Fuck off-I am not in the mood for your trolling, because I have lost too many close friends and relatives to this disease.
I am very sorry for those losses. I seem to have badly misunderstood the nature of your question.
You seem to have badly misunderstood the fact that that soft-selling what is happening in the real world might have been a somewhat reasonable approach a year and a half ago, but it certainly isn’t now.
That’s actually tempting. It really is.
But here’s where we’re at. We in the US live in this world where we’ve been taught for generations, or at least since the post-war era, that we’re a classless society, that we’re all as smart as everyone else, that just because we don’t have a graduate degree, or even a college degree (and let me be the first to admit that I can be a little sensitive on that topic myself), doesn’t mean we’re not perfectly qualified to make our own decisions about our own health care, and that these are our bodies, and it’s our choice what goes into them.
Mix all that up with the abandonment of labor (and labor, while not exactly the same as the white working class, at least overlaps considerably, at least skilled and well-paid labor) by the Democratic Party, and the not just abandonment but active dismissal by the intellectual left, starting way back with the New Left.
Add to that the proliferation of “alternative media,” and the rise of Fox News, an organization run by some very smart people who knew perfectly well how to capitalize on all this, and knew that with the rise of cable news, not to mention Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and all that, nobody could consume all the news out there, so if they could suck people in, they’d keep them there, and those viewers’ worldview would consist entirely of their Facebook feeds and Fox. And maybe some YouTube bullshit.
And then you’ve got the Republican Party very cynically capitalizing on all this, going all the way back to the Southern Strategy, and then Newt Gingrich and the Tea Party movement.
So here we are.
And I’m not so quick to call all of the anti-vaxxers “stupid” (and especially not “retards”). They almost literally don’t live in the same world I live in. They don’t know what I know. They don’t read the same news (if they read any news).
They’re a natural target for the scammers and the hucksters and the cynical politicians, but they’re not necessarily “stupid.” They’re sort of blind, though, and it’s not 100% their fault.
And if we dismiss them, we’re in trouble. Because there are a lot of them. And let’s put aside predictions of demographic obsolescence, 'cause maybe that will happen, and maybe it won’t, but we don’t have time.
So don’t write off your Trumpist brother, or spouse, or friend, or whatever. Stick around. Stay in touch. Stay friendly.
It can’t hurt. We’re too smart to be converted, right? So we’re safe. But we might do some good.
As St. Francis said, “preach the Gospel every day. Use words only when necessary.”
Yes, I know, he probably didn’t say that. It’s not like he had a stenographer following him around all the time. But it’s a good point anyway.
We need to distinguish people who lack critical thinking skills and believe what they’ve been spoon-fed, from antivaxers who gleefully promulgate dangerous nonsense for fun and profit. A small but not insignificant percentage of the former can be won over, if not by good evidence then by the prospect of attaining benefits limited to the vaccinated.
The latter, who include a tiny but dangerously loud minority of physicians and nurses, richly deserve harsh condemnation and professional sanctions.
Of course. And I tried to make that point, but I’m not the world’s greatest writer, for sure.
There are those who are trapped in their silos, and there are the cynics and the hucksters who are out for money or power or both (of course).
One group needs to be rescued. The other, well, I don’t know. If Jimmy_Chitwood’s revolution ever happens, and they’re all put up against a wall somewhere, well, too bad, so sad, not the best way to go, but time marches on.
We live in a cultural moment where there’s a perception that if you decide that a matter is political, and flop around on the floor screaming about “muh rights”, then you’re going to get whatever you want.
What I’m saying is, nobody has a reason to think they’re going to lose their job for any reason except for maybe protesting police brutality. There’s no disincentive to dissuade people from acting like defiant toddlers. In fact many seem to relish it, and nobody seems to want to be the adult in the room.
For Chrissakes, last week I was in a doctor’s office where the medical assistant checking my vitals told me matter-of-factly that she wasn’t getting the vaccine because it’s just saline and they’re selling it to make money. A MEDICAL WORKER IN A DOCTOR’S OFFICE. I fumed to my actual doctor about it, and she said “yeah, we’ve had to talk to her before, thanks for mentioning it.”
