Really? Hadn’t discussed ANY of this beforehand on your, what was it, moonlit hayride? Or did you not know beforehand that the room would be unusually dark?
I know several people have said this several times, but this ‘she really wanted it’ theory (and yes, that is what it is) is all well and good, but aside from being even more unbelievable than the story itself, it makes NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE if Shagnasty had no clue.
The only way this whole story makes any sense to me is if Shagnasty was meant to be on the receiving end of the joke somehow…I dunno…otherwise it just isn’t very believable.
The story is 100% real as presented. People claim that many of my stories are false even the famous milk in the bar one. If I knew how to make up mundane and ambiguous stories like that which will get a huge reaction from people, I would be a very talented person indeed. I have just lived in interesting places and known interesting people. Much of that is more bad than good but it does create some interesting stories if I cherry-pick the strange ones from over the years. This one falls into very strange but not admirable or pleasurable category. I still feel guilty about it but I was confused as anyone else and I don’t think anyone got hurt. For all I know, she published this in Penthouse Letters later.
BTW, light petting in this case just means the occasional boob touch through a bra. I was also a virgin at the time and probably couldn’t figure out anything more if I had too.
Cue Wonder Years Theme Lyrics
Oh, baby I get by with a little help from my friends
By with a little help from my friends.
All I need is my buddies
By with a little help from my friends
I said I’m gonna get by with a little
By with a little help from my friends
Whoa oh oh oh oh
WONDER YEARS THEME?! Is that where you think that song is from? Truly? Honestly? That’s so much more disturbing than anything else you’ve ever posted.
I guess I’m in the minority here, but I just can’t seem to get worked up over Shagnasty’s story. Was it wrong? Sure. But I’d be a liar if I said I did not find an element of humor in it. Rape or assault? Not sure what the legal definitions are, but I would personally not characterize his actions as either.
Yeah, I’m sure she knew all along and secretly enjoyed it. :rolleyes: Also, a mob of your boyfriend’s friends telling you that he tricked you into being groped by someone else isn’t hurtful at all.
I don’t think you’re a rapist, but your increasingly weak ways of justifying this behavior as a replacement for any kind of genuine shame means that you’re unfit to be a father to a pair of daughters. Maybe if some “confused” 17-year-old took advantage of them some day, in cahoots with someone they’re dating, you’ll realize that it’s not just an “interesting” story to be written off as a folly of youth.
Oh it had nothing to do with being coy. You didn’t name names, were you being coy? And impugn? Let’s not be dramatic, shall we?
I’m (of course, you knew this) referring to eleanorigby.
Well put. People wonder how the girls they date have so many “issues” yet they don’t grasp this thought. Trust issues start somewhere.
First it was joining into their love-making session, now it’s occasional boob touching through a bra. If he keeps posting here, it’ll soon be Eskimo kissing and hand holding.
Do I think it’s rape? No. Sexual assault? It would really depend on what was truly done, and I don’t think we’re ever going to get the truth. I do think it was an especially shitty thing to do and I don’t buy the “I didn’t want to do it!” protests or his claims to not know decency.
Unless there was a gun to his head, he willingly took part in an attempt to fool this girl in a sexual situation. By his own words it’s something that doesn’t even rank in the top 100 bad things he’s done. My mother wasn’t the impressive educator he claims his mother to be, but she taught me that hurting people and deceiving them is wrong. One can hope that shagnasty’s wife comes from better stock than he does so she can teach decency to their daughters.
My wife did come from better stock than I did and our daughters are most of my life. Teenage boys do stupid things. It doesn’t mean that I would do something similar at 25 let alone 34. That is the way maturity works. We have all done things that we regret at a younger age and wouldn’t do at all as the years pass. To think otherwise is continued, immature denial. Females of all ages have been my biggest fans to this day. I am certainly not known as a misogynist let alone anything worse than that.
It’s a moot point, but I think the real issue would arise if he had sons. Would he raise them to have respect for women?
So many people lock their daughters in a tower, to protect them from other people’s sons. So few people think to raise their sons to be the kind of men women don’t have to be protected from.
Perhaps if in your multiple tellings of this story you stated that you are ashamed of your behavior, rather than being proud of pulling off a scam, this would be a bit easier to believe.
Well that girl you played the “trick” on? She was most of someone’s life, too.
Right. Well, then when some teenage boy does something “stupid” to your daughter, everything will be okay, because boys do stupid things to girls. You won’t get angry, you’ll understand. The boys who molest your daughters against their wishes will be fine, upstanding citizens in 5 years, so no harm no foul, eh?
You used that girl as a learning experience in your own private, pitiful morality development, so it’s okay for some schlub to learn a lesson in maturity by abusing your daughter?
