Rotate the responsiblity, try to get a night out together, give each other time off and when it’s really frustrating, keep telling yourself they will get older, they will get through this stage and it will get better (at least in a physically tiring sense). When it’s all done, you’ll look back and it will just be a blip in the radar.
Great advice here.
I think one point from way upthread could bear repeating: a 10 month old doesn’t have the physical capability in his little brain to self-restrain. He actually cannot think of “oops I shouldn’t do that” or “daddy just said no, I better stop” because the wiring just isn’t there yet. Knowing that helped my husband understand that saying “no” means nothing to a baby. The way to start getting the wiring built in the brain is to say no plus redirecting or modeling the desired behavior. (I’m not psychologist, this is a layperson’s understanding of course) You’ll know your kids undersand “no” when they go to touch or do something forbidden and turn to look and make sure they are being observed first!
The getting out suggestion everyone has made is also a good one, but not only should you get out as a couple but he should get some daddy alone time too, and not just work. My husband comes back majorly refreshed if I send him out for an hour or two just go go be Not-a-dad for a short time.
Finally I’d like to recomend a book too, called the Happiest Toddler on the Block by Harvey Karp. I’ve found it very useful in understanding how to talk to my toddler.
Good luck!
Twiddle
I’m the father of a seven-year-old son and a four-year-old daughter. My wife and I are strict disciplinarians. As a result we almost never have to spank our kids, or even raise our voices.
Yup, yelling at babies is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It just wastes your time and annoys the pig. 
Hitting babies is mean as well as pointless. The things that come out of some “Christians” mouths … . :rolleyes:
You might take a look at The Discipline Book. My wife and I have found the Sears books to contain a wealth of good child rearing advice.
When the kids get a little older, you might also check out 1-2-3 Magic.
Maus when months become years, this will still be true.
No, you are not being off base. If he wants them to learn then he needs to use real age appropriate discipline. Yelling at them teaches them that he is an unpleasant loud angry person. It will also teach them to yell when they are mad to try to get their way.
Interrupting the undesired behavior, conveying what behavior is undesired and why, along with a one minute time out did wonders for my daughter starting at 6 months. As she has gotten older the time outs have become a bit longer, and now are often contingent on her behaving properly. (You can come out when you are quiet.) Yes, I realize that she won’t understand much of the explanation at six months, but as she often understands more than we realize, it paid off for us.
We found out just how much she understands the explanation when she howled with outrage and yelled “I did not! I did not!” when hubby punished her for something she did not do. Hubby gave her a time out for playing with the water dispenser when she was actually miming playing with the dispenser, kind of a game of “I’m not touching you!” for an only child.
Sometimes it will be just enough to remove them from the trouble and set them to doing something else. Other times time outs are needed. A lecture at a reasonable volume seems to server much the same purpose as a time out with the added fun of getting to watch them lecture their stuffed toys. Children do imitate. What you do to them, they will do to others, and maybe eventually to you.
I agree that hitting a ten-month-old is pointless and counterproductive.
That said, those who think that corporal punishment is always bad are deluded, as far as I’m concerned. I’ve never met a person (including all those in my family) who is suffering because they received a calm, justified spanking.
When my parents were yelling mad, they’d yell and send me to bed. When I’d done something sufficiently transgressive and they’d calmed down and considered it, I took quite a few licks with the belt or a wooden spoon, and I learned very well. Some kids are, shall we say, high-spirited and can benefit from that treatment. I certainly did–without it I would’ve steamrolled my parents and ended up in serious trouble by my early teens.
Note that I’m not talking about striking in anger–that’s always wrong. Period. But after a rational discussion about the issue, I think a whipping can provide the extra incentive that some of us needed.
On the other hand, in helping to raise my little sister I never used a spanking etc–because she responed to verbal discipline. Everyone is different, and a good guardian adjusts to that.
You know, that’s the one part of the bible that I believe, because it sounds like the sort of thing that son of a bitch would do.
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Enough already, Kel. I’ve been watching this thread closely to determine whether you’re sincere about hitting a baby with a rod, exaggerating to make some obtuse point or just plain trolling. Whatever your motivations, your behavior is jerkish.
Hitting a baby with a rod qualifies as child abuse. Don’t use the SDMB to justify illegal activities, no matter your justifications for them. We don’t allow threads about how to break the law: pedophilia, drug use, pirating music, breaking and entering, etc. or beating up infants.
Your pointed, and unprovoked, hatefulness toward other posters isn’t appreciated either. Consider yourself on notice that if you do not alter your behavior, you will lose your posting privileges.
TVeblen
Pit mod