See? Boring. Anyone can do it. Not even one of my better efforts… I just threw it together, and I’m not actually upset.
I’m just passing along what I’ve observed, in the two years of lurking and the two years of posting. The person who handles things with the most dignity and the most maturity wins in the end.
But as long as you’re having fun, well.
Enjoy yourself.
You know, it’s usually threads like this that attract me to the Pit in the first place, but this is just ugly. White Lightning, dude. Buddy. Please get a mod to shut this bloody mess down. It’s just photons; it’s not worth the aggravation.
Do it for America. <cues phonograph of vaguely patriotic music>
Pheeew! Glad to know that wasn’t “one of your better efforts” dude, 'cause quite frankly, it sucked donkey’s dingleberries.
Please advice when putting forth a better effort for actual grading purposes.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from the Internet, it’s that you should never be surprised that someone doesn’t realize you’re being satirical. It’s not stupidity, it’s that others have said the same things and actually meant them.
If there’s a second thing I’ve learned from the Internet, it’s that pretty much everything is sexually arousing to someone out there. The world is a very freaky place.
Much as I’d like to see this go away, I don’t think closing the thread would do it. This is, after all, the third thread this particular sequence of shit-flinging has infested.
I say keep it open in much the same way that you’d institute an official red-light district.
I’m just not sure where this thread is going.
One thing - probably the biggest thing so far - that I’ve learned in life is this: if you want to resolve something, don’t be antagonistic about it. Of course, sometimes you’re not actually interested in resolving anything and just want a barney about it. Which is fine. But to come to any kind of resolution it is vital to see the other side’s point of view and empathise.
So here is White Lightning’s point of view: Reverend was, basically, rather obnoxious. As I understand it, he took a controversial argument from one thread and inserted it into another where it didn’t necessarily belong, thus ensuring that the argument continued in the new thread where it didn’t really have any place. Understandably, WL was not overly fond of this behaviour and wished to point this out. When he tried to do this, Reverend responded by reiterating his old argument position and ignoring WL’s actual complaint - not exactly what White Lightning was looking for.
And here is the situation I understand Reverend to be in: after making what he though was a salient point, he was attacked by not a few people, including many that I must say appeared to completely misunderstand what he was writing. He was accused of many rather unpleasant things and suddenly found himself the subject of a pit thread in which, regardless what the OP itself may have said, a pile-on was rapidly snowballing. This pile-on included accusations of trollery and sock-puppetry as well as attacks on his character. Now Reverend is no internet newbie, nor is he new to flamefests, so what does he do? What any of us old timers would do - attack back. And boy, is he good at it. The pile-on is joined by those who actually run the board - a moderator - dredging up messages written a long time ago on message boards far far away. The battle steps up a gear. He is under siege.
(Not that I would wish to impune UB either - he most certainly has his perspective too: someone who was trying to calm things down and got dragged in. But if I start addressing each and every position this will take all morning).
I think that both of you could do with looking at the other’s position. And I think that everybody else that is joining in on one side or the other could do with asking themselves just why they are here and what they hope to achieve. And then maybe we can see that this is totally a storm in a teacup and the real, intelligent people on the other side of the screen are responding in they way that they are for a reason. Then we can take some deep breaths and start again.
C’est magnifique… mais ce n’est pas la guerre.
The irony is that I suspect in different circumstances White Lightning and Reverend may actually have got on quite well. Both are witty and argue well in their corner and neither are mugs. Ah well.
pan
ah, but in order for there to be peace, both parties must be invested in peace.
Not on a message board.
E-Sabbath
All very amusing, but all it proves is that you can write incoherent crap, not that I write incoherent crap.
Protesilaus
That may, but never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. And the dumbfucks are out there, from the people outraged by Bonzai Kittens to most recently Hispanic people all pissed off by satirical comments made by Barry Humphreys in the guise of Dame Edna, they seem to be a completely renewable resource.
I did enjoy UncleBeer’s faux indignation, just for the utter cluelessness or disingenuousness of it, arguing that my comments were not Swiftian because “Making poor “humor” over the tragic deaths of teenagers is in extremely poor taste.”, blissfully unaware of the content of A Modest Proposal.
Besides, I wasn’t making humor over the tragic deaths of teenagers. I was mocking a poster that wanted to attribute all sorts of sociological insights to American school shootings while ducking a school shooting in Germany that was even more efficient.
