I was going to say, give him a choice - weed or jail, assuming that he didn’t get fired for screwing up. But this makes me agree with everyone else. You just have to hope that the consequences of his actions catching up to him will turn him around. Parents can do so little, really.
If I were in your situation, I hope I would have the strength to say no to my kid and let him suffer the consequences of his own actions.
I know he’s your baby; I’m a mother too. But enough is enough.
So yeah. What everyone else has said. It’s time for him to be a big boy and take his licks.
What CrazyCatLady said. I can’t really put it any better.
Been my experience that there’s four kinds of men in this area:
*1. Guys who believed what their parents told them, and simply never screwed up (extremely rare)
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Guys who screwed up BAD once or twice, and learned their lesson.
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Guys who saw someone ELSE screw up BAD, and learned their lesson.
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Guys who never learned their lesson. (not as rare as we’d like)*
…and I’m a firm believer in the idea that some people simply never really learn that a fire is hot, until they burn themselves (or watch someone else burn the holy hell out of themselves, up close and personal, close enough to smell it).
As a parent, I know how I’d feel if I were in your shoes, though. I wish you condolences, and the very best luck that can be found…
I dunno – it’s a tough situation. If it were 60 days and a misdemeanor rap, then I’d say the “Scared Straight” approach would be a no-brainer. But two years and a felony record pretty much means that it’s going to be brutally difficult to get his act together afterwards, even if he matures. It’s not like employers are going to be flocking to employ a felon.
I don't suppose you or one of your neighbors has any difficult or nasty physical labor that needs doing over the weekend? Something challenging, like digging up an old septic tank or something? Something that you could make the condition of a one time payment of the fee?
I guess I agree with the advice to talk to the probation officer and find out the options. If there were a way to get him to spend a couple of weeks in lockup, that might be just the thing.
Everything else aside, this is a huge red flag to me. Your son seems to beleive that there isn’t a mess he can get himself into that you won’t get him out of. If you allow him to live his life believing this, you’re doing him a huge disservice. I don’t know if letting him go to jail is the answer, but I think he’d be better off going to jail than having his fine paid for him without consequence.
As a parent, my heart is breaking for you, because it could be me in a few years.
As a former fuck-up alcoholic/drug addict/thief/bank scammer, I can only go one way on this-
Stop helping him screw up, and stop bailing him out. Right now. You don’t need to turn him in, but you have GOT to stop enabling this behavior. He will never change unless he is forced to do so, and even then, it might not take.
Explain that this stuff is no longer acceptable behavior in your home, and that you will be giving him no money or support as long as he keeps it up. If he blows it, pack his stuff & change the locks.
Of course it isn’t easy. But it has to be done. I’m so sorry.
I’m going to go home and ground my 9 yr old son from growing up. Good grief, Dolores, I can’t imagine how hard this must be for you. I am one of those parents who can’t STAND to see my kid standing too close to the stove, so I doubt that, at least at this point in my life, I’d have the strength to let him burn himself and find out the hard way.
That being said, I’m no stranger to enabling dangerous life patterns and I promise you that he is currently at a very important cross road.
I would sit him down and have a serious talk with him.
Tell him that you love him and believe in him… and because of this, you are willing to give him a chance. Also tell him that he’s hurting himself and you in the process and that as much as you love him, you WILL do what is necessary to protect the both of you. Even if that means letting him take the fall for his actions.
Lay it out on paper. Tell him what you expect from him and what the consequences will be if so much as toes the line of the wrong path from this crossroad.
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He will be employed and will pay you back what you loan him with interest. He has two weeks to sort out where he will be working, and must report his daily activities to you (I applied here, here and here) until he is employed.
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No more pot (And explain that it’s not a matter of principle, but a matter of legality. He can’t afford to break laws right now, no matter how unfounded he feels they may be)
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GED - Dropping out of high school makes the rest of your life an uphill battle, but getting a GED and consistently applying yourself will do wonders. I am a drop-out with a GED and I pay my bills and have money leftover. It can be done. Don’t allow him the mindset of “I’m just a loser drop-out who will never get anywhere.” It’s easy to slip into and it gives him license to never accomplish anything.
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Counseling. I’m sure that his father’s death (and maybe even influence in life) have contributed to his behavior and as it is becoming more of a pattern than a few isolated events, I think that you should insist that he go to counseling if he is going to continue to live under your roof. Period. He may not be a threat to you directly, but young adults heading in his direction tend to attract a particular element that you don’t want showing up on your doorstep at 3am, drugged out and running from the cops, you know?
I wish you all of the strength in the world.
Dolores, I’m not going to try to tell you what to do, or what I would do. I don’t have a kid, this is not my life.
