I was sexually assaulted 3 times between the ages of 13 and 14.
I do have some bondage & domination (with a little S&M) fantasies. And yes, in most of them, I’m being taken advantage of without my consent, even though I’m (secretly) consenting.
I guess one could call that rape fantasies…and no, I don’t see anything wrong with them but they’re not things I talk about.
I dated a couple women who said things like “rape me” and “choke me” during coitus. I think that qualifies as acting out a rape fantasy. FYI it freaked me out. Maybe if they hadn’t said it the second time we had sex I would have been OK with it.
IANAPsychologist but my opinion is that rape fantasies by women who have been raped/sexually abused are a way of dealing with the trauma and powerlessness of a past situation.
I knew a girl who I strongly suspect was the ‘Saying no while meaning yes’ type. She would repeatedly come on to me strongly but would say no when I tried to take things to the next level, then look at me like she was waiting for something. May have been related to her having been sexually abused when younger, could also have been related to her feeling guilt over wanting me (she was married). I would have problems ignoring a ‘no’ from a woman even if she told me 5 minutes before it was OK, so I never had sex with this particular woman.
I also dated a girl who fantasized about being ‘taken’ by a fully-clothed man while she was naked. I helped her act it out a couple of times because she wouldn’t say no or really resist, I’d just maneuver her onto an appropriate piece of furniture or whatever, unzip, and screw (she preferred to be naked whenever she was at home), but I can see similarities to the rape fantasy. This same girl also enjoyed having her hair pulled during sex and slightly degrading dirty talk.
Not all women who have rape fantasies have them because they’ve been raped and are trying to deal with it. I’ve never been rapedand yet I have a raging rape fantasy. Most of the things in the fantasy, I would never want to be acted out, but there is a portion… a toned down version you could say, that I would be more than thrilled for my boyfriend to agree to.
The problem with rough bondage and really harsh, demeaning language is that most of the time you don’t ven broach it untill you’re with someone you love and trust, and usually it hurts that person to do it to you. My boyfriend knows how I feel, and what I fantasize about, but he doesn’t feel right about doing more than the milder things because he’s afraid he’ll hurt me. It’s an odd conundrum. You can’t reveal that side untill you’re comfortable with the person, and by that time the person cares too much to give it to you.
jarbabyj,
I just wished to comment that just surviving a rape and returning to a comfortable state of mental health strikes me as a remarkable achievement. Adjusting to the point where one can not only discuss the traumatic event, but also discuss the topic of “rape fantasies” strikes me as a phenomenal achievement.
Maybe, but not necessarily. I’d say they were more like “spy” fantasies. You get captured, you get roughed up, you have sex for the purpose of getting information from the enemy, and, because its a fantasy, you successfully complete your mission. But getting roughed up is part of it.
The danger in the fantasy pumps andreline into your system, making the fantasy more exciting.
There are rape fantasies. There are sex fantasies, and there are romance fantasies. My romance fantasies almost never involve sex. My sex fantasies often involve sex that I’d never do in real life and seldom involve romance.
This has been a very interesting thread, and I’d like to thank everybody for being so frank and straightforward. It is certainly a difficult topic.
Like some of the other men that have posted, I’ve had fantasies of having complete and utter control over women and using that control in harsh ways. I also recognize that I’d never act on these feelings to the degree in my fantasies. That being said, my SO has really responded positively when I’ve become extra physical in our “fucking” (and I use that term not to be coarse, but to acurately describe the act - it isn’t lovemaking or having sex - its “fucking”). I found myself pulling her hair, calling her degrading names, holding her wrists hard enough so that she cried out, etc. but also paid close enough attention to know that she didn’t want to me to stop. I have never felt guilty about the activity.
I’ve never asked her if she has a rape fantasy, but we’re open enough and love each other enough that I will and I’m sure that she’ll give me an honest response. She’s a psychotherapist as well so maybe she’ll be able to give me some insights into the dynamic. Of course, she may not be able to do so at all - sometimes we can’t explain things like this no matter how hard we try.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
Well, thanks for saying that. Like I said, it wasn’t the worst possible rape I could have suffered. I mean, I escaped alive, without cuts and bruises and I managed to get away from the guy…but it was certainly terrible. I dont’ really talk about it a lot.