If a medical practice isn’t firing staff for spreading anti-vax bullshit, I don’t see what’s going to get traction.
We need to pass a law that protects businesses who discriminate against vaccine refusers. Customers, employees, suppliers, all of them.
We need to pass laws that protect insurers who raise premiums or cancel coverage against vaccine refusers.
We can’t vaccinate people at gunpoint, that would be an absolute shitshow, but we need to make it crystal clear that we will absolutely stand by and watch you get financially wrecked by the consequences of refusing to get vaccinated. Then people can quietly do the right thing and save face by saying “oh well, can’t fight the big business conspiracy if I want to eat.”
I’m at the point as a patient of asking whether everyone I’ll interact with in the office is vaccinated. I’m not knowingly going into a room with someone unvaccinated when I’ve spent 18 months avoiding that situation.
100% true. I agree without reservation. Patients ought to refuse to go to medical practices that permit their employees to spread bullshit. Especially on-premises, to patients there for treatment (and maybe even the shot). If patients start enforcing this, it will happen.
Couldn’t agree more. Here in NYC, at least, some very large, very influential employers are starting to require that employees be vaccinated to return to work. And they’re requiring that employees return to work. No shot, you can’t come in. You can’t come in the building, guess you can’t work here anymore. You’re fired. Works for me.
Hmmm. Maybe? Seems like a dangerous precedent. What’s next – denying health care to smokers who get COPD? What about ex-smokers who get COPD? What about morbidly obese people who still eat at KFC every day?
I see your point, but it makes me nervous. I mean, insurance companies are already working overtime to find reasons not to pay anything, ever. Why help them?
That’s actually not a terrible strategy. Give people a face-saving way out, and a lot of the time they’ll take it.
Although vaccinating them at gunpoint is getting tempting.
Yesterday the nursing home in which my Mom resides suspended all visitations, because of the huge spike in covid cases in the county.
Mom’s 100. I don’t know how much time she has left, and I try to see her at least twice a week. Now I won’t be able to see her at all for at least the next few weeks.
Fuck all of you fuckheads who won’t get the vaccine. Maybe you can explain to Mom why I cannot visit her this weekend.
Same boat.
My father (88) is resident in a “memory care” facility. Aside from dementia, he’s not in good physical health, even for his age.
I’m afraid the facility may shut its doors to visitors sometime soon. Not good, that will all too likely mean I don’t get to see my father again.
So, yes, fuck the fuckheads who won’t get the vaccine. Including my dipshit brother.
But I’m still not cutting him off – that would absolutely mean I have no way to reach him on this.
Like I said before, blowdarts.
Here’s a modest proposal that does not involve vaccination at gunpoint or forcing anyone to vaccinate who does not want to:
Get all of the vaccine hesitant folks in a state together in one place, or perhaps a few per city/large town. Really pack them in. Make sure that there are a bunch of active Covid cases in with them. Keep them packed together in a concert-like venue for several hours. Encourage them to mingle, shake hands. Play music so that they have to get really close to each other and speak loudly. Make it a party type atmosphere. Fun for all!
Then, let them have their little flu, with no medical intervention at all. No admittance to hospitals for them. The rest of us can self-isolate for a couple of weeks, and then go around and collect the bodies and put them in a giant pit of lime. The anti-vaxxers all get infected, herd immunity is achieved, and hopefully we can start the process of going back to normal.
Partially true in that there has been some anti-vaxxer nuttery going on ranging from that pharmacist who left out of the fridge/freezer doses to this German nurse:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/11/europe/german-nurse-saline-solution-vaccine-scli-intl-grm/index.html
““Today I had the sad duty to inform around 8,600 people who may have been affected that it cannot be ruled out they may have received a saline solution instead of their vaccination at their vaccination appointment. For peace of mind we would recommend people get an additional vaccination,” Ambrosy said.”
and also:
" Six people received an accidental saline injection at the Niagara Region Public Health Clinic in Ontario, Canada, on July 16. As a precaution, a total 205 people who attended the clinic that day were later asked to book a repeat appointment (here).
