A study (pdf) from the Medical Research Council found that more than 1 in 4 South African men have admitted to raping a girl or woman. More than 56,000 rapes were reported (pdf) to police, but the government group suspects that the actual incidence of rape is 25 times that number. That’s 1,400,000 people – roughly the population of Phoenix – each year. By comparison, the U.S. Census Bureau said in 2012 that there were some 81,000 rapes or attempted rapes (pdf) in the U.S. in 2009, the last year for which the bureau gives figures – in a country with more than six times the population of South Africa…
“There’s the notion that sex is a masculine entitlement,” Vetten says…
Regardless of whether these blacks attended lower quality schools (apparently this means schools with a lot of black students) or higher quality schools, a sizeable gap apparently developed.
As far as I can tell, the authors basically admit that the various factors they look at do not account for the gap that develops.
Agreed. And one can ask – what is responsible for the gap that develops?
I mean, if you take two groups of kindergarten age children, one black and one white; with similar socioeconomic backgrounds and similar test scores; an “anti-racist” would presumably predict that the similarity in test scores would persist.
Or that if a gap developed, it would be because of racism and therefore more pronounced among blacks who went to white majority schools.
Here let me help you with just one tidbit:
From the same summary you (SELECTIVELY) quoted from:
"… (the researcher [Ogbu]) rightly observes that his study of “community forces” in generating the gap in student performance does not, logically or empirically, negate the possibility of “societal forces” also affecting Black student performance.
Ndd’s later post about this citation:
"Because of the constraints of political correctness most who draw attention to black inadequacies feel the need to put a positive spin on the rather discouraging facts. The problem with the above analysis is that the Washington, DC public school system is one of the best financed public school systems, it has the highest percentage of blacks, and it scores below all of the states.
The last sentence is practically a contradiction. What receives empirical support is that nothing brings blacks up to white standards. Effort after effort fails again and again."
He’s been reduced to refuting the source he brought to the party in the first place. How can you not see that as a Major Fail?
Oh, right…--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read a number of articles about the race gap that are almost comical in their efforts to avoid the truth. They examine every explanation but a genetic one, conclude that the other explanations are not sufficient, and end the article by saying, “We don’t know why the gap exists.”
And now he’s trying to ignore it, and has moved on to rape statistics.
He is verily the Black Knight of debate, and you his ignoble squire…
You are carrying water for an imbecile, and youcan’t tell the difference…
It says exactly that. I’ve even quoted and bolded it for the hard of thinking. Twice now you’ve claimed that it doesn’t say exactly what it says.
Now, what you’re trying to do is say that it doesn’t say what it says because it goes on to say more. To witless:
This is simply stupid and desperate grasping to try to salvage face. You’d be better off just to try to ignore it and move on like NDD is.
The environmental measures were obtained only at baseline, meaning that they could not account for time varying influences of poor environment on academic achievement. But does it make sense that the impact of poor environment would occur only at 1st grade, and would then go away? Or does it make more sense that the relative disadvantage of poor environment would continue to accrue over time. If I’m in a bad first grade and you’re in a good one, and then I go on to a bad second grade and you go on to a good one, is the impact of the difference between us going to be constant or will my performance be increasingly impacted as I continue to experience deficits?
In fact the authors clearly state in their conclusion that the best explanation of the degraded performance over time is the persisting exposure to poor schooling (and of course to the exposure to poor environmental conditions outside of school as well).
If you want to incorporate this as evidence in support of your racist position, you now have to pose a genetic impact on academic functioning that exerts itself only after first grade. Sure, we can imagine how some lurking genetic factor would wait to exert influence at the phenotypic level after some point in development, but it’s not exactly a parsimonious explanation, is it?
No, you’re better moving away from the turd in the punch bowl that NDD dropped there, instead of pouring a cup and grimacing while you take a sip just to convince us that everything is a-okay!
When reading the efforts of those who desperately want to believe in genetic racial equality I am reminded of the time when two Mormon missionaries proselytized me. After a thorough investigation of their claims I accumulated an abundance of evidence that Joseph Smith was a clever charlatan, and that The Book of Mormon is not an accurate history of pre Columbian America from 500 BC to 300 AD.
Unlike the enforcers of political correctness on The Straight Dope, the Mormon missionaries were civil when presented with my evidence. Nevertheless, they would get some insi binsi little fact that seemed to substantiate the truth of Mormonism, and wave it around as though it disproved my mountain of evidence.
Here I am told that the the fact that No Child Left Behind left most black children behind does not matter, because NCLB was a bad program. Nevertheless, next time we will erase the race gap. Honest to goodness we will.
I do not think there is going to be a next time. I think white tax payers have had it with expensive government spending programs that try and fail to bring blacks up to our standards. What I anticipate for the future is a phase out of forced school busing, affirmative action, and AFDC, and an ever harsher criminal justice system. Further advances in genetics will be used to justify these trends.
I don’t think so, but perhaps I misunderstood you.
When you state that according to the article, “controlling for environmental influences explained the observed differences in academic achievement between African Americans and whites,” are you referring to all observed differences in academic achievement, or just some differences?
But assuming they are controlled for, such influences can be expected to have basically the same effects on both blacks and whites, agreed?
I would say it probably continues to accrue over time – for both blacks and whites.
Do you agree that according to the authors, even when schooling is controlled for, there is still a gap which develops?
As far as I know, the effect of genes on intelligence is relatively low compared to environment in the first few years of life and grows from there. So I don’t have a hard time believing that the intelligence gap is pretty minimal among 5 year old children if socioeconomic factors are controlled for. Especially since socioeconomic factors themselves have a partly genetic cause.
Do you agree that the authors found a gap even when school quality was accounted for? If so, do you have any explanation for such a gap?
Thank God we have these clear thinkers, who, when research doesn’t support their prejudices, can bemoan the errors of thought and lack of integrity in the scientists, because “it’s just common sense” to NDD and Brazil. When confronted about basic logical inconsistencies in their theories, they can ‘imagine’ why their beliefs are still sound.
NDD can even help those who mis-estimate Jefferson’s likely IQ, even without being a psychologist or nothin!
I think a better word would be “postjudices,” since my beliefs are based on the evidence – as opposed to an emotional need for social acceptance or to demonstrate moral superiority.
But let me ask you this: Do you agree that in the linked article, the authors observe a gap between blacks and whites which is not explained by the factors they cite? If you agree, do you think their observation is an anomaly? And if not, what do you think the reason is for that gap?
i.e. there is still a gap, even when all of their factors are controlled for and even if the school is controlled for.
Agreed?
Also, please answer my question from before:
When you state that according to the article, “controlling for environmental influences explained the observed differences in academic achievement between African Americans and whites,” are you referring to all observed differences in academic achievement, or just some differences?
are more valid that the researchers? Well, OK, maybe. What were your credentials again, as opposed to theirs? You know better than the posters here with expertise and training in genetics, know better than those with expertise and training in psych testing…
Let’s hear it…why should be believe your judgements are superior, especially when you are contradicting and dismissing your own sources?
Well, I see that the clam debater is attempting to remove another circle, as usual if the evidence is so great they should publish in a scientific journal and let them influence the people that matters.
And it is clear that there is no chance of that, just like Jeremy they are happy to go around in aver more smaller circles.
When you state that according to the article, “controlling for environmental influences explained the observed differences in academic achievement between African Americans and whites,” are you referring to all observed differences in academic achievement, or just some differences?
So your side should be the one to answer the question, since NDD obviously knew the research well enough to cite it in the first place.