But I thought about this subject a lot last night and remembered when I was 12 or 13 and just starting to think about these things, I decided to check a book out of the library on ‘sexual criminals’. Imagine my shock to find stories of chopping women up and putting them in barrels, or mangling their genitalia, or beating them within an inch of their lives! I remember saying “oh, no, that’s not what I’M talking about”.
i recognize the difference, but it’s still not something i really really really want to happen. I mean, I no longer go out at night hoping I’ll be kidnapped. I mean, how would I get to the boards then? 
jar
Here is another analogy. Rape fantasies can be kind of like watching Die Hard. No one really wants to go through what McClain goes through in those movies. They are violent, bloody. He gets hurt, alot. Part of the attraction is that he wins in the end, but that isn’t all of it.
My husband will play violent computer games against his friends of the first person shooter genre. Sometimes in those games you die, sometimes you don’t. They are enactments of a violent fantasy you wouldn’t want to participate in in real life. But they are exciting.
I find this debate immensely interesting and more than a little horrifying.
I dated a girl in college who had some serious issues and who did not believe in sex before marriage (note that I list these as separate items :)). At one point, she had to go on the pill to regulate her period. She kept this information secret from me for a long time, which wound up causing an almost Poe-like breakdown in her ability to communicate with me at all. When the news finally came out, she confessed that she had had to keep it a secret from me because (and I’m paraphrasing here) she “knew” that if I found out she was on the pill there would no longer be any reason for us not to have sex.
When I pointed out to her that the reason we weren’t having sex was because she didn’t want to, she responded that she didn’t think that if there was no threat of pregnancy, the other would matter to me and I would act accordingly.
And that was it. To her, I was a potential rapist.
:sound of Knead’s head exploding, taking practically of his self-esteem with it:
Now, here’s why I mentioned above that she had serious issues. I can now look back (a lot of therapy later) and honestly say that she would probably have seen any man in my position as a potential rapist. But at the time, I didn’t have the benefit of all this therapy. I took it personally and it crushed me. To tell the truth, I still haven’t recovered completely. In sexual relationships, I am almost completely dependent upon the woman to make the first move. I always had that prediliction, but now it is nearly pathological.
What has all of this got to do with rape fantasies? Only this: I can imagine the potential for disaster it would be to be a man like myself to be involved with a woman who harbored rape fantasies, or even a very mild form of them, say a need to be taken charge of or told what to do and how to do it even if only to assuage the “dirty girl” self-image. That’s the “more than a little horrifying” part of my fascination with this thread.
woah there, gender prejudices? you are completely right–you can’t give a broad definition to the pyschological tendancies of female-kind, but you can’t do that for anything else either. of course there are going to be women who have weird-ass scary rape fantasies, and other women who couldn’t even imagine of such things, but we’re trying to figure out the motivation and tendencies of the MAJORITY of women who have these fantasies. that will not be all, or maybe not even half, but at least a good portion. and no, this will not help us understand these women in the slightest, but it gives us TOOLS and MEANS to know how to get to know them and understand them.
these are great analogies. i often play games like this, especially one called Soldier of Fortune, in which you can kill people, blow off appendages, set fire and blow things up, and generally cause simulated chaos. but i don’t have any desire to be violent, hell, i’ve never even punched another person (and there have been several times where it would’ve been appropriate)!
this is a great point. in my mind (and nobody get offended, i’m gonna make some more generalizations here), the amount of social assertiveness in women could be charted on a line, with one extreme being the man ALWAYS making the first move, and the other the woman ALWAYS making the first move (sorry this is all so heterosexual, but the OP is in relation to this, so that’s my focus). now take someone like KneadToKnow (hope you don’t mind if i use you as an example), who is afraid to make the first move, and put him together with a woman who is the same. this simply doesn’t work. KneadToKnow’s approach is not wrong, in fact, it is considered by most a gentleman’s approach. but the two may never connect because of this. now, like the degree of social assertiveness, chart the degree of sexual aggressiveness on a line. women can be very forward, but not aggressive, or not forward, but very aggressive. let’s say this woman is not forward, but aggressive, and may even have rape fantasies. even if she hooks up with KneadToKnow, she will never be satisfied because his instinct is to respect her and let her set the level of aggressiveness.
i said it once and i’ll say it again: women need to explicitly tell their man what they want. they should tell him not only how far would be too far, but also how far is not far enough.
Why are some participants in this thread assuming that having a rape fantasy = desire to have it acted out? It doesn’t. At all. Fantasies are escape from the mundane. I do not want to be raped, and I don’t enjoy “playing” rape with lovers, no matter how highly trusted. Rape fantasies, though dark and disturbing, are also exciting to some.