Is a school shooting fair game for mockery? Sure. One of the easiest things to “mock” is the post hoc ergo propter hoc “reasoning” of people who calim that because Eric Harris played Doom, and created Doom wads, that therefore first person shooter games are directly responsible for the shootings. One can mock Klebold and Harris for not only their sheer incompetance but also for the nasty egomania of people who don’t cut to the chase and just kill themselves and instead find it necessary to take people with them. It’s the same egomania that I mocked in the reference to Kip Kinkle. One can mock the appallingly gutless response of the police in the Columbine shootings that essentially left a school full of targets at the mercy of two punks with guns and allowed some victims to literally bleed to death.
Of course, these same sort of unimaginative, plodding, humorless people will always be able to say that because one simply doesn’t write satire about innocous subjects. What seems to offend people like this is not so much the “poor taste” but their irritation over having to perform onerous taste of having to read the subtext, to get the joke. For them everything should be simple, ernest, predigested pablum.
Of course, that’s assuming I take UncleBeer’s indignation at face value. I don’t. I think it is 99% pure put on by someone who decided that cheap mock indignation is a much easier stick to beat me with.
** 2trew**
And I would like to extend my heartfelt appreciation to the flamers, shit-flingers and pitters for opening this thread and no surprise at all that they would like to see it just go away now.
kabbes
Well, since it was started as a pile on, I am sure the folks who started it think it is way off topic now.
Actually, if one is going to make a big stink about whether or not people who have personal experience with cancer have greater moral standing to comment on Pat Robertson’s cancer, I just think its important to note Robertson’s past behavior. I reiterate: It’s one thing to note Robertson’s cancer and distaste for his religion. It’s another to note Robertson’s cancer and understand his complicity is scamming people with cancer. They are two different things.
So before anyone gets on their fucking high horse and rants about how their hamster had cancer and therefore no one better say anything about Pat Robertson’s prostate, they better understand Robertson’s history of turning people with cancer towards faith in Jesus and an earlier grave after siphoning their wallet.
And if someone thinks that observation is off topic or a hijack, well, too damn bad. There was nothing in the OP that prohibited salient points.
No, I didn’t ignore his complaint. I ignored outrage that someone had for bringing up a point they didn’t like. Again, Robertson’s faith healing past was something I brought up distinct from previous people’s distaste about his religion or politics and is much, much more relevant than either.
And who got upset everytime I interrupted their strawman ranting to inject what my actual point was.
And let me tell you, the sound of the spitballs and nerf footballs bouncing against the battlements is terrifying.
Nah, horseshit. UncleBeer wasn’t trying to calm anything down. He interjected himself into the discussion to relate the “unsavory” things he discovered and then presented a year-old post written as pure sarcasm as evidence that I thought school shootings were cool and the Texas Tower Sniper was a hero. What a dipshit. Of course he didn’t insult my intelligence, just everyone else’s.
And right after that we will throw some empty barrels into Love Canal and hope the toxic waste spontaneously recollects itself in them.
A comparison between me and White Lightning? Now you’re just getting nasty.
I have read both threads thoroughly. I have paid attention and comprehend every word. I even know where you’re coming from, but ya know, regardless of your underlines, caps, and bold lettering, I still feel the same way I felt when I wrote my posts.
::shrug:::
Also, why are you letting his lack of empathy for PR work you up in such a lather? I mean seriously, you’re going to give yourself a massive aneurysm.
I truly hope I am not pissing off a few of my good friends here, but I gotta admit, the Rev is fucking awesome! I haven’t been this entertain or come this close to peeing my pants for months and I am really going to be sad if he is run off the board. Seriously.
Okay, you’re not malicious; you’re stupid. Happy now?
Reverend - I never said that you personally were upset by or couldn’t handle being under seige. Just that when someone is under seige, you shouldn’t be surprised when they fight back. Which is not a conducive environment to conflict resolution.
And yes - you have valid complaints. I can most certainly see that. Now can you see why White Lightning has his complaints. Why, if in the same situation, you may even have reacted in a similar way?
And don’t give me any crap about it being due to him being dumb or anything - I know WL and I know that he most certainly is not dumb. If he is upset it isn’t because he doesn’t comprehend what you are saying or is too stupid to follow your arguments - it’s because you actually did something that seemed wrong to him. And no - reading the thread it, the thing he found wrong is not your opinion of this Pat Robertson character, whoever he might be, or what you wished on him. It is that he felt - rightly or wrongly - that you carried over an argument from one thread to another. You don’t have to apologise for that. You don’t even have to think that you did anything wrong. But you should recognise how it could upset someone and figure that you’re better off shaking hands on it than continuing this all-out flame war.
pan
UncleBeer
Typically pointless and non-constructive, UB. You are very consistent though.