A similar incident at Ikoma City Hospital in Japan happened in May. The facility said it measured patient antibodies a month later to double check – and those with low counts were given another shot (here).“”
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSL1N2P30Z4
The lie being that it’s to make money.
None of those affect other people other than maybe insurance premiums going up when those people actually use their insurance.
Under ACA, insurance companies can already charge smokers 50% higher premiums. I don’t know if people with other conditions are penalized similarly. To me this makes sense… if you’re engaging in risky habits that are likely to cause expensive claims, then you ought to pay higher premiums.
For some reason the public rejects any hint of behavioral modification if it’s done by government, yet they bow down like meek little kittens if it’s done by unaccountable private insurers. So fine, I’m happy to stop policing my fellow citizens. Let’s unleash the fucking hounds, let Aetna absolutely ruin anyone who refuses to vaccinated.
I’m willing to bet there will be zero takers on this. When people are about to watch bread taken off their table over this stupid fucking trifle, they’ll knuckle under and save themselves and their children. They’ll never admit they’re wrong, but they’ll do it, and that’s what matters.
Possible upside, people might finally start reconsidering whether they want all that power to be held by unaccountable faceless corporations, as opposed to public elected officials who can be voted out of office.
Understand that this environment is going to be absolutely packed to the gills with innocent children who are captive to their parents’ idiocy.
I love a good spiteful comeuppance fantasy as much as anyone, don’t get me wrong, but there’s no way I’m supporting this in real life.
There’s no path out of this crisis that doesn’t involve watching some absolute fucking morons endanger others and come through it with no consequences whatsoever, believing that they were 100% correct all along. It sucks, but that’s reality.
So, basically a Trump rally.
Breaking:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/12/politics/hhs-vaccination-requirement-employees/index.html
Covid-19 vaccinations will be required for the more than 25,000 health care staff and volunteers working at the Department of Health and Human Services, Secretary Xavier Becerra announced Thursday.
“Staff at the Indian Health Service (IHS) and National Institutes of Health (NIH) who serve in federally-operated health care and clinical research facilities and interact with, or have the potential to come into contact with, patients will be required to receive the Covid-19 vaccine,” Becerra said in a statement.
The secretary said the vaccination requirement will apply to “employees, contractors, trainees, and volunteers whose duties put them in contact or potential contact with patients at an HHS medical or clinical research facility.”
An HHS official said the requirement is expected to go into effect by the end of September.
So my old district in Wyoming recently decided not to mandate masks because freedom. Teachers are also not allowed to require students to mask in their classrooms. This article makes it pretty clear how stupid that policy is:
I thought of sending it to the supe, but it’d get ignored as left-wing propaganda. The county public health officer declined to continue remote learning at the beginning of the 2020-2021 school year because he got death threats when he ordered them closed the previous spring. Of course, there were cases. One staffer’s husband died of the COVID she brought home, and a few teachers were hospitalized, but that didn’t change public attitudes.
And that’s the dispiriting truth: deaths and hospitalizations don’t change many minds, and when they do, most of those minds are easily swayed back to the party line. A few years ago, I’d never have believed denial in the face of so many deaths was possible, but what we’re witnessing now is the incredible power of combined willful (in most but not all cases) ignorance, propaganda, tribalism, political manipulation, and egoism (as in “I refuse to be wrong!”).
So many comments here have been about wishing death on COVID-in order to prevent even more deaths. That’s logical and perhaps even ethical, and I’m so frustrated, I’ve thought the same, though only in the abstract, and only about adults. But not only do deaths not change minds, but the many, many mild cases reenforce the twisted narrative.
I wish I had an answer. I’m no longer convinced there is one.
No, I said the vaccine hesitant. That’s not the children who at the moment CANNOT take the vaccine. So they are spared. We may have to get some large orphanages up and running if there are no living relatives left to care for them.