Should I let my son go to jail? (long)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

Dolores, I really, really feel for you. In a few years, I may be in your shoes. We have a 17-year-old daughter who has been diagnosed bipola/borderline personality disorder. She’s on meds which help, but won’t take them unless we stand over her. She refuses to look for a job, has been in minor trouble with the law (drug and alcohol use, attempted shoplifting). Thing is, she won’t do anything to try to make her situation better. Hubby and I have already agreed that if she’s 18 and still no sign of wanting to help herself, out she goes. You see, I have an acquaintance who is my age (early 40s), addicted to prescription narcotics, and has never held down a job. Every time she gets into trouble, her parents bail her out. Her father gave her a house to live in, on the condition that she would pay water, utilities and taxes (she gets child support and food stamps, plus takes her mother’s social security checks, so she’s not broke). But she never pays the bills. Why should she? Whenever her electricity or whatever is cut off, her father pays it, because he won’t see his grandchildren deprived of these things. I can see from where I am, that her parents enabling her all this time has done nothing for her. So, hubby and I have decided that, no matter how hard it may be, we’re not going to make this mistake with our daughter.

With his bank scams, unpaid tickets, continuing drug use in spite of being on probation, etc., your son seems to be indicating that he believes that you will protect him, no matter what. Letting him go to jail may seem like a tough way to show him that he’s wrong about that, but I’m convinced that it’s a lesson he must learn, if he’s ever to be a productive member of society.

Best of luck!

42

If nothing else, he needs a job just to buy his “cleaner”. :rolleyes:

Iwas going to ask the circumstances of losing his job. If he was let go because of a business slowdown rather than his fucking up, I would have said you shold consider paying his fees.

But no, the more you tell of the story, the more I agree with most others, do not bail the kid out. It’s not just a matter of enabling him, it’s also a matter of protecting yourself.

My disclaimer: IANAlawyer nor do I have any special knowledge of the legal system.

Picture this. Your son and his lowlife buds pool their money to buy a pound or so of pot, and your son has it in his room while they’re waiting to split it up. Cops show up at your door to serve him some papers or arrest him for something else, and whoo hoo for them, they find it. If they could make a case you knew about it, you might need a lawyer – you might lose your house or freedom or both. And your dumbshit son KNOWS ABOUT THIS THREAD, and if he ever mentions it in some particularly dumbshit moment, bingo the cops have a case. Maybe not enough of one to win if you have a good lawyer, maybe enough to win with a jury that’s prejudiced by knowing you tolerated your son’s drug use, and and figuring you should have known that he would have it in your home, but a case that a prosecutor might file on. Or hell, maybe you’ve talked these problems out to some RL friends, and the cops learn the same things through interviews. .

When your child is committing pattern crimes, and you are aware of them and do nothing, and continue to shelter and support them, I suggest that you are putting yourself and the rest of your family, if any (I read through most of this thread and the only other family reference I saw was to his father dying), at serious risk.

I suggest you ALREADY need a lawyer to provide you more fact-based scenarios about whether you may be at some jeopardy with respect to the legal system.

43

Dolores , I have been in your shoes, and some days I still am. My husband spotted this thread and suggested I reply. My 26-year-old son is an alcoholic/addict. I love him dearly, enough to back out of his way when he’s using. It’s difficult… I want to grab him by the shoulders and shake him, telling him he’s screwing up his life. But he heard from me before he ever started using that drugs were a dead-end street and why they are. Now he is living out that dead end. And I know that once he is under the influence, nothing I say will make any difference. He has had some clean periods and he is a delight to be around when he’s sober. When he’s clean, he’s funny, honest, considerate, pleasant, sociable. Right now he is drinking like a fish and probably back to using pot or possibly crystal again, and he is a totally irresponsible and angry asshole. He has reneged on a car loan, a credit card or two, his car insurance, paying money he owes us, lost three cell phones, is having his wages garnisheed for an apartment he abandoned, and was recently thrown out of a nice place where he was living… all because he was abusing alcohol and drugs.

In case this also matters to you, I am a licensed mental health / chemical dependency therapist. I have had to take my own advice, the same advice I’m going to give to you. Love him and let him know you will be there if and when he decides to REALLY get his act together. But also let him know that you will not support him in any way when he’s screwing up. He can go to his own probation officer and tell him he lost his job. He can ride the bus or use a bicycle to get to job interviews. If and when he starts smoking MJ again (and he probably will), I sure as hell would not let him use my vehicle. If he has an accident, they won’t let him go to his local head shop to get his “cleaner” before they take blood or urine from him. In such circumstances, in many states your motorcycle insurance becomes null and void once they determine he has drugs in his system. Then the “other guy” comes after you.