Just like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Hellraiser.
Just like Quake and Resident Evil.
Just like The Shining and The Damnation Game.
Fantasies are not required to be about good things. More importantly, fantasies are not required to be about things you actually want to happen.
Most people play violent video games, see scary movies, wonder how they would feel if they suddenly found out their parent/spouse/child/pet had died. People want vengeance, lust after people they can’t have, construct elaborate imaginary scenarios in which they say exactly the right cutting thing to someone they dislike. And yet we all function in society: we do our work, we obey the law, we express love and joy and satisfaction. “Harboring” a dark fantasy has no impact on how one lives, acts, interacts or makes a moral decision.
Beadalin,
I was thinking the same thing.
Rape fantasies are generally fantasies - they exist only in imagination for every woman I’ve ever discussed it with, and no one has any desire to have it carried out - not playacted, not rough sex with the hubby, these things are completely and total seperate from the fantasy.
Kind of like playing Doom, or watching Die Hard. Just because you imagine yourself being the hero on a hijacked plane, doesn’t mean you ever, ever, ever want it to happen.
I don’t have what I would call rape fantasies, but I do have bondage fantasies and I do like being held down during sex sometimes. For me it’s an issue of the release of control. In most of my life, I feel the need to be very in control of the situation. At work, I have to be, or risk the loss of very expensive artwork. All of that control is exhausting! It’s very liberating to have someone else take charge. I can see where a mock rape could be enjoyable from that standpoint and also from the standpoint of feeling like someone desired you so much they couldn’t resist you. (Fun when it’s someone you can’t resist either–Rhett Butler–horrifying IRL, when it’s say, some stranger at a bar who follows you out to your car.) Obviously, most fantasies ought to be discussed with your partner before hand–whether you are female or male–first of all because of the trust issue, but also because what someone might not naturally do, they might feel comfortable exploring in a committed relationship.
Based just on women I’ve known over my lifetime, rape fantasies are probably more common than many men think they are.
I personally have never been raped or assulted, but I do have rape fantasies. I think that assuming the fantasies are a result of sexual trauma is misleading; they could be the result of that, but then where do mine come from? And given some of the things I’ve imagined, please, God, let them never come true.
They are indeed dark fantasies, and not to be discussed, neither among loved ones nor anonymously via internet. Part of the reason that these are fantasies, and not something I choose to act out, or to have forced upon me, is that I remain in control of what takes place. My fantasy will never go to far, nor is there actual physical pain.
I can easily imagine a bondage situation that in my mind is a thrill. In real life, the same situation might cause blisters, make it hard to breathe, or some other unforseen irritation that would keep it from being sexy at all. In fantasyland, the ropes never chafe - unless you want them to. This dividing line between real and imaginary is why a “safe word” is a good idea for couples exploring the boundaries. I’m sure that most of us, whether male or female, have at one time or another fantasized about a particular position that turned out to be akward, unsatisfying, and damned annoying.
Purely personal opinion here, but women’s fantasies also seem to be more bizarre and fantastical. A number of the scenarios described in Nancy Friday’s “Secret Garden” are not remotely possible; I recall a woman who imagined herself as an Earth Mother figure, a form of plant life with deep roots. I’m sure she didn’t really want to be a vegetable, but the emotional connotation was sexually arousing to her.
Do men have “out there” fantasies as well? Or is it more likely to be the girl next door? I’d like to know, if anyone is willing to share.
It could also be, maybe a curiosity thing. Like, sometimes I think, what would happen if I were hit by a car/get a horrid disease/etc etc …
You don’t want it to happen in real life, but you fantasize a WHAT IF.
I like Beadalin’s line of reasoning.
Don’t we take pleasure in fantasizing about all kinds of unpleasant things happening to us that we don’t actually want to happen? In a qualitatively different way than we are curious about the behavior of others or watch movies?
Have you ever had fantasies about your own funeral? The scene of your own death? I use these examples because it’s easier for others to map them onto their own minds, but they have the same gravity as something like rape. Sexuality is harder to translate between preferences.
To me, putting yourself in someone else’s place or enjoying a story (in any form) are at heart social acts, different from fantasy. Fantasies like the ones you are discussing, about sex and death happening to us, feel like much darker water to me. It’s almost as if our actual thoughts are following emotional cues, not dictating them, so analysis of the details of the fantasy has limited relevance.
-fh