"reasons" for breakups

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
201

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
Cruelty sucks, meanness sucks, selfishness sucks–we’re all guilty of these impulses but we can be nicer if we set our minds to that goal. But if we blithely intone, “Ahh, shit happens, whaddya goin to do?” then shit will indeed happen.
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I think we can all agree that cruelty sucks, and that gratuitous cruelty should be eschewed – but I think there’s more than one way to not be cruel, and saying “a ‘good’ breakup consists of x, y, and z” doesn’t acknowledge all the myriad ways that a relationship can go bad, and the numerous ways that a dumper can take the dumpee’s feelings into consideration during The Talk. And there’s huge amounts of gray area between “It’s been real, byyyyyeeeeeee!” and “I am scum for dumping you.”

202

[QUOTE=twickster]
I think there’s more than one way to not be cruel,
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Take the way that feels best to you, most soothing to your ego, most puffing-up of your sense of pride–and don’t do it.

203

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
I appreciate the apology. Sorry for going off on you.
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No problem. I’m just glad you recognize that I’m actually sincere here, not just trying for cheap shots.

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]

Most memorably, I made one sweet and lovely 19 year old
feel like a sexual freak because she was still a virgin. She went out, lost her virginity, came back to me, and I found an even lamer excuse to break up with her at that point, all because I couldn’t handle the responsibility of being in a stable relationship at that time in my life but couldn’t face that nasty fact.
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And I can almost guarantee (having been a 19 year old girl myself, and still being capable of serious insecurity) that she would have believed that had she been the right person, you would have been able to handle a stable relationship. In this case, you wouldn’t have said anything more helpful than “It’s not you, it’s me,” had you told the ‘truth.’ Question: did you realize at the time that your real reason was an inability to ‘handle the responsiblity?’ And, for that matter, if the absolute perfect woman had come along then, don’t you suspect that you would have been able? The fact is, when push comes to shove, any reason for a break-up short of “I have to return to the old country to support and care for my dying mother” boils down to “I don’t love you enough to want to stay with you.” And that’s always going to feel lousy to the dumpee, even if they weren’t all that happy in the relationship either.

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
Cruelty sucks, meanness sucks, selfishness sucks–we’re all guilty of these impulses but we can be nicer if we set our minds to that goal. But if we blithely intone, “Ahh, shit happens, whaddya goin to do?” then shit will indeed happen.
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The thing of it is, no one here has been arguing that you should be callous, mean, cruel, selfish or indifferent. The argument has basically been about which approach is the kindest, not that the dumper should just blow the dumpee off out of laziness or pride. Or at least that’s what the rest of us have been arguing about, and opinions obviously vary. You seem to have the idea that those of us who disagree with you do so because that they don’t want to be bothered, and in most of our cases, that’s simply not true. We’ve taken the approach that seemed the kindest, the best for all. And in my experience as a dumpee, in fact is the kindest. Obviously, YMMV, but we all have to do as our experience suggests is best.

204

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
Take the way that feels best to you, most soothing to your ego, most puffing-up of your sense of pride–and don’t do it.
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Why is it necessary for the dumper to commit emotional seppuku to satisfy you? Why is any effort at kindness seen to be about the dumper’s inability to be honest?

205

[QUOTE=twickster]
Why is it necessary for the dumper to commit emotional seppuku to satisfy you? Why is any effort at kindness seen to be about the dumper’s inability to be honest?
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You’re not talking about dumpers’ attempts to be kind. You’re talking about dumpers’ attempts to get the fuck out now with no real thought for kindness.

If it makes things easy, if it makes things fast, if it stays on the surface, and leaves the dumpee puzzled and wanting some further explanation–well, those are some pretty good signs that you’re being selfish and unkind in the manner of breaking up.

This is an emotional crime you can usually get away with scottfree. I know, I’ve done it many times and afterwards regretted doing it. But it was easy at the time, I had friends assuring me how right I was to dump the fucking bitch and be one of the guys again HA HA HA and if I’d had online friends at the time, I am sure I could have found much consolation online, too. It still wouldnt have been right. Those were nice girls. I should have been more careful of their feelings than I was. Looking back, I’m unhappy with my behavior, and wish I’d done more to salve their wounds and put more of the blame for the breakup on me.

Maybe I’m the only person who’s ever been dishonest or unkind in breaking up with someone. as a means of avoiding my real issues. Frankly, what they needed wasn’t high on my list of concerns. What I needed was. If could do many of my breakups over again, I’d do them far differently.

(If I could do my lovers over again, I’d do them far differently too.)

206

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
You’re not talking about dumpers’ attempts to be kind. You’re talking about dumpers’ attempts to get the fuck out now with no real thought for kindness.
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I’m not often accused of unkindness or lack of empathy – but since you’ve never been present for one of my breakups, I’ll chalk this up to total projection on your part.

207

[QUOTE=twickster]
I’m not often accused of unkindness or lack of empathy – but since you’ve never been present for one of my breakups, I’ll chalk this up to total projection on your part.
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And I’ll chalk up your chalk up to total defensiveness. You’ve been calling for people to be abrupt and blithe, if they feel like it, in breaking up wth someone, and that’s my basis for assuming you would be unkind, your self-affriming solid track record to the contrary.

Why don’t you sell tickets next time, and we can get a few hundred unbiased witnesses? :rolleyes: Like I said, I guess I’m the only person here who has been selfish or unkind in engineering a breakup.

208

Selfish, perhaps – unkind, not deliberately.

pseud – empathy isn’t a statement (“If that person were me, s/he’d feel like this…”), it’s a question (“If I were that person, how would I feel?”).

209

I’ve been with someone for “however” and then something happens that makes me go from “smoke in my eyes” to “ugh!” in 90 seconds - I’m really supposed to give a more complex reason than “I’m sorry but I don’t want to see you any more”?

Finding out that you’ve having smoke in your eyes is bad enough, last thing I needed was to spend a few hours trying to rationalize what happened to the fire.

(In the one instance where that happened, his reaction was to go down on bended knee and say “will you marry me?” Uh… noooooooo)

210

[QUOTE=Nava]
I’ve been with someone for “however” and then something happens that makes me go from “smoke in my eyes” to “ugh!” in 90 seconds - I’m really supposed to give a more complex reason than “I’m sorry but I don’t want to see you any more”?

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Well, yeah, in that case – when you do a total 180 in a minute and a half – I think some kind of explanation is necessary.

211

Would you just LISTEN to yourselves for a moment? “I’ve never done anything I regret in the way I’ve broken up with someone, ever. Not me. Uh uh. Whatever I’ve done, however hurt the person felt, however callous it was or however much it suited my agenda of jetting–still NOT MY FAULT! I’ve always comported myself as well as I possbily could have, and I’m 100% satisfied with how I’ve engineered my breakups in the past and will pursue that blessed policy in the future.”

212

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
Would you just LISTEN to yourselves for a moment? “I’ve never done anything I regret in the way I’ve broken up with someone, ever. Not me. Uh uh. Whatever I’ve done, however hurt the person felt, however callous it was or however much it suited my agenda of jetting–still NOT MY FAULT! I’ve always comported myself as well as I possbily could have, and I’m 100% satisfied with how I’ve engineered my breakups in the past and will pursue that blessed policy in the future.”
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Again – who, exactly, said anything about never regretting how they handled any breakup?

213

I don’t see where its kind to say “I’m shit, and I’m dumping you.”

Furthermore, you are demanding sincerity. How can I sincerely say “I’m horrible for doing this to you?” when I sincerely believe that it is best for both of us to cut ties as soon as possible.

I can say “I’m sorry if this hurts you” but I can’t say “I’m sorry I’m breaking up with you” or I wouldn’t do it. I can say “I’m sorry my feelings for you aren’t as deep as you would like, or as deep as I’d hoped they were.” But I can’t say “I’m shit for having or not having these feelings.” At least, I can’t say that and be sincere.

Moreover, when it comes down to sincerity, what I’ve discovered is that they guy who dumped me for the girl with bigger boobs has dated plenty of small breasted women - was once engaged to one. I’d love a guy who danced, and married one that has little interest in it. All those sorts of things don’t matter when you do make the connection, so that those “excuses” ring hollow. And if you made any of those excuses during the break up, then end up with someone who doesn’t dance (because it turns out that isn’t a criteria for soul mate) and the original partner discovers it - now they feel like shit because you were obviously lying - and they feel like shit years later. “That bastard broke up with me because he didn’t want kids and I did, then he married a woman who had two and they are expecting another!!!”
’

214

[QUOTE=twickster]
Again – who, exactly, said anything about never regretting how they handled any breakup?
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Did I miss the part where you discussed your selfish manuevers in a breakup situation? Let’s talk a little more about that one.

215

[QUOTE=twickster]
Again – who, exactly, said anything about [*i]never ** regretting how they handled **any ** breakup?
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That was one breakup. I’m 52 years old and never married. There have been others, not all of which I’ve handled well.

216

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
Did I miss the part where you discussed your selfish manuevers in a breakup situation? Let’s talk a little more about that one.
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All breakup maneuvers are selfish. They’re never done for the benefit of the one getting dumped. Why pretend otherwise? When you break up with someone, you do it for you. For your benefit, for your peace of mind, for YOUR reasons. Sometimes they’re good reasons, but they’re always selfish ones. Selfish does not necessarily equal bad.