After my son turned 18, he had one hard-and-fast rule that he had to follow if he was to continue living in this house: no drugs or alcohol. I told him he had the right to make the decision to drink or use again (he had been completely clean since age 16), but if he did, he had to live somewhere else. I tossed him out when he was 22; I found paraphernalia in the house. I woke him up (he works nights) and told him he had until 5 PM to move himself and all his belongings out of the house. If he was still there when I got home from work, I would have the police escort him out. He left. It was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do in my life.

theR said: “Your son deserves to be punished, but he also deserves to be helped. I guess that’s ultimately what you need to decide.” Yep, your son deserves to be punished. But theR is wrong about what is in bold print; ultimately your son needs to decide if he wants to be in prison or not. That is not, nor has it ever been, your decision. And currently it doesn’t sound like your son wants any real help. Drug abusers won’t really take help until they are ready to see they need it and they want it. theR added: “Just to address why I feel this way a little more specifically, nobody should ever be sent to prison just for doing drugs.” As much as I respect that opinion, it is nothing more than an opinion. For anyone who believes this, work toward changing the laws to something you like better. In the meantime, drug possession, sales, soliciting, purchase, etc. is illegal. At age 20, your son knows that, and he is gambling that he can get away with it. And he’s going to do that regardless of what you think about it. If he wants to try his luck, I encourage you to back out of the way and let fate take its course.

Does your son need help? Sure, he does. Does he believe he needs help with his substance abuse? I doubt it. (Pan to your son, :rolleyes:. I have seen that look so many times.) The help he wants from you, Dolores, is to be rescued from the problems that he has contributed to or outright caused. Love him but don’t enable him. He got himself into these problems, let him get himself out. Give him love and direction and advice when he asks. Help him find addresses when he is called to court. Then let the remainder be on him. Right now your son is convinced that he knows about 3-4X what you do. He also thinks he’s 10 feet tall and bullet-proof. After all, prison only happens to REAL criminals, not pot-smokers, right? :smack:

And for those of you who may be thinking I say these things because I’m an ultra-conservative right-wing fundie Republican, I’ll just share with you that I am really a recovered alcoholic/addict. I know whereof I speak, in the real-world sense, as well as academically, intellectually and occupationally.

Dolores, all my very best to you AND to your son.

44

Of course, he’s put out. Mom is calling his bluff. Too bad the probation officer doesn’t make it a condition of his probation. He is an adult, after all. Has he been looking every day? REALLY?

I agree with some of the other folks who wrote, that permitting him to stay in your home if he goes back to using IS enabling. Hopefully, he will stay clean. But you also have the right and the responsibility to remind him he is an ADULT, and with that title goes some major responsibilities, such as having a job, no matter how little it pays right now.

He’s really got you wrapped around his little finger, doesn’t he? I would probably tell him to sit down, write up his exact plan for doing all those things and we would go over it together.

:confused:    Common misconception: drug treatment is designed to MAKE the addict change.  **Dolores**, the drug rehab did exactly what it was supposed to do: it provided information, direction and support for those people who decided to utilize it.  It was your son who chose to get nothing out of it.  After all,  I'm sure in his mind, all that drug-stuff didn't apply to him.  My hope is that someday he really does see that he is having problems in his life due at least in part to his drug abuse.  That is always the start of possible sobriety.

Again, all my best to you.

45

We threw my 21-year-old (at the time) stepson out of the house…and he wasn’t in any trouble with the law. However, he was (as I said) 21; he couldn’t/wouldn’t hold a job for more than a couple of weeks; he spent most of his time sitting around playing video games. He had a $6,000.00 loan from ECPI that we were making payments on for him - and we are a paycheck-to-paycheck household as it is.

I’m the one who instigated it, but my hubman eventually understood what I was saying - that Stepson was simply not going to become a grown-up until it became absolutely necessary, and that it wasn’t going to become necessary until he had to carry his own weight.

Since then, he has developed more appreciation for what it’s like to be a human being. You don’t just automatically have water when you turn on the faucet. Heat in the winter isn’t a given. A telephone is actually a luxury item. And that’s if you can afford to live somewhere in the first place.

Your kid whined, “But they’ll put me in jail!” Your response should be, “Whose fault is that?” It’s not his parole officer’s fault, or your fault, or the judge’s fault, that’s for sure. What he needs to learn is accountability, and if he isn’t shown personal consequences for his (apparently continual) screw-ups, he’ll never understand that his problems are his problems.

IMNPFHO, you can grow up to be a human being, or a waste. Everyone is BORN a human being. We do our best to RAISE human beings. Only the person him or herself, though, can WASTE that. You’ve tried to raise a human being. It’s up to him whether or not he ends up being a waste.

46

UPDATE:

He went to see his PO. She told him he had to go to jail (county) for 4 days, then go to court next Wednesday. I assume that’s for the re-evaluation.

I thought he was telling me the truth when he told me dejectedly, “And I had a job interview at Rockfish (a restaurant) at 3:00.” He has to go in to jail today at 1:30. I told him to call them and reschedule the interview for Friday. If he can get the job before Wednesday, maybe the judge will see that favorably.

I’ve held firm, even though I feel kinda bad. But he might have told me that just to MAKE me feel bad. I don’t get that impression, but I’m not the greatest judge, unfortunately.

He’s done weekend jail before. He’ll be OK, and so will I.

