Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2)

It’s a start but in modern parlance corvettes are pretty dinky, smaller than a frigate. Of course, being equipped with Harpoon ASMs they’ll be capable of punching way above their weight.

A modern corvette could sink a WW-II aircraft carrier or cruiser before it even knew it was under attack.

Now against modern larger warships a corvette is still a small warship. But lethality is waaay up from the old days.

Not to mention that the Black Sea is not remotely likely to have any of the those heavyweights. No American carrier would go near it, probably not even the larger cruisers. We might send an Arleigh Burke, but that’s about as big as we would put in that glorified Great Lake. It’s a (modern) small ship theater.

The Black Sea is not quite twice the size of all the Great Lakes combined :wink:. 168,496 vs 94,250 sq miles.

But granted it is unusually confined. Anyway by treaty Turkey places strict limits - only warships of total tonnage of >15,000 tons can pass through the straits with no more than nine at a time (with total tonnage capped), no submarines not owned by littoral Black Sea states and no aircraft carriers period.

Of course in an actual shooting war where Turkey was participating, all bets are off.

I bow to the superior intellect. :slight_smile:

So, at 9.5k tons, we could theoretically put 4 AB-class Destroyers in theater (“The maximum aggregate tonnage which non-littoral States may have in the Black Sea is 45.000 tons.” “Vessels of war belonging to non-littoral States cannot stay more than 21 days in the Black Sea.”)

And your comment about Turkey being actively involved is quite astute. There is, after all, no mechanism for enforcing the Montreux Convention other than Turkey choosing to honor it.

I also feel fairly confident that 4 Burke Destroyers would make short work of eliminating any Russian naval presence in the Black Sea. Not that this is in any way actually going to happen.

I assume you got your inequality signs mixed up, and that was supposed to be less than, not greater than?

But if we had reason to destroy the Russian Black Sea fleet, I see no reason to suppose we’d do it using our own naval power. Aircraft or cruise missiles launched from allied countries would be more than sufficient. If we sent naval forces, it’d be to project force beyond the coasts of the Black Sea.

It seems that the US has finally given some ATACMS (300km range missiles for HIMARS/M270) to Ukraine. Ukraine has announced this by destroying 9 helicopters at the Berdyansk airfield.

MFD DATE: 10\96?

Except for a couple pinball machines, I don’t think I own any mechanical items that old that still work.

That war theater really is where old weapons go to die.

Have you looked at the US Air Force’s warplane inventory?

The typical B-52H Stratofortress in active nuclear service was ordered in 1960 or 1961.

Is that pronounced Attack 'ems? (I had’t heard of them before your post.)

Yes. Not by accident. The industrial side of the military-industrial complex is very good with hand-crafting acronyms.

These are reportedly the older Block I missiles with about a 165 km range. Still an upgrade on what they had.

An article gives more information about “Operation Dragonfly,” where those missiles were used to hit Berdyansk.

I’ve got two tractors built in the 1950’s that work fine. And lots of smaller mechanical stuff.

Question’s mostly a matter of maintenance.

Moderating

Enough of the old Equipment off-topic bit.
Clearly there are loads of older tools and vehicles still working fine. Please let us all move on.

I love a good secondary in the morning! :slight_smile:

That size plume is not consistent with Russia’s statement that an incoming rocket / missile landed harmlessly in an empty field.

Russia suffers another setback in their plans.

I’m very impressed the Ukrainians defended against a sustained assualt from 4 directions. They must be well dug in and fortified.

Guardian live feed

Utterly bonkers numbers in today’s update from the Ukrainian MoD. Record numbers of personnel, tanks, and armored vehicles. Rumours going around that the failed attacks at Avdiivka are worse than anyone realizes.

Avdiivka as a focal point for a Russian offensive makes zero sense, by the way. It’s probably the most fortified Ukrainian position on the entire front. It’s just outside of Donetsk city, and the Russians have been trying to take it since 2014. It does sit in a big salient, which I guess is why it’s been targeted, but it’s a big fortified position on a big hill. And taking it wouldn’t even really open the way for further gains. The lines here haven’t been largely static for the last 9 years for no reason.

Russian helicopter population in decline due to overhunting:

Heart-warming scenes of Russian armored vehicles going boom: