So, gentlemen, how *DO* I discuss erectile dysfunction with my man? Long, hard and...

In My Humble Opinion
61

[QUOTE=astro]
My response was a emphatic because it was responding to the exceptionally tiresome refrain of “Oh you men and your penises” line that many women like to haul out to show how stressed, obsessed and shallow men are with respect to being concerned about their erectile performance. My point was that sexually active women most emphatically DO judge men on their erectile performance, so if you are a man and want to have a relationship with a sexually active woman you’d damn well better be concerned about it.

I am sure there there are women (even some younger ones) who are not all that sexually active for one reason or another, and for whom erectile performance may be an afterthought in a partner, but for most of the women I’ve been intimate with it’s definitely not an afterthought, and some hold it as the gold standard that attests to of their sexual attractiveness and physical desirability. Cuddling and oral skills may take you far, but if you cannot progress to the next phase of intimacy women with options will terminate the relationship if an erection is not in the cards or the boxers. Sadly, and regretfully perhaps, but they will terminate it.
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This is crap. And, not only is it crap, it’s offensive crap. Just for starters, broad brush much? Oh, hey, and while we’re at it, what the hell is up with your assumption here that only women who aren’t sexually active will put up with a guy who has ED moments? Most guys have ED moments at least on occasion. Are you going to sit there with a straight face and tell the world that you’ve never been unable to rise to the occasion (so to speak)? Really? Never been too drunk or too tired or just plain not feeling it? Never had a moment when anxiety got the better of you? I, personally, have never dated a fella who was always right there with an erection the second I wanted one (or, more accurately, never to my knowledge - I dated a number of gentlemen with whom the question never arose). In fact, after taking a quick poll of my sexually active female friends - not a damn one of us has ever dated someone who never had an erectile dysfunction. It happens - and it’s no big thing unless the guy in question makes it one.

I’m not saying it’s an afterthought. For a lot of women, penetrative intercourse is a valued part of their intimate life (including me), but if all one wants is the proverbial high hard one, there is a staggering variety of battery-operated, 100% reliable mechanical sources available from which to choose. Many of which can be operated just as easily by a fella. I certainly wouldn’t throw back a perfectly good boyfriend because his penis wasn’t always all it could be.

Okay, if you’re dating women who are only in it for the fuck, then you probably have a point. But “in it for the fuck” =/= a relationship. I can see it being a deal-breaker if a fella has *continual and/or persistent * ED problems and shows no interest in seeing what can be done about it, but that’s not even in the same solar system as “dropping him like a hot rock because he can’t get it up”. Hell, I’d probably break up with someone who wouldn’t at least get persistent ED investigated on the grounds that he’s got a cavalier attitude towards his own health. ED is often a symptom of a serious health issue - as anyone who watches TV can tell ya. Those damn commercials are ubiquitous. If he could never get an erection, I might have to do some careful thinking - but “never” and “not always” aren’t even close to the same thing. Erectile dysfunction isn’t the same as “total erectile inability”, sir.

[QUOTE=astro]
And quite frankly I don’t begrudge them the right to make this decision. I doubt I would want to initiate and sustain a physical relationship with a woman who found intimate sex impossible for whatever reason. I might feel sympathy for her and regret for her circumstance, but I would move on as vaginal intercourse is an important component of a physical relationship to me. I could be friends with her, but I would not pretend to be her lover.
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I guess it’s good that you don’t begrudge her the right to make sexual decisions - but you’re making several errors in your stance: first, that all sexually active women require vaginal intercourse to be sexually satisfied; second, that ED is fundamentally equivalent to no vaginal intercourse ever; third, all sexually active women put “ability to have penetrative intercourse with the penis” on the deal breaker level in relationships; fourth, that only women who are scraping the bottom of the barrel would be willing to settle for a guy with ED.

That last one is the part I find most offensive, just in case you’re wondering. There’s a lot of things on my list of “Things I Require In A Sexual Partner” and “being able to get a stiffy”, while on the list, doesn’t break top five. I’m not totally sure it breaks top ten. I know I’m not alone in my stance on this matter. Ask any one of the millions of women in a stable sexual and romantic relationship with a fella with ED.

62

[QUOTE=Ferret Herder]
Plus most everyone who’s seen those Levitra/Cialis/whatever commercials should know by now that cardiovascular problems can lead to erectile issues. So if that’s the problem, not only is he in denial, he risks some major trouble with his health.
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So can diabetes. And substance abuse problems. And of course vascular damage.

63

I’m with the majority, the guy does sound like a waste of skin. So to speak.

I’m also a 40-year old woman, I have dated men in my age range, and I have run in to this issue myself. And I do talk about it. It’s part of what’s happening in bed, and what’s happening in bed is part of what’s happening in the relationship.

When is a good time? Well, like the OP, I am multi-orgasmic. So, after things have gotten generally comfortable in bed (i.e. not the first week or so), and after a good rousing session during which there is no question as to whether everyone involved is quite satisfied, I mention it. “Gee honey, I notice that sometimes everything is not quite as hard as it was before, is everything OK?” And the reply I usually get is “Yeah, I know. Nerves, it happens” And I say “Figured” And that is the end of the conversation.

No big deal. Occasionally a pharmaceutical can be introduced for a special occasion. But again, no big deal.

I wouldn’t even go as far as calling it ED. Younger guys seem to have erections all the time. Once you get a little older, not so much. But it’s not a dysfunction, and it’s not a disease unless you can’t have them.