I’ll keep y’all posted.
Oh, I’m sorry if I gave y’all the wrong idea. I am a single mom, sort of, but I remarried in February. My husband and son get along with each other pretty well. Since my son is practically grown my husband isn’t really his parent, you know? We discuss things together with him, of course.

I know it’s probably hard for my son to see me moving on with my life, and we’ve talked and talked and talked about that. He says he wants me to be happy.

Anyway, that’s what’s happening. Thank you all for the encouragement to stay firm.

47

Dolores, good for you for standing your ground! Your son needs to learn to take responsibility for his actions. I understand that his father’s death was hard on him, but it sounds to me like he set up this pattern of behavior long before his father died. Also, part of being an adult (a real, honest-to-Og adult, not just a child’s mentality in a grown-up body) is to stop making excuses and start owning up to your responsibilities. That doesn’t mean you’ll never make mistakes or do anything dumb. It does mean that when you make the mistakes, you’ll admit it was a mistake and pay the price, if there’s a price attached.

I’ll be thinking about you this week, and praying for you to stay strong (unless you’d rather I didn’t pray on your behalf, in which case I’ll just think about you).

48

All prayers gratefully accepted, thanks! And you’re right, it was going on well before his dad died. A long history of lying, and covering up, and blaming everything else.

49

Update:

When I didn’t hear from him after court this morning, I finally called the jail and asked if they had him. They did. Seems he will be going to Residential Boot Camp (whatever that is) for the two years. It sounds much better than prison, and maybe he will learn a thing or two.

I’m so sad, though. It feels like a failure on my part, even though I know it’s not. He will come out of this with a felony on his record. The dumbass wouldn’t listen to me, or any of his friends.

Maybe he’ll get out early for good behavior. :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

50

I’m so sorry you have to go through this! I know about feeling like a bad mom. My 17-year-old has made me feel that way a lot of times over the past couple of years. Just keep telling yourself “I’m a good mother, and it’s not my fault” Lather, rinse, repeat.

51

You’ve been a good mom. You are a good mom. Take a deep breath and know you’ve done the right thing.

52

Hang in there. I’m sorry you are sad. I would be too. I feel you have done the right thing.

53

The the staff of the Residential Boot Camp is decent, he should come out a better man, in my opinion. If nothing else, responsibility and work will have become a habit.

54

Oh, that’s hard. You are a good mom, because you’re worried about him. I hope this whole situation works out for you both in the long run. Hang in there in the meanwhile.

55

These rules will alter drastically once the Selective Service becomes an Active Draft again. G.W. is rapidly running out of fresh meat for the grinder. :frowning:

As for the O.P., I feel awful for how things have turned out for your boy. I hope that this “boot camp” is not simply work prison, but has a real component of rehab built into it. The felony conviction will be difficult to live with, I can’t imagine how one is accepted into the work force with that but I know that many folks are after paying their dues. I hope fervently that he comes out of the two years with a straightened head on his shoulders.

I am sorry for your pain as well, Dolores. You mentioned in this thread that your husband died this past January. You mentioned further down that you remarried this past February. Can it be that he’s been acting with such disregard for his own future out of anger over your remarriage, and over anger over his father’s passing? Seems to me this kid needs therapy, not boot camp. I wish that the Judge had seen fit to try that first.
Cartooniverse

56

20 and a dropout? Is he still living at home with you? Boot his ass out into the street right friggin’ NOW!

And if he goes to jail, too bad. Actions have consequences.

57

Clothahump - Did you not read the entire thread? Delores Reborn just posted that her son was sent today to a two-year stint in a boot-camp.

Delores Reborn - My thoughts and prayers are with you tonight. You’ve done the best you could for your son. Now it’s up to him to grow up.

StG

58

I know you feel rotten, but the hallmark of a good parent is that he or she always does what is best for the child, no matter what. Forcing your son to take the consequences of his own choices is what’s best for him, even though it’s horribly hard on you. Try not to worry too much, because you’re obviously a good mother.

59

Several years ago, a married man tried to make me feel like I was a bad person because I wouldn’t have an affair with him (he was madly in love with me, you see :rolleyes: ). In my youth, people tried to make me feel like a prude because I wouldn’t swear and wasn’t interested in sex. It seems to me one of the standard tactics used to corrupt good people is to try to convince them they are bad people, especially when they’re doing the right thing. You are. One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that doing the right thing is often harder than doing the wrong thing, thus the rule of thumb, “If it feels hard, it may well be right.”

Stand firm, lady, and know a bunch of us are standing behind you, ready to support you if you need us. Yes, it will hurt. That doesn’t make it any less right or you any less of a good person. Hopefully your son will see that in time.

CJ

60

Good news!

I was totally misinformed by the beaurocracy. His probation has NOT been revoked. The judge has sentenced him to in-patient rehab. I hope that this experience has him “scared straight.” I don’t know the length of treatment yet, but hopefully it will be successful, and he will grow up and face that this could have been for real.

He will still be on probation, and still has a chance to come out of all this with no record.

Whew. Thank you all for your warmth and support.