… how much detail would you want to hear about that while having the “it’s over” conversation?
(See the discussion in this thread – we really get going on “it was because the sex was bad” starting around post 116).
Pseud would want that spelled out – it has been my impression that most men don’t want to hear they’re not wonderful lovers. Of course, he’s a guy, and I’m not (though I’m guessing I’ve slept with a lot more men than he has) …
So, poll:
You’re a dud in bed, and the woman is therefore dumping you. How specific should she be that that’s the reason?
Ignorance is bliss…But seriously it depends. If she was saying it just to hurt me then I’d rather go without, if she wants to make a few suggestions that are constructive I’m all for it.
I’m not a guy (or, I hope, a lousy lay!), but the time to tell a guy that he doesn’t make you happy in bed is NOT as you’re breaking up with him. Why go there, if it’s too late to make any difference? Especially since “you’re a lousy lay for me” is not the same as “you’re a lousy lay”. What doesn’t work for me may well make some other woman squirm in ecstasy. Nowhere does mileage vary more than in bed!
Understand, please, that in MY imagined scenario, the subject has come before in non-breakup spots, AND the guy is asking for further details now, after “I’m just not happy.” Twix, please clarify if that’s not the scenario you have in mind.
Well, I’d say the woman has some part to blame if she didn’t discuss this with the dude before breaking up with him. I mean jeez, it’s not like we’re mind readers or anything.
Also, people need to learn if you can’t please yourself; how do you expect anybody else to? (And I’m not just talking about masturbation here.)
I say one shouldn’t mention it. It’s far more likely to generate hurt feelings and insecurity with future partners than improvement. If a guy’s sexual problems are something that can be improved via constructive criticism, the time to do that is when you’re having sex with him, not when you’re done with him. Once you decide he’s hopeless, or the two of you just don’t work together, focus on letting him go as kindly as possible. You don’t have to lie, but you also don’t have to deconstruct things in painful detail.
The scenario I’m positing is that the two have been together for a while (say, more than a year), and that numerous discussions have occurred about what might improve your sex life, and that none of these discussions have led to actual improvement, for whatever reason.
And, DianaG, I’m absolutely agreeing that “not right for me” necessarily means “hopelessly incompetent.”
But – given that you’ve both given it the old college try, and that you’ve discussed the matter on multiple occasions over your time together, and that you are enjoying sex with this person so little that you’d rather break up with him than have sex with him ever again – do you say that?
If she dumps me because of that, I’d think “Whew! Got out of that one easy!”. Seriously, if she’s so mindbogglingly dumb that she dumps me over that instead of talking to me about it… good riddance. I’ll go find someone with above room-temperature IQ. Centigrade.
I’m not exactly Ron Jeremy, if you take my meaning, but I can’t really see this happening. She has told me what to do different, and it’s still wrong? Or are you saying that we simply like so different things that we can never have good sex together?
Not about equipment – and not about specific acts – just the overall experience. For lack of a better explanation, it’s as though you’re each just … wired differently … in how you experience the, um, experience.
Oh, and the Ron Jeremy reference wasn’t about equipment by the way, but about experience. I haven’t exactly had sex with ten thousand women or whatever he’s managed.
If you can’t explain it, then don’t bring it up. Simply saying “I’m non-specifically non-plussed with you sexually” will provide him with no useful illumination to take forward into the rest of his life.
Been there, done that. An ex of mine basically thought it was my problem, that I couldn’t enjoy sex, or that I couln’t enjoy sex with him, so it was pointless for him, for us, to really try and change our ways in bed. With a previous girlfriend of his the sex had been very good, so I thought he was justified in assuming the problem was me, or our (lack of) match.
My ex jsut didn’t really know where to begin to change when is asked us to, and, frankly, the idea of changing his ways was a bit insulting to him.
When I got a lover (we were in an open relationship) with whom the sex was very good, my ex just said that he wasn’t foolish enough to try and compete with the “novelty value” of my lover.
So the situation twickster describes is familiar to me.
When we broke up, I didn’t elaborate on the sex. We both knew our sex wasn’t the best we both ever had, and we both thought that when there is no match, really no-one is at fault.
I’d want to know, but not right away. After the emotions have subsided, and some kind of dispassionate critique is possible. In fact, I may ask my ex with whom I broke up with two months ago, since she was seriously not interested for the last few months and I’d like to know if it was anything I did or didn’t do.
I probably don’t represent the average/stereotypical guy here.
However, in twickster’s case, since you don’t really have any specific and potentially constructive criticisms, I wouldn’t want to hear anything more than something vague like “we didn’t connect” or “there was no passion” or whatever. Saying “Oh, by the way, you’re lousy in bed” is just mean if you can’t add anything else.
For the record, this is a breakup that took place more than ten years ago. The context of the other thread is pseudotriton ruber ruber is arguing that the person dumping has an obligation to be completely honest about all the reasons the dumper has for wanting out of the relationship – I was using this as a counterexample of a time when complete honesty would do nothing but hurt the dumpee’s feelings, to no good purpose, and that I was justified in leaving it as a rather vague “it’s not you, it’s not me.” Pseud said if he were not pleasing the woman in bed, he’d want to know about it – I’m trying to ascertain whether most men agree with him or not.
If we’ve had numerous/multiple discussions about it and presumably you haven’t given me a sign that things have improved, then surely I’d have to be some kind of moron not to have some idea that was at least a big part of why you were breaking up with me. So in the specific situation described, surely I would already have a pretty good idea and you would know this. Bringing it up would be kind of redundant in those circumstances. In other words, either I’m an idiot and I have no idea that’s a major part of why you’re breaking up with me, or I do know in which case what’s the point? We’re already talked it through many times during the relationship.
I have to say I’m wondering what the specifics of the numerous discussions were given that this is apparently the best explanation of the problem you can give us… but that would definitely get into TMI territory. Besides which, it would be none of my goddamn business.