What’s stupid and malicious are the people slamming me for my posting in the mhendo thread.
The original thread by Spiff expressed satisfaction over Pat Robertson’s cancer because of the hateful things that he said, with a number of people chiming in that his remarks were despicable because their uncle had cancer, etc.
So mhendo starts a thread asking if this sort of reference to personal experience is justified. Please note, again, that the original thread contained disgust at Robertson’s religion and politics only. In the mhendo thread the OP contains:
Right, if your Uncle’s cancer has any bearing on this, what about the cancer that people had that Robertson claimed to cure through Jesus? Does that have bearing?
Despite the way White Lightning spins it, my initial post was not “I’m only sorry he has only one prostate to get cancer.” It was:
In other words, the perception of Robertson’s cancer cannot be informed by just reference to his religious views, but the relevancy of your uncle having cancer and Robertson scamming him. If you think your uncle’s cancer is bad, how about being prey to Pat Robertson or some other faith healer. Shouldn’t your perception of Robertson’s cancer and your urge to think your uncle’s cancer gives you special standing also incorporate views to Robertson’s consistency and hypocrisy? If on one hand you fault Spiff for being callous to Robertson’s suffering, then what about Robertson’s callousness and cynicism in exploiting the very same thing for with you sympathize?
That’s not relevant? I’ve read the original Spiff thread and posted to it and no one, absolutely no one, brought up the Robertson faith healer connection.
What it basically comes down to is that someone who either didn’t understand the point, or wished to dismiss it had a hysterical hissy-fit because someone, me, didn’t stick to the program as they saw it and, smelling blood, a bunch of similarly blockheaded people decided to get on the bandwagon because they thought flaming someone they perceived as a “newbie” would be fun.
Happens all the time now, I’m told.
kabbes
No. I certainly would not have flamed someone for raising a point. Maybe White Lightning isn’t stupid, but he certainly didn’t read for content or ask for clarification.
Now, what he did was immediately open up another thread intended for personal attack, apparently under the impression that pitting the newbie would be easy and fun.
It’s the sort of stupid and cowardly thing I wouldn’t do.
You will also notice in the same threads that where people had a modicum of intelligence and could carry out a discussion I responded in kind. And when someone, on a hair-trigger, opens a thread announcing that a new poster is a “fucking tool”, he deserves to get his teeth kicked in, mercilessly, forever.
OK, so he’s just an asshole.
And, being the embodiment of tact, civility and intelligence the very first thing he does is open this thread and then not even give a fair account of my argument. He writes:
You say that he is not too stupid to get my point. Fair enough, then to what do you attribute a brainless, viscious distortion like that?
I don’t know. Is a tone being set here?
Oh, wait, it gets better:
And the very first thing I did was show that was untrue. In fact, I was comparing Robertson to Phelps, not myself to Robertson. Where did White Lightning get that? He obviously misread it or just made it up because it suited his purposes much better than the truth.
You say White Lightning doesn’t have reading compresension problems, brain lesions or what have you, then what do you attribute his very first post in this thread containing ad hominem, strawman distortion and a bald-faced lie?
Sorry, the asshole is irredeemable. No deposit, no return.
As you can see from above he though all sorts of things that seem to conflict with reality.
Well, after that sort of introduction to this board all I can do is shed a tear for poor upset White Lightning who is pure in word and deed and obviously only has the best intentions.
Uh…no, wait, now that I think of it:
Fuck him.
I agree. It was a very harsh intro and this is one of the few places on the net where a poster is expected to treat his or her own pitting with appropriate gravity and legitimacy. The only appropriate response to a pit thread featuring oneself is “Fuck You” and all variations thereof. Some people do things different here - good for you guys, some others think it’s bizarre and childish from the outset, and say so. Whoo-hoo! Democracy.
I thought I did. Had it gone on as a debate (and I guess there’s no reason it had to) I’d have continued arguing the point that faith healers and their adoring minions comprise the problem there. Most people with cancer are not “intolerant, crazy…fear-mongers” but what if they are members already in good standing of the 700 club - then what are they? If they do get sick, and fully expect a miraculous healing via PR…well, I’m still having a hard time working up additional sympathy for the would-be victims. But YMMV, should it turn back into a real discussion I’m still interested.
