This is my first time Pitting a Doper. It’s something I don’t normally condone, but my post in response to Sinful’s extended hijack of a halfway-decent Cafe Society thread quickly turned into something more appropriate for the Pit. And, well… this just needs to be said, and I didn’t want to continue the hijack.
Before I forget, here’s the thread where it began. It’s a pretty harmless discussion, to begin with, but Sinful decides to use it as a pulpit for her (?) own skewed and unsupported views about pornography. She starts in without a hint of actually addressing the OP, linking to an anti-porn website (which, as Miller points out, cites such compelling sources as “Friends” – yes, kids, the television series – as evidence of its claims) and citing a number of unsupported statistics, absent any sort of concrete source, or even a hint of where they came from. Predictably, her post is challenged.
In her response to the critics, she continues the hijack. A high point of this second post is the statement that “Porn is not fiction.” Allow me to address this for a moment.
Porn is not fiction, Sinful? Then what is it, documentary? A fucking PBS special on Raising the Mammoth, is it? I suppose you think that the outrageous scenarios filmed or recorded reflect reality, do you? Or is every actor who ever graced the screen (large or small) a vile pornographer in your mind?
Let’s look at a real fact: a definition.
Choose your poison, Sinful – by any of the three definitions above, porn is most definitely fiction. More importantly, it is not fact, and it does not represent reality. Most people don’t seem to have a problem with that concept. In fact, you seem to be the only one in the thread who does. Carrying on…
A bit later, Sinful asks a couple rhetorical questions… again, completely without any sort of fact to support her obvious conclusions.
Otherwise known as, “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?” in reverse.
And what if it doesn’t? Fuck this “what-if, what-if” shit… either show that what you say has merit in the world of reason, or go the fuck away. Oh, and this little gem:
That’s fine for you, but what about the people who do like the idea? What about those (both male and female) who get off on interacting on those levels. There are plenty of them. More than you probably know. Should they accede to your moral code, should they skew their own preferences to be more like yours? Based on your tone throughout that thread, this seems to be what you want.
I’m deliberately ignoring the claptrap about free speech and an undefined group of “feminists,” as it has already been thoroughly debunked in the linked thread.
From her next post:
Sinful’s second sentence here proves the truth of the first. Porn brainwashes men and children? Again, with no evidence to support the claim other than a blog article (which, itself, has no supported stats)? Yeah, I’d pretty say that’s ignorant. Right on the fucking money.
And here we go again, later…
This is where it really started getting to me. My wife has a very healthy sense and awareness of her sexuality. So do a number of her friends. They have all, to the last, watched porn, and enjoyed it. Further, their significant others (male and female) watch porn, and enjoy it. There’s not a rapist among them, and frankly, the state of their sexuality is just fine… but thanks for asking. Your assumptions in this statement alone are deeply insulting.
Oh, it’s not, hmm? And you know this because of your personal experience in the porn industry? Or is it, instead, coming from a bunch of shit you read and bought into with nary a thought in your addled brain? Oh, look… here we go…
This is such shit… a perfect example of the bullshit that manages to sell both men and women short when talking about gender issues. Nowhere is woman treated according to her merit? I beg to differ, Sinful, and very strongly. I treat women according to their merit constantly, which means with respect and with courtesy. Whether I’m working with them, talking to them as friends, or passing them on the street, I see them as people. Not objects, but living breathing people. According to you, since I’ve been “brainwashed” by porn, this is impossible, but I assure you it is true. And it’s true for more men than I can count on all my digits.
Oh, really? So, women not being able to vote, not being able to get a job, not having any legal standing, not having any recognition for their work (most of which was still in effect a century ago or less) – these things have not changed? Women are still the subservient, inferior sex that they were seen as only a few decades ago?
Fucking prove it.
Oh? Then why do they look so much better, to most of us with eyes? This is such a ridiculous statement, it falls flat on its own.
Ah, so not being able to own property or hold down a job requiring something more than clerical skills wasn’t that big a deal. Of course.
Which, of course, you didn’t. Par for the course at this point. I’m not holding my breath that you’ll come up with anything more than more blogs and nonsense.
Also, it was funny, as the thread progressed, to see Sinful’s claims go from “all” porn is bad to “99%” is bad to “the vast majority” (weasel words) is bad. Next it’ll be, “well some of it’s bad!” And all in a thread which Sinful completely hijacked.
Here’s the thing: If you wanted to say that some porn is unhealthy, or that overexposure to extreme porn is unhealthy, I might agree with you. I imagine that most others would as well. However, your blatantly overdone assertions and weak concessions do nothing to prove the point, and your insistence that you are right and everyone else in the thread is wrong ruins it completely.
In the final analysis, you’re selling both genders short. You’re selling men short because you’re basically saying that they’re nothing but slaves to what they see and hear in front of them. Plant a magazine with a big-breasted woman on the cover in front of their eyes, and they must like big breasted women! Let them watch a porn movie and they immediately have the urge to go rape a woman! Of course, the link is so clear! :rolleyes:
What’s even worse is that your selling women short as well. The confident, lovely women who own their sexuality and feel good about themselves, whatever their body type? Oh, they’re fooling themselves, because “no woman” can possess a healthy self-image or sexuality until porn is stamped out! And of course, women who actually enjoy watching porn as part of their sex lives are even worse; they’re victims of the “beauty myth” and they can’t possibly understand just how much harm they’re doing. That’s your assertion.
Sinful, what you have to realize is that your opinions on self-image, sexuality, and pornography are, in themselves, extremely unhealthy. Further, they are an insult to both men and women, the latter of which I’m at least certain that you didn’t intend to insult. Nevertheless, you did, and you continue to do so with your narrow, restrictive views of what is and is not acceptable in the realm of sexuality.
You don’t think you have a cramped world view? Well, news flash: you do. You don’t think you’re ignorant about pornography? Look at all the people who disagree with you… reasonable, intelligent people who can watch porn and still respect women. You are ignorant.
Healthy sexuality is a broad spectrum, Sinful. It can incorporate everything from BDSM to dom/sub relationships to pornography to oral sex to the missionary position. Just because you don’t realize it or can’t accept it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
And what’s really funny is, I don’t even like porn that much. I just find it amazing that anyone, even with a name like Sinful, could have such a narrow, restrictive, 17th-century view of sexuality in this day and age. Even worse, the skewed view of reality required to see sexuality and pornography in this negative light just boggles the mind.
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, Sinful. But you can go jump in it anyway.
Whew… I don’t think I enjoyed that, but it had to be said.