The only thing I have to offer is some peripheral experience with parole officers, and this is general, not specific, with a different population than your son would fit into, and not in your state (which I’m guessing from your story is Texas or somewhere thereabouts).
Anyway, what I *can *say is that they are not all necessarily out to bust everyone back to prison at the first opportunity. And they are often more willing to try to work things out when the family gets involved.
Now, as I write this I can hear many voices, including my part of my own, saying no no no! don’t get involved! But again, this is not my life.
How involved you want to get is up to you. How involves you stay is also up to you. But if you do decide to get involved, it would start with calling your son’s PO yourself, with your son not knowing about it, because it might not help and he may be just plain up the creek. If you really think that counseling could help at this point, talk with the PO about it. He or she may be able to impose it as a condition of supervision. I know this is not an ideal way to get someone to go to counseling, but it might work.
It may be that the PO has been giving your son many chances to come up with the money he needs to pay, and this really is his last chance before he goes to prison. Or it might not be, your son could be exaggerating. You could discuss that situation. If it really is the last chance and the PO won’t budge on the money but might agree to impose counseling if the money comes through, that’s something to think about. Your decision.
The drug stuff seems pretty intolerable to me. Not that smoking weed is intolerable, I find it hard to understand why weed is illegal. But it is illegal, and your son is on probation. Smoking week while on probation and being drug tested is intolerably stupid, despite the claims of this cleaner stuff. Not to mention expensive. You could rat him out to his PO about that, if the PO seemed interested in giving him a chance with counseling, etc. Or tell the PO that you have some concerns that there may be some drug use, or something. Again, your decision. One thing I do know is that being involved with drugs while under custodial supervision is one of the quickest ways I know to get back to jail or prison.
Finally, the job stuff. Is McDonalds not hiring? Dairy Queen? Janitorial services? Is he keeping a job search diary? Based on my experience (personal, family, professional) with people who are variously depressed, in trouble with the law, smoking weed, unemployed, and monetarily irresponsible I would guess that he’s not making much of an effort. I would also guess that there are a bunch of jobs he sees as ‘below’ him. It’s not your responsibility to monitor his job hunt, his PO or a counselor could do that. He doesn’t seem to be doing it for himself.
I think this is one of the most difficult positions a parent can be in. He’s old enough that he needs to start acting like an adult, but while he’s been acting like a kid he’s gotten himself into a bargeload of trouble. It’s natural that he wants you to save him, and no wonder you’re conflicted about it.
I also think that what I hear in your postings, and echoed by everyone else, is that things can’t stay the way they are. Good luck.
My experience was just like Master Wang-Ka’s. Dad said “If you go to jail, Do Not Call Me” …and we didn’t. He was a single parent with 6 kids and had neither the time or patience do deal with problems like that.
I’m sorry your find yourself in this position and wish you the best.
If I could toss in my two cents, does your son fully understand the difference between “deferred adjudication” and a felony record? If he does what he’s supposed to do during his probation, the matter essentially disappears. If he gets a felony conviction, he’s screwed for life. If he’s too stupid to recognize a gift when a judge puts it in his hands, maybe he’s too stupid to help.
On the other hand, seeing your son go to a Texas prison for two years basically because he didn’t pull over fast enough for a cop, if your understanding of the original situation is correct, seems like a pretty high price. That’s not like letting him stew in a jail cell for a long weekend. A lot of people are screw-ups, but they don’t land in prison. (And a lot of people don’t go to prison who belong there.) With a two-year sentence, he could learn to be a serious criminal. He could be raped. He could be murdered. Could you live with that?
Does he have a lawyer now? (I’m assuming that he had one for the initial charges.) If so, could the lawyer help him? Maybe get him some slack on the fines? Maybe get him into a residential drug program? If not, maybe you could make some kind of deal with your son: you’ll pay his fines AFTER he enters a drug program and makes some progress getting clean. If there’s no program available, he has to work. Most cities still have shady day-labor outfits. Maybe you could drop him off at a day labor place in the morning, pick him him up at night and make him turn all his pay over to you. Maybe after a couple weeks of hauling scrap at construction sites a job at McDonald’s would look pretty good.
It’s a terrible situation, and I’m glad it’s not mine. But your kid sounds stupid, selfish and immature. But not bad, not mean, not dangerous (except maybe to himself). I think it’s too early to write him off forever. I would try to find a way to keep him out of prison.
Where I work, there are lots of single mothers, and you are living their worst nightmare. As everyone has said, there are no easy answers for you, but I think your gut is already talking.
You need to have the “final” talk.
Offer to get him into a rehab (there has to be one near you) and that might get a judge to give him an “out” this time.
