:smack:
I swear, I did read the thread-but not very closely.
Just forget it. :o
In fact, I think I’ll just go and drink a big glass of milk. From my kitchen.
You know what, she kissed a guy, and got felt up for 20 minutes. If that’s the worst that happens to her, she’s pretty damn lucky. The onus was more on her boyfriend than Shagnasty. There are women getting actually assaulted and raped, maybe we could reserve our outrage for them?
And it’s not just a boy issue, girls have definitely tried it, too. If they were having phone sex, and he impersonated his buddy, would it still be assault? Or cybering in this day and age? Is that sexual assault?
Is it a breach of trust? Absolutely. Is it sleazy? Pretty much. But is it a condemnation of his entire existence? Please, people, give it a rest.
Are we so fragile now that we are permanently scarred from 20 minutes of teenage groping and stupidity?
ETA-I’m a woman, and I have 3 daughters. Would I like this to happen to them? No, not particularly. But I also have confidence that they would be ok, kick his ass, break up with him, and get on with their life.
20 minutes of teenage groping and stupidity that she thought she was doing with her boyfriend. Because let’s face it, if she couldn’t catch on to the fact that Shagnasty and his buddy pulled the old switcheroo, why would she believe other drunk morons who insisted that’s how it happened?
It’s too ridiculous for words.
I think Shagnasty is only guilty of passing off fantasy as reality. I don’t believe the story for one second.
It’s not the groping, it’s the being laughed at afterwards.
actually, groping (at least in Michigan) w/o consent is a sexual assault, perp would be registering as a sex offender.
Actually, it’s the dope not greeting ridiculous stories with due skepticism. It’s clearly a ‘funny’ story about a sexual assault designed to generate pages and pages of outrage. In fact, I think it’s the also punchline to an old costume party joke.
Bless you, fisha, for words of wisdom. I agree with your take. I think the girl was in on it (or figured it out–how do you NOT know that someone else is now kissing you?) I don’t recall reading anywhere that she (or anyone else) was drunk.
I’m not outraged and think that; 1) this is a story, 2) in that context, the female knew she was being fucked with and chose not to say anything to risk further ridicule, and 3) if given the same consideration, how are we to assess exactly what is under the umbrella of ‘petting’?
I mean, I think perhaps more disdain should be shown if our storyteller had his fingers in her vagina, you know? Should that scar someone for life? Probably not, but you never know the other circumstances surrounding the situation, like how head-over-heels she might’ve been regarding the boyfriend. Then should Shag be castigated for life because of it? No, I think not. But something might be said for the fact that he tells this story repeatedly enough to have it copied and pasted as a pre-saved document. One that he shares only in pranks-type threads, not others. And as some have highlighted, his choice in words to describe his feelings is somewhat at odds with what you might believe given someone regretting their actions.
So it doesn’t have to be all one way (as just a silly prank!) or the other (as a sexual predator!). I think it’s okay to recognize the middle ground here, as some have tried to do.
[aside]All that said, I find it very interesting that the same people who were appalled at the subservient tones of freekalette’s marriage are okay with this sort of behavior from a man who now has two daughters of his own. I would assume that as free as he is with this information, that they’ll someday hear of this. I wonder what they’ll think of their father and how that translates to what is okay for men to do to them? Will they see him as disrespecting women in general? So wearing dog collars / kneeling / and playing at servitude is bad, but actually having some sort of sexual congress without someone’s consent is apparently no big deal. Because one model’s behavior even if it’s not obviously sexual? And the other just talks about how it was acceptable? Um, got it?[/aside]
Not to mention that he and his friend ran around and bragged to everyone except the victim, as evidenced by the fact that their entire group of friends had to tell the victim about it. Apparently, they were as disgusted as I am, which is telling, considering that these are people who can supposedly stand Shagnasty otherwise (ie, his friends).
I think the two situations are rather different myself. Especially this one, where the most likely scenarios are (in this order)…
- Shagnasty is making it all up. Or if it’s real…
- The girl was in on it from the start
- The figured it out as soon as the switch took place and made out with Shagnasty to piss off her boyfriend
The things freekalette described sound completely out of this world. And if she’s completely telling the truth (which I began to doubt as the thread went on*), I truly just feel pity for her at this point.
- taco taco taco taco Taco Taco Taco TACO TACO!
Agreed. I think they are completely different too.
If Shag’s story is real…
[ul]
[li]He honestly did this non-consensual act.[/li][li]He has daughters now that he wouldn’t want this to happen to.[/li][li]He talks about it still. At least quite a bit, on an internet message board where it can be found by all and sundry.[/li][li]Many feel he’s not upset by, and doesn’t regret, how he behaved. That can all impact his children and their futures. Not to mention the other things he ‘listed.’[/li][/ul]
If freek is telling the truth…
[ul]
[li]The things she described (IE: the dog collar), could conceivably be going over the heads of her kids as to what those things really mean.[/li][li]She is having constant dialog about how these things don’t translate to all people.[/li][/ul]
I just think it’s odd that many folks were calling her truly horrendous things and yet this (an actual can-point-to-it-as-a-not-good-thing-by-a-participant) is lauded as no big deal. All I’m saying is I find that interesting, to say the least.
I wonder what kind of conversation(s) Shag will have with his girls about it some day. Or if at all.
Quoted because I agree pretty much with everything. Having read his story, while it may be impossible to prove he’s just making it up, it sure sounds that way. I like the part about the “unusually dark room” in contrast (no pun intended) to normal bedrooms which must just be “usually dark.”
When you think about it, if the room is completely dark, shutting out all light, then they did a damn good job of finding the bed and the closet. Anything less and her eyes would have adjusted and she would be able to see his face.
If this event did happen, and if the alleged girlfriend wasn’t in on it, then the only reason she wouldn’t have figured it out is if she were pretty dense. Not only can’t she tell the difference between kissers, and body parts, but she speaks as scripted, at all the convenient times. She also can’t tell the difference between laugher coming from the same room and outside.
For ** freekalette**, my comments can be seen in that thread.
Hey, now, that’s not fair. How do you know he wouldn’t?
Because he said:
The same magic trick he pulled on his friend, which isn’t even one of his major regrets - lighting fires on his own property was a bigger regret than this.
I notice he’s also gone from:
to:
Which is why he now seems like a sullen teenager saying it was just a joke and not even his idea anyway, when earlier he’d been boasting over and over about how clever he was to has pulled off such a neato (and not nearly so bad as it sounds) joke.
I’m not getting into the morals of what he did - I’m just intrigued by the changing attitudes.
His idea when it’s funny, someone else’s when it’s sexual assault.
Kinda sick yet funny when it’s his friend, too awful to think of when it’s his daughters.
Everyone’s entitled to an opinion on his morals, he just seems to have two.
Anybody surprised?
Anyone?
I didn’t ask you, crickets!
Gee, after reading the other thread again, maybe it was Shagnasty is the victim in all of this. Look at this quote from post #13, bolded for my emphasis.
He was doing it against his will, giving him a basis for reasonable doubt. Well now don’t we all feel foolish for accusing him? He’s got plenty of excuses.
I found this interesting as well, amusing even. The shrillest voice of his defenders here is someone who had nothing but disdain for freekalette, but is defending shagnasty to the hilt in this situation. One wonders about her thought process.
Oh, don’t be coy, this is the pit. If you are going to try to impugn someone, at least have the good graces to name them , so they can defend themselves.
So, if you had a 17 year old son who did the exact thing Shagnasty did, you would think that justice was served by him being a registered sex offender for the rest of his life?
Every time he moved, having to register, having to disclose it to all employers, his kids schools, his neighborhood?