Oh, hey now - those teenage boys will only be groping his daughter’s tits for twenty minutes without the girls’ consent. They’ll refuse to acknowledge it the next day (or *ever *to the daughters,) even while his daughters are being mocked in public.
Those boys will consider themselves **friends **of his daughters.
Pehaps Shagnasty will help his kids draft their Playboy contributions?
If he were not only unrepentant but proud of the trick (as evidenced by his keeping it saved for copying and pasting to Internet forums regularly), then yes.
Color me unconvinced.
You know, for someone who prides themselves on being accepting of many different lifestyles, you sure can be an uptight, judgmental prick in some areas.
Proud of the trick does not a sex offender make, and there is room for debate for the assumption.
Sad and pitiful, perhaps. Labeled as a sex offender for the rest of his life for groping some girl as a 17 year old? Shit, about 80% of the men I know would be sex offenders.
If we dilute the meaning, what’s the point?
First of all, did you mean to sound like Yoda?
Secondly, I was actually thinking of this thread in the back of my mind this morning as I drove home from work. There was a story on the radio about a guy caught drunk driving for the second time after killing someone driving drunk 2-3 years earlier. What a moron. To be honest, I have been guilty of driving while under the influence of alcohol, in fact I believe most of my friends have stupidly done this. I have never been caught, caused an accident, or been charged with a DUI. It’s been many many years since I’ve actually done this. I’m 28 now, and the last time was probably a Christmas party over three years ago.
To do so now, I would consider that tremendously irresponsible, and I look down on the act completely. I would hope, and be proud never to ever do this again.
In defense of Shags though, that last time I did do it. It’s a pretty fucking funny story. I secretly escaped a party, realized I shouldn’t have been doing something immediately after I started doing it, acted stupid, almost died, and wound up stealing a giant tin foil ball.
I can tell this story at parties, and my friends would laugh, giggle, and share moments of their own stupidity. I am blessed and lucky to not really know anyone who has had a loved one taken away from them by a drunk driver, and I would be sure never to try and tell this anecdote to them, because that’s just wrong, and I’m sure they wouldn’t find it funny.
Well, I have no daughters, and no sexual abuse history, so maybe that’s why I can somewhat understand why Shags may have thought this was a good story. in fact I did think it was a good story, creepy yes, but an interesting tale of being young and being stupid. Which was why I started this discussion in the first place.
I’m not really sure what else to add, thanks all for an interesting thread.
Your experience is probably the exception. Open a thread on this if you like and you’ll be shocked at how many boys were into blowing stuff up. I’d have difficulty naming a boy who didn’t in my high school which was at the time a top-10 rated school in our state and had about 150 boys in the graduating class, of which I knew ~100 very well. Boys of all backgrounds in general like explosions.
I certainly did my share of groping when I was 17, too. The key difference is that my partners consented. The rest is just details, but there are plenty of them:
I’ve never fooled someone into providing sexual services to someone they wouldn’t have otherwise, and I would be very disappointed (to put it mildly) in any friend of mine who did so.
If I had committed sexual assault, I can’t picture myself saving it in a text file on my computer so I could copy and paste it into Internet message boards regularly.
I also can’t picture myself bragging about it to all of the girl’s friends. That’s just sick.
I’ve never been responsible for a young girl hearing something painful, embarrassing and potentially scarring from all of her friends.
If I did all of that and then laughed about it with strangers decades later, not being able to live within a mile of a school would be getting off easy.
To the contrary, I think it’s a perfectly serviceable definition. I think most non-sociopaths would be horrified, not proud, at having committed sexual assault.
I’d be glad to hear your argument. I honestly have no idea about how you can assume anything other than pride in this situation.
If it’s wrong to be an uptight, judgmental prick about sexual assault, arson, and the laundry list of other crimes he’s committed (many of which he’s backpedaled from, rather unconvincingly), I don’t want to be right.
Owning your bad behaviour doesn’t excuse it. Equivocating an evil is, in itself, another evil. More importantly, no one escapes their karma. He may feel he’s learned from this and is now a better person. I, for one, wouldn’t be surprised should the universe serve him up another portion of ‘learning’ on this issue. It’s pretty clear, to anyone with an ounce of empathy, he still needs some.
Before his journey his through, I predict he will get a chance to feel the sting of the other side of this issue. Someone he knows, loves, cares deeply for, may be victimized in some similar fashion. It’s just my opinion, of course, but what you put out always comes back at you.
When you use your intellect/powers to diminish or equivocate your participation in any evil, going so far as to post numerous times about it, the universe is going to lay a smack down on you.
Nothing we say is going to penetrate the tight little acceptable package he has wrapped his actions into. He’s had seventeen years to tie that bundle up and is so proud of his efforts he often repeats it/posts it.
Karma’s a bitch, and it’s coming for you!
Karma, and zombies.