But let him know you (and he) are getting too old for this crap, and although fun-is-fun, this has got to stop.
There is also the age-old psychological conflict of opinion between environment and nurture. Maybe it is his “friends”, maybe it is the nurture “mom is there for me”. One, or both, have to change.
Do you have a family member in another city or state who could/would take him for a few months or longer?
I feel really bad for your situation, but you really have to draw the line, and now.
It is not going to get better, and denial doesn’t seem to be working very well.
Wow, Delores, this sucks.
But I have to agree with the folks who are saying that it’s time to let him lie in the bed he’s made for himself. As Loach said, he should’ve been out on his ass for refusing to give up weed while on probation.
Prison is hard and harsh, but if he hasn’t violated the terms of his probation before, he should be able to make some kind of arrangement to avoid an automatic-straight-to-jail violation for non-payment of his fine this time, based on the loss of his job, since it was just two weeks ago. But whatever happens, he is going to have to suck it up and face the music for the crap he’s pulled in his young life.
Love him, care about him, worry over him, cry, but giving him cash – when he can buy his weed and buy his cleaner (and probably hang out with his friends, if they were willing to give him rides and didn’t consider him a mooch he must still be quite social with them) but can’t meet his real, consequence-holding, legal obligations – is over the line. He doesn’t deserve your money, he lost that privilege when he willfully, intentionally used his money to further break the law.
I have learned SO MUCH lately not to help reward people for their bad behavior.
RULES WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES ARE JUST SUGGESTIONS.
Chant this to yourself and see if you’re interested in helping people avoid the repurcussions of their actions.
I had a long talk with him last night. He says he understands why I won’t give him the money, but he’s acting all put out, of course. He knows he needs a job, but it isn’t a requirement of his probation. He says he has been looking every day, but he’s trying to stick to server jobs since he has experience and it pays more.
He needs a job that he can work nights so that he can spend mornings going to community service.
What he has told me since I wrote, is that his PO said she was going to put his case up in front of the judge for reevaluation. That is not sending him directly to prison, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Which makes me feel less guilty for saying no.
He says he has quit smoking weed since this last Tuesday (which was his birthday.) He says he knows he never should have started up again. (He quit for 3 months a while back.) Oh, FYI, “cleaner” is this drink with certain herbs and vitamins that you take with tons of water, to water down the results of the piss test. They charge $20 to $30 for this stuff!!! They sell it at head shops.
Thanks for all the advice and the moral support. I don’t think I could actually throw him out. But I refuse to enable his behavior, and I’ve told him the exact reasons why.
I even made him read this thread to maybe get a different perspective on this, and see things through my eyes. I don’t think it helped, to tell the truth. Major roll-eyes from him.
But…maybe things will all work out. He always says the right things, like how he’s going to take care of business, such as the bank stuff and the tickets.
We’ll see.
He has been to drug rehab because he failed a drug test. Little good it did.
Interesting. It used to be a commonplace for British soldiers to be there because they were invited to enlist by a judge.
Actually, the French Foreign Legion isn’t a bad idea: it’s little-known, but you get the opportunity to leave after 6 months.
Your son and mine could be twins. My boy is currently starting the last week of his 30-day sentence in a local jail for violating parole (the weed thing) and two weeks after he gets out, he goes back to court to see if he goes back to jail on possesion of paraphernalia and drug abuse (the weed thing again). While he’s in jail, he seems very remorseful, and had promised to not smoke weed again. But we won’t know until he gets out.
It has been hard to see him behind a glass window, losing weight (he was already skinny) and depressed. The plus side? He’s reading like crazy, something he rarely does.
He is at least in a new, clean, safe jail with only a few other prisoners. I had major surgery (with complications) while he has been in jail, and it killed him to not be with me, not get news of my condition, not talk to me, not know what was going on. My daughter tried to reassure him, but he was still scared to death for me. I think that has made a huge impression on him…knowing that I could have died and he wouldn’t have been at my side, or able to say goodbye.
But two years on a felony rap is so much different. Does he have a lawyer? Is he doing his community service?
I’m hoping this time away from pot has given his head time to clear, and he will truly try to make a new start. At least he knows now that we love him, and his uncle has really made it his mission in life to let him know that.
I wish you all the best: I’m a single mom too…please feel free to email me if you feel the need.
Honestly? After your last post it doesn’t seem that anything is really going to change for him. He hasn’t even committed to getting a job, let alone getting an ultimatum from you to get a job or get out. He hasn’t committed to getting his GED. The only thing he’s saying is that he’ll stop smoking pot, and you have your doubts about his ability to do that. He read this thread and “rolled his eyes”. He hasn’t done anything toward taking responsibility for his life and growing up. He’s 20 years old. I know he’s your child, but he’s not a child.
