Rape can be funny! (re: Shagnasty)

The BBQ Pit
101

[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Re the ashamed bit–obviously nothing but a direct statement, hopefully on his knees with sackcloth and ashes, would satisfy some of you. I think it’s implied throughout his posts in this thread. He mentions his daughters and how awful it would be to have something like that happen to them. When he was 17, he lacked that insight (as do most teens). He has mentioned several times that he regrets his actions, that he sees this as wrong etc. I infer shame from that (not end my life shame–more like twinges. And why should his feelings be as strong about this as some here? He’s known about this, lived with it for 17 years. It may be news to you all, but to him it’s a bad memory).
[/QUOTE]

Didn’t you give up on this conversation a couple of comments ago?

We get it, you think people are overreacting. I don’t think finding another stupid way to explain it (ie pitchforks, torches, on his knees) will drive the point home any more than you’ve already done. We get it, we get it.

102

What about a hairshirt? Cilice? Crucifixion?

103

[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
He mentions his daughters and how awful it would be to have something like that happen to them.
[/QUOTE]

Well, he writes that, but they’re young, right? Have a trusted friend of theirs secretly finger fuck them in the dark and give it 17 years.

Honestly, there is not an iota of regret in a story someone repeatedly copies and pastes. If he’d put his dick in her, would this still be a classic case of ‘boys will be boys’ (I mean, if he could have been convinced to do it in the first place then continued on – for 20 minutes – when it worked…)?

Teenagers are idiots, yes. If others would like to chime in with their own anecdotes of sexually assaulting a friend, please do. (Again, I have serious doubts about the verity of the story).

104

[QUOTE=Zebra]
Oh I agree with you. I also think the top probability is that this never actually happend at all.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that would be my ultimate answer.

It just surprises me that people would think this isn’t a huge deal if it did happen. Maybe it just hits a nerve with me because I’ve known people who have been raped or assaulted and often the tendency is just to brush it off as if it wasn’t a big deal or to claim that the victim was complicit in some ways. And yeah, this isn’t a normal case of assualt, but if it did happen, I think the point is that outrage is a normal reaction to something like this.

105

[QUOTE=Cat Fight]
Well, he writes that, but they’re young, right? Have a trusted friend of theirs secretly finger fuck them in the dark and give it 17 years.

Honestly, there is not an iota of regret in a story someone repeatedly copies and pastes. If he’d put his dick in her, would this still be a classic case of ‘boys will be boys’ (I mean, if he could have been convinced to do it in the first place then continued on – for 20 minutes – when it worked…)?

Teenagers are idiots, yes. If others would like to chime in with their own anecdotes of sexually assaulting a friend, please do. (Again, I have serious doubts about the verity of the story).
[/QUOTE]

I agree. But I’m not sure whether, if he actually had sex with her, he’d be so keen to post it on a messageboard 17 years later. Maybe THAT would have crossed his personal line, so to speak.

And there’s a difference, IMHO, in setting off a few bottle rockets and actually making bombs and destroying other people’s property with them. Or setting up a few controlled chemical fires and setting wildfires in the woods. Sure, I like bottle rockets and engines and playing with chemicals and burning wasps nests off the house gutters, but I’m not about to start a wildfire.

Likewise, everyone makes some dumb decisions with sex early on in life, mistreats women, or cheats on their boy/girlfriends, or gives someone an STD by accident, etc. This “prank” to me, is as far-removed from teenage normalcy as is setting large wildfires in woods (but it’s my own property! right, like if it bleeds on to someone else’s, you’re going to stop it :rolleyes: ) is to building campfires and tossing in a few aerosol cans.

106

[QUOTE=Cat Fight]
Well, he writes that, but they’re young, right? Have a trusted friend of theirs secretly finger fuck them in the dark and give it 17 years.
[/QUOTE]

Jesus, did no one actually read Shagnasty’s post?

All they did was make out. I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t be considered “rape” anywhere. And allow me to side with the others who think the girl probably knew, after all, how the hell could she not? And how could they manage to switch back without her knowing?

Come on, give this (possibly imaginary) girl some credit.

107

[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Jesus, did no one actually read Shagnasty’s post?

All they did was make out. I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t be considered “rape” anywhere. And allow me to side with the others who think the girl probably knew, after all, how the hell could she not? And how could they manage to switch back without her knowing?

Come on, give this (possibly imaginary) girl some credit.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, in one of the three times he’s mentioned this story, he says

Not sure what else, though apparently it required him to moan.

If the story sounds specious, it makes more sense to think he’s lying now vs. his friends lying to him then (making the unbelievable hoax even more unbelievable). Or that she was incredibly drunk, which would make him even more of a class act.

As Freudian Slit mentions, there is an odd parallel between reactions to this ‘prank’ and those to reported sexual assaults – dismissal, insisting the girl in question must have wanted it.

108

IIRC, someone wrote into Dan Savage with a very similar story, only this time it went all the way, and it was the guy’s brother, and no one had told the girl.

Savage pronounced it bullshit-someone had given Dear Abby the same story, and it had been around more than once.

However, if it DID happen, maybe it didn’t go all the way to rape, but it was still a pretty shitty thing to do.

But hey-at least he didn’t order milk in a bar!

109

[QUOTE=Cat Fight]
As Freudian Slit mentions, there is an odd parallel between reactions to this ‘prank’ and those to reported sexual assaults – dismissal, insisting the girl in question must have wanted it.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe because this case would be ultra flimsy if the girl were to scream “sexual assault” and attempt to have Shagnasty prosecuted.

