So my girlfriend had two of her friends over last night, let’s call them Ann and Becca. Turns out Ann and Becca have both recently begun dating men in their early 30s (we are all in our early 20s). My girlfriend says that dating a guy that much older than her would creep her out. Ann and Becca both say that they are done dating guys around their own age, and will probably stick to rather older men in the future. Now Ann views herself as quite the hippyish, non-conformist, feminist, and she’s very vocal about these views. My girlfriend (who is quite the smartass) says that Ann’s dating policy isn’t very non-conformist or feminist. Girlfriend thinks that most girls date older men because traditional society placed primary importance on a man’s economic value (which tends to increase a great deal as he ages), while placing value on a woman’s physical appearance and fertility (which tend to decrease with age). Ann disagrees. She insists she likes older because “they are more at the same place in their lives as me.” Ann then goes onto speculate that she is more mature than most 22 year old women and nearly all 22 year old men. Becca vehemently agrees with Ann, and claims that everything Ann says also applies to her.
Now I could give a fuck if they want to date older guys or not. What made me want to explode was the incredible amount of self delusion behind these statements. Ann is one year out of college. She spends most of her time in Peru, where she is not legally allowed to work. In Peru, she works (once again, illegally) part time for a nonprofit, making a fraction of what she could be earning in the U.S.A. Her boyfriend is a 30 something engineer who refuses to introduce her to his parents and sisters whom he lives with, because they would just interfere (apparently living with your parents is not considered a sign of immaturity in Peru). Now as long as she is happy that’s all that matters in the big picture, but come on, could anybody honestly say this would appear to be a mature person in a mature relationship, or that this dude is “in the same place in his life as she is?” Becca has even less ground to stand on. She’s two years out of college, lives with her parents, works part time at a clothing store, and subsists on a diet almost exclusively of delivery pizza. Yeah she’s totally in the same place in her life as the 30 year old accountant she’s dating.
Of course I didn’t say this because Ann and Becca are both nice people who are fun to hang out with, and what would I gain by insulting them. But goddamn if I didn’t want to. Oh well that’s what anonymous rants on the internet are for. Anyone else have a frustrating tale of self delusion they want to vent about?
Oh and if this is too tame for the pit feel free to move it to MPSIMS.
They sound like 22 year olds to me (on the immature side, I’ll give you that). Hopefully they’ll get a little better as they get older, but not everyone does.
IMHO young women who like much older men are many times looking for a father figure to met some unmet childhood need. This allows them to place themselves in the place of a child when convenient to meet that need.
I guess I’m not clear on why anyone feels it necessary to defend who they are dating. “I like him/her.” Really, that’s all there is to it.
I’m equally unclear on why a person’s “friends” feel it necessary to subject their friend to a sort of Spanish Inquisition as to why they are dating anyone who is “inappropriate”, due to age, or race, or anything.
But they weren’t saying “I like him.” They were saying “I like type X, because only type X guys have these particular characteristics” which is entirely different.
Why that’s true enough, I have the impression from the OP that the women were being forced to come up with a philosophical reason for dating who they were that was not conformist and was not anti-feminist. For which the ideal answer would have been, “I like him,” but - hey! - they’re not mature enough for that yet.
I could, I readily admit, be completely off-base, that’s just my sense of the reported conversation.
They were also saying they like older men because of the positive characteristics of Becca and Ann, which the OP thinks they are full of crap about (and I agree with him).
They probably are just sick of 22 year old lazy douchebags who act like giant boys. Granted, men in their 30’s act like that too, but have had better practice at turning it off and wearing the Big Boy Pants when necessary.
This was the exact sentiment they expressed. What angered me was their inability to recognize that they exhibit many of the same traits they label as immature in guys their own age.
I think I’m having a prophetic vision. I see these girls as 40 year old divorcees. They’re complaining that their exes were boring and unspontaneous. They want men with more passionate less tightly wound men. They’re only dating younger men from now on…
Everybody bitches, and I imagine lots of complaints are rather age specific. It’s not that they were complaining it was that they were exact female version of what they were complaining about. It was very much a pot calling the kettle black moment, that I found about equal parts annoying and amusing.
Crap, maybe by the time I’m thirty I’ll be mature enough to write a post that’s not full of typos. Or at least be mature enough to get to the edit function in time.
My daughter at 22 married a man who was 32. My daughter at 24 is divorcing the 34-y/o who tends to act more like a 17-y/o. He literally went home to mommy. She’s relishing being single. So the maturity argument doesn’t always fly…
Most Americans think they have a chance at eternal paradise through magic, and you think this girl is delusional because she overestimates her maturity? You miscalculate dosages this morning, or what?
I’m not familiar with cultural norms in Peru, but in certain countries, particularly in Latin America, it’s not weird to be 30 and living with your family… especially if you’re not married. And considering that he’s working as an engineer, the most likely scenario is that this guy is actually supporting his family rather than the other way around. I don’t think it’s fair to apply U.S. cultural standards to another country when assessing whether or not someone is mature.
I do know that I was way more mature than the average kid in her early 20s, having supported myself financially since the age of 17 and having to overcome a shitload of obstacles in my early adulthood. But I’m not totally convinced that being self-sufficient is the golden key to maturity. I think it all depends on your attitude, how you approach challenges and whether you can make decisions in your long-term best interest. People may have looked at me externally and said, ‘‘Oh yes, yes, very mature for her age,’’ but internally, privately, personally, I had a lot of growing up to do. I think people think of maturity as a single characteristic or entity, but in my experience it covers a wide range of characteristics and situations, and it’s completely possible to be mature in one area but not another.
So I don’t think you can fairly assess someone’s overall maturity based solely on their financial situation, especially not in the context of a culture that values interdependence.