I’m not a parent, but I had a hand in raising a niece and nephew. At some point you have to cut the cord and push them out of the nest if they won’t go on their own.
As an aside - I have a sister my parents have been supporting her whole life. She doesn’t use drugs, but ended up a single parent when her husband left because she was pregnant with their second child. My parents had her move back home, and she just never left. Eventually, they bought her a house of her own, which she trashed because she’s lazy and slovenly. It got so bad the Codes Dept. was called. She’s been sporadically employed, and is currently very under-employed. She’s smart, she’s generous, but she’s a sponge. She’s also now 46 years old. Recently my mother received a call from someone wanting to buy the house. It turns out my sister couldn’t pay the deposits to have the utilities turned back on, so she’s been living with her son in a cheap hotel for months. My mother has been paying the mortgage on this house and squatters had moved in. The news caused my mother’s blood pressure to rise so high she had a stroke. four weeks later and she’s still in the hospital, and still worried about my sister. And my sister still hasn’t come up with a solution to the mess she’s gotten herself into. It would’ve been much better for my sister, her children and my parents if they’d given her limits and said they’d help her for 1 year until she got back on her feet. As it stands, I don’t know that my sister will ever be a functioning adult.
StG
It’s a side issue, but the consensus is that drug “cleansers” don’t work as promised, and if they have any effect at all it’s mostly from drinking them with huge amounts of water. If your kid has been relying on them, he’s just been lucky. If he stops buying them maybe he’d have the money to pay his fines.
http://studenthealth.oregonstate.edu/AnswerSPOT/AlcoholDrugs/Foiling.htm
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/33/independence-henein.php
http://www.bocaratonnews.com/index.php?src=news&category=LOCAL%20NEWS&prid=8327
StGermain wrote
I completely agree.
Dolores Reborn wrote
I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you’re enabling his behavior. period. You’re funding him through housing him, and I suspect you’re funding him in other ways as well, including food and likely even cash here and there. You’re not insisting that he change things, and you’re not creating consequences to his actions. You are enabling him in the most fundamental way, and as long as you continue to do so, he will continue to take advantage of it.
Frankly, it’s unfortunate that the PO wants to go back to court and renegotiate the consequences that were put in place for his actions. I don’t want him in jail any more than you do, but you don’t create consequences for him, so the only responsible authority in his life is the law, and now they’re backing down.
If you love this child, you will say to him, “You have 30 days. You will get a job, you will have a plan for getting a GED, you will have a plan for paying back your bank debts, and you will not smoke pot. If these don’t happen, and continue to happen, you will not be living in my house.” And then follow through.
Sorry to be so harsh. I really do wish the best for you, and more importantly, I wish the best for your son’s future. You know the right thing to do. It’s hard, but you must be hard for your son’s benefit.
I’m in my mid-30’s, am not a parent, but in some respects I can identify with your son. I agree with the general consensus here, in that whether you think you are or not you’ve become an enabler. My Mom was the same way. Housing, gentle then tough nudges to get a job, questions about my drinking but nothing too severe and no laws laid down.
The thing is, your son may be clinically depressed. He may say all the right things - I know I did - and deep down inside he may hate what he’s doing to himself and to you, since I’m sure he does love you. But sitting on top of that guilt/shame/desire to do better/etc may just be a heavy layer of depression. An overriding sense of “I don’t care”, or “why is this happening to me”, or “nothing really matters, my life is fucked”. And an inability to see through this cloud to the brighter side, and an inability to clear his confusion about things.
The drugs are a much much bigger problem than you may think. Not that I have anything against pot, and not that he’s an addict, but your son will not be able to deal with reality, with himself and his situation, and most importantly address his possible depression and confusion about life, unless he’s clean. For a few months, straight.
I highly recommend a visit to a psychiatrist, and, although in general I deplore the easy way drugs are prescribed these days, that some form of medicine be considered. I hated the idea of taking drugs for my depression, and I didn’t for almost 20 years. It’s only in the past two years that I have, and they have helped tremendously (not to mention my sobriety). Looking back, I wish I had taken them earlier in life.
But going to a shrink and taking medicines is only a small part of a possible solution, though potentially a fundamental one. What most everyone else here has said IMHO is right - you must set firm and specific guidelines and deadlines. From experience, it’s very easy to fool and manipulate parents - or, rather, I think some parents allow themselves to be fooled and manipulated because of love.
I could be totally off here, and projecting my youth onto a situation that has nothing in common. That’s for you to decide.
Good luck.