Yeah, yeah, I know I said I was leaving this thread but it’s as if there is a gravitational pull here and I cannot achieve escape velocity. However, I also refuse to be dragged back down into the muck below.
Attacking back is fine but attacking without provocation is not good. If Reverend were a dog, he’d probably be put down for being rabid. All I did was point out a logical inconsistency yet he directs all his “I am not a sock” fury toward me. I try to reason with him and he resorts to “I know you are but what am I”. When I try to figure out what his problem is, he continues with the “I am not a sock” fury. Bringing his website into it probably didn’t help his standing with the Mods any. For those who weren’t paying attention, Reverend was the first to drag in an outside website. Maybe it would have been better if UB did not respond in kind, I don’t know. I now know that I’ve dealt with Reverend’s type before, one of my brothers shares much of the same attitude. Especially in the “insult those who try to make amends” department. I had to put up with my brother’s shit for 13 years, that’s the basis of my problem with Reverend here and I will not respond to any further attacks from him.
I’m about to go home for the weekend. Before I do: Reverend, you make some good points. And indeed I did caution WL in my first post that “jump on the newbie”, whilst sometimes tempting, is not a good long-term strategy, either for oneself or, indeed, the board.
I think that overall you’ve been extraordinarily harshly treated. I hope, though, that you’ve seen somewhat of a balance as this thread has gone on.
WL - you did rather get worked up over what Reverend had said. Are you sure that you didn’t have just a small axe to grind and were looking for a stone to grind it on?
Anyway, playing peacemaker is not my general modus operandi and it doesn’t sit easy with me here. I’m off to real life for a couple of days. Take it easy kids.
pan
You don’t happen to be related to the Misanthropic bitch, do you?
Not that I don’t enjoy that type of humor- this thread has been great, but I definately see that Dennis Miller, MrCranky, negative, ranting style to your rants.
LOL, it is great, axe to grind or not. All great comedians have to make the best of the moment and use whatever they can. Improv at it’s finest.
Jeff Olsen
Is that a criticism of White Lightning? Somehow I doubt that and presume you are claiming I attacked without provocation. I don’t know, seems the creation of this thread and the snotty little grade school remarks and outright distortions from WL and others constitute sufficient provocation.
And hey, kids: Don’t pit me if you are not willing to slug it out. I missed the rule where it says “In case of pitting, curl up and die”.
Nah, the relationship to dogs on this board seems to be pretty much in line with the Cookeville PD.
Jeff, maybe your initial response to leave this thread was the proper one. It seems you’re returning because you still have a couple bushels of bullshit you want to throw around.
First off, Jeff, you didn’t point out a “logical inconsistency”. A poster made the inane charge that since I knew vB code I must be a sock puppet or a resurrection, because, after all, how would someone with a dozen posts know vB code (Answer: From other boards). I then mentioned that I have posted under this name for years and even registered my domain mykeru.com several years ago, which speaks against my being some temporarty sock puppet.
You then pipe in like Sherlock Holmes as performed on the short bus, that if I am not a sock puppet/resurrection then why don’t I have an email address in my profile on this forum?
The logic escaped me, as it did many other people, but you seemed to think this was a brilliant point. I then mentioned the site and the email address there. You then doubted I owned the site. I then suggested that you send e-mail to me via the email address on the site (If it isn’t my site, then how would I access the email there?) which you then begged off, because it was more fun for you to throw around a little bullshit than follow it up.
I quote:
C’mon Jeff, what’s the point of being devious when anyone can check the first page of this thread and see you are just full of crap.
Because, apparently, when someone makes a silly accusation, one is just supposed to roll over?
Right, after I was accused of sock puppetry I did mention that I registered the domain of the same name years ago.
Your point? Oh, I forgot: You really don’t have one.
I’m sorry, who is trying to make amends? Certainly not you or the principles that started this shit.
I see. The problem is not with me, but with your brother, and I’m just a surrogate. Makes emminently good sense to me.
Jeff, I think you were better off quitting while you were behind.
** Tee**
Did you bring up the Robertson Faith Healer connection in the original thread? If so I missed that and apologize for not giving you proper credit for knowing more about Robertson than most. Yours one of the burdens of being a single voice in the maelstrom.