217

You want the real, honest to Og translation for “I want you to want to go dancing with me”? Really? Okay, here it is:

I want you to take me dancing, but not because you’re trying to placate me or get into my pants. I want to be important enough to you that a couple times a year you crawl out of your own priorities and interests long enough to say to yourself, “Self, you know what would really tickle the girlfriend half to death? If I took her out dancing, just because she likes it.” Or barring that, I’d like to be important enough that the fact that it makes me so happy could make you at least a little bit happy.

Incidentally, that’s also the translation for “You never bring me flowers,” “Why don’t you take me to the airport anymore?” and “You’re a selfish fucking pig who never thinks of anyone but himself.” The flowers, or dancing, or whatever the hell you’re arguing about aren’t the actual problem. Yeah, she wants the flowers/dancing/whatever, because those things are nice and she enjoys them, but those things aren’t what she really truly deep down wants. They’re just a symptom, an outward sign of an inward state of being.

And, to be perfectly honest, from what you’ve posted here, it sounds like you either didn’t have that state of being, or weren’t doing an effective job of communicating that to the girl who used that line when dumping you. In her place, I’d probably think that you either didn’t care enough about me to to know what would make me happy, or you knew but were too lazy and selfish to make any effort. Neither of those conclusions exactly make you seem like the catch of the county, if you see where I’m going with this.

That kind of stuff will flat-out kill a relationship. It’s weird to say that about something that seems so piddly on the surface, but it’s true. Each little incident is a small cut–it may sting like a sumbitch, but you’re not going to bleed to death just from that. It’ll heal up if you give it some time and maybe a bit of Neosporin. But you pile on cut after cut after cut after cut after cut…eventually a person will bleed to death after all. And it’ll be a slow, very painful death.

With relationships like this, the dumper has usually hurt so much and for so long that by the time it gets to the dumping point, they really don’t have the emotional resources left to deal with somebody else’s hurt feelings. That, or they’ve developed enough resentment that as far as they’re concerned, you and your hurt feelings can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. So they make statements they think sum up the whole reason they’re leaving, and the dumpee stands there gawping and asking “What? What did I do that was so horrible?” And the dumper gets frustrated with trying to explain what’s apparently a completely alien concept to someone who it hurts to deal with, and they just give up and walk out.

218

[QUOTE=tlsapp76]
You want the real, honest to Og translation for “I want you to want to go dancing with me”? Really? Okay, here it is:

I want you to take me dancing, but not because you’re trying to placate me or get into my pants. I want to be important enough to you that a couple times a year you crawl out of your own priorities and interests long enough to say to yourself, “Self, you know what would really tickle the girlfriend half to death? If I took her out dancing, just because she likes it.” Or barring that, I’d like to be important enough that the fact that it makes me so happy could make you at least a little bit happy.
(…)

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And that, exactly, is what **p r r ** is asking for: Take a few minutes, figure out what is really bothering you, and try to communicate that feeling to your soon-to-be-ex-significant-other. (If you do that BEFORE you break up, you get bonus points ;))

219

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
And that, exactly, is what **p r r ** is asking for: Take a few minutes, figure out what is really bothering you, and try to communicate that feeling to your soon-to-be-ex-significant-other. (If you do that BEFORE you break up, you get bonus points ;))
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Ah, but therein lies the rub. If you have to have that particular conversation, you’re already by definition not ever going to get what you want. The whole flippin’ point is that you want him to do things like that of his own volition, because you and what will make you happy is high up on his radar, not because you’ve nagged him into it, or because he’s afraid you’ll get pissed and leave if he doesn’t.

If you actually have to ask for stuff like that, you’re pretty much wasting your time. Sure, he’ll probably do it for a while, but once the crisis is past, things tend to go right back to the way they were. Because it’s simply not a priority for him. Your choices are to periodically nag at him about it and always feel like you’re not as high on priority list as you’d like to be, or to just pack it in and go try to find someone for whom you are a priority.

220

[QUOTE=tlsapp76]
Ah, but therein lies the rub. If you have to have that particular conversation, you’re already by definition not ever going to get what you want. The whole flippin’ point is that you want him to do things like that of his own volition, because you and what will make you happy is high up on his radar, not because you’ve nagged him into it, or because he’s afraid you’ll get pissed and leave if he doesn’t.

If you actually have to ask for stuff like that, you’re pretty much wasting your time. Sure, he’ll probably do it for a while, but once the crisis is past, things tend to go right back to the way they were. Because it’s simply not a priority for him. Your choices are to periodically nag at him about it and always feel like you’re not as high on priority list as you’d like to be, or to just pack it in and go try to find someone for whom you are a priority.
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I guess it depends on your point of view. If you think people can’t change for the better, maybe you’re right, it would be a waste of time to try. However, I still believe that if you bring it out into the open, convincingly, the other person might make an actual effort to better him/herself. Who knows? Maybe in a relationship like that he/she might give YOU some pointers that might improve any weaknesses you have…