Maybe my Law and Order fandom is showing, but honestly, how do you explain the fact that this girl didn’t know what was going on? Not to mention that Shagnasty would also have a witness that could say nothing sexual went on, just making out.

110

[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Maybe because this case would be ultra flimsy if the girl were to scream “sexual assault” and attempt to have Shagnasty prosecuted.

Maybe my Law and Order fandom is showing, but honestly, how do you explain the fact that this girl didn’t know what was going on? Not to mention that Shagnasty would also have a witness that could say nothing sexual went on, just making out.
[/QUOTE]

[Bolding mine.]

Making out isn’t sexual?? :eek:

111

Haven’t you heard? In junior high these days, tongue is the new hello.

112

[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Maybe because this case would be ultra flimsy if the girl were to scream “sexual assault” and attempt to have Shagnasty prosecuted.

Maybe my Law and Order fandom is showing, but honestly, how do you explain the fact that this girl didn’t know what was going on? Not to mention that Shagnasty would also have a witness that could say nothing sexual went on, just making out.
[/QUOTE]

I’ve got to ask– what do you think ‘petting’ is?

113

[QUOTE=Cat Fight]
I’ve got to ask– what do you think ‘petting’ is?
[/QUOTE]

Did no one catch the Law and Order reference? Nothing sexual that would get you locked up is what I meant.

And I’m still waiting for someone to explain how this girl didn’t notice someone totally different climbed back into bed.

114

In a dark room, I have no trouble believing that a self-conscious, sexually-inexperienced, and probably drunk girl could have been tricked.

115

[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Did no one catch the Law and Order reference? Nothing sexual that would get you locked up is what I meant.

And I’m still waiting for someone to explain how this girl didn’t notice someone totally different climbed back into bed.
[/QUOTE]

I thought that the person who posited that the girl did indeed know, but wasn’t letting on that was so because she didn’t wish to face further humiliation, probably was correct.

That’s what I think I’d do under those sorts of circumstances. Otherwise, if she’d have caught on fairly quickly and jumped up screaming, well, I’m sure she’d have been even more of a ‘joke’ to them. For then she might really be overreacting.

116

[QUOTE=Elret]
In a dark room, I have no trouble believing that a self-conscious, sexually-inexperienced, and probably drunk girl could have been tricked.
[/QUOTE]

But you begin to have doubts when you turn the light on?

117

[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Jesus, did no one actually read Shagnasty’s post?

All they did was make out. I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t be considered “rape” anywhere. And allow me to side with the others who think the girl probably knew, after all, how the hell could she not? And how could they manage to switch back without her knowing?
[/QUOTE]

It was basically a well executed magic trick which, again, I never thought would work. By the time I learned about it, the house, the room, and the goal had already been decided. The room was unusally dark for a bedroom and somebody had already thought that through for reasons that still elude me.

I will try to keep it short.

  1. I get into the closet with my shirt off.

  2. The boyfriend lures the girl into the bedroom and makes sure things are as dark as possible.

  3. They make out for a while.

  4. He says he needs to take off his shirt, stands up, and we quickly switch places.

  5. I get into bed.

  6. We make out for a long while. I would estimate about 20 minutes. This was not enjoyable because I was terrified yet preservation instincts just wanted the whole thing to be ignored and forgotten and I really didn’t want to get caught.

  7. During this time, I was trying to figure out how to switch back. It finally occurred to me that it could work the original way in reverse.

  8. I stood up, she asked what I was doing, as I opened the closet door. Her boyfriend answered and slipped right back into bed.

  9. I was stuck in that stupid closet for what seemed like forever. Finally, I just opened the closet door and just bolted through the door to the hallway. For anyone that wasn’t paying close attention, it just seemed like someone opened the door from the outside and closed it quickly.

Again, I still have no idea as to the purpose, the plotting, or why it worked so well.

118

[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
IIRC, someone wrote into Dan Savage with a very similar story, only this time it went all the way, and it was the guy’s brother, and no one had told the girl.

Savage pronounced it bullshit-someone had given Dear Abby the same story, and it had been around more than once.

However, if it DID happen, maybe it didn’t go all the way to rape, but it was still a pretty shitty thing to do.

But hey-at least he didn’t order milk in a bar!
[/QUOTE]
Hell yeah. Reading either the thread you’re posting in or the thread that it’s about is for suckers, am I right?

119

Please explain, Shagnasty, why it’s just a magic trick / practical joke when your ‘friend’ is the victim, but something too horrible to contemplate when one of your daughters is cast in that role?
When we read your excuses, many of us empathise with the girl while you protect your self image, I get that.

Why is your friend less deserving of your empathy than your daughters?
Why is it her boyfriend’s fault when you were the one who groped a woman knowing she wouldn’t have consented to that from you?
Why is it less shitty for her to experience than for one of your daughters?

Please read your previous answers as if you were her father, or her husband, or her.

At thirty-four you seem to be still making the excuses of an adolescent. It wasn’t your idea, it was only a joke etc.
You have the intelligence to know that your story will be used as justification for the same ‘joke’ being attempted by others - perhaps on your kids.
After all, they won’t be expecting it to work. It was just a stupid prank they heard Shagnasty tell about.
It wasn’t their idea, it was just a joke etc.

120

[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
IIRC, someone wrote into Dan Savage with a very similar story, only this time it went all the way, and it was the guy’s brother, and no one had told the girl.

Savage pronounced it bullshit-someone had given Dear Abby the same story, and it had been around more than once.

However, if it DID happen, maybe it didn’t go all the way to rape, but it was still a pretty shitty thing to do.
[/quote]

Guin, did you read the thread at all before you posted? 'Cause damn.