64

[QUOTE=tdn]
Hoo boy, the things I am willing to admit on a public message board in the name of fighting ignorance. And there is abundant ignorance in this thread. Y’all better appreciate what I’m about to do for you here.
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Nice post. Informative, funny, honest. Appreciated.

65

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
Nice post. Informative, funny, honest. Appreciated.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you! :slight_smile:

66

[QUOTE=astro]
My response was a emphatic because it was responding to the exceptionally tiresome refrain of “Oh you men and your penises” line that many women like to haul out to show how stressed, obsessed and shallow men are with respect to being concerned about their erectile performance.
[/QUOTE]
Your point is taken and understood. I don’t necessarily agree with it but your experience is obviously vastly different than mine.

The “oh, you men and your penises” comes from a very legitimate place. As a woman, I just don’t get it. Lets take the OP for example. An extreme case, maybe, but he was so wrapped up in his penile performance issues that he had even made up a “psychological distancing” position to excuse his inability to perform. Had he taken that energy to try to (1) address the problem for what it was and (2) learn to adapt and overcome (please, no puns) he may find that he’s a better lover and partner than any old man with a hard dick.

I regret that many women put an erect penis in front of the nine million other qualities that make a good life partner. Lesbians have certainly figured out how to have a sexually fulfilling life without a penis, so I’d think that a reasonably intelligent man and woman could do the same.

67

[QUOTE=Aangelica]
In fact, after taking a quick poll of my sexually active female friends - not a damn one of us has ever dated someone who never had an erectile dysfunction. It happens - and it’s no big thing unless the guy in question makes it one.
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I get what you are saying, but I want to make one point in regards to the above. It becomes a big thing when the woman says something like:

[QUOTE=phouka, but could be any woman]
But, I’m feeling a bit insecure.
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Look, when it happens the guy knows he has a problem. Bringing up the ‘insecure’ part, even if it’s true, is just more pressure on the guy. If you ladies know and accept that it happens, then don’t make it about yourselves if you want to help. Talking about the ED it is fine, inferring that the problem means he doesn’t care about you is not.

68

I’d just like to interject a little about the ‘morning wood = no physical problem’ belief that the OP has.

For some reason, the human body functions differently (in some ways) during sleep. Just like a person with Parkinson’s disease who shakes all the time will cease to do so when asleep, it is also entirely possible for a man with age-related ED to still have erections during sleep or in the morning before he awakes. Mostly this a subconscious response to prevent urination while sleeping. Once the person awakes (and is therefore able to go to the bathroom) the erection often subsides immediately.

Also, men with ED can sometimes manipulate themselves into either a full-blown erection or at least one that is workable, but these are frequently short-lived. Masturbation to orgasm is possible, but it has to occur fairly quickly.

Most ED medications work very well with men with this type of ED.

Disclaimer: No conclusions whatsoever are to be drawn regarding the information above and the poster known as Starving Artist. He has relatives who post here and has always made it his practice to avoid posting personal information regarding the subject of sex. Plus, he reads a lot. :smiley:

69

[QUOTE=Aangelica]
I guess it’s good that you don’t begrudge her the right to make sexual decisions - but you’re making several errors in your stance: first, that all sexually active women require vaginal intercourse to be sexually satisfied; second, that ED is fundamentally equivalent to no vaginal intercourse ever; third, all sexually active women put “ability to have penetrative intercourse with the penis” on the deal breaker level in relationships; fourth, that only women who are scraping the bottom of the barrel would be willing to settle for a guy with ED.

That last one is the part I find most offensive, just in case you’re wondering. There’s a lot of things on my list of “Things I Require In A Sexual Partner” and “being able to get a stiffy”, while on the list, doesn’t break top five. I’m not totally sure it breaks top ten. I know I’m not alone in my stance on this matter. Ask any one of the millions of women in a stable sexual and romantic relationship with a fella with ED.
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Re your characterization that I’m discussing “intermittent” erectile dysfunction, which can be attributable to virtually anything under the sun, at no point in my posts, did I intend to indicate that I was talking about anything other than men with *chronic, persistent erectile dysfunction * so you can put that straw man aside.

There are certainly many long term committed relationships where non-elderly men and women have reached mutual accommodation without the man having the capacity to maintain an erection, but in the context of sexually active 30 to 40 + year old women initiating new relationships in the singles dating scene, in my experience it’s most certainly within the top five list of “Things I Require In A Sexual Partner”. That metric may change as people age, one partner has some disabling medical condition, or other aspects of the relationship come to the fore, but the notion that in the real world of sexually active women looking for relationship partners that it’s way down on the list of “Things I Require In A Sexual Partner” is simply, and utterly absurd.

Women aren’t going to bring this up at the very front end of relationship, but once they determine you can live up to their performance expectations all the stories start spilling about how relieved they are because some other guy they dated who was was rich/cute/ kind to animals etc. couldn’t make it a happen for them.

Now either I’m living in a fantasy land or you are, because my memory of these fairly explicit conversations about how much they liked and valued a man to be hard for them is still fairly clear. Among these women were respectively a Pediatrican, a PHD in Secondary Education, and a mortgage banker. They talked in clear and declarative sentences about this issue, and I had no problem understanding them. Pretending it’s “no big deal” for most sexually active women is simply disingenuous.

70

[QUOTE=astro]
Now either I’m living in a fantasy land or you are, because my memory of these fairly explicit conversations about how much they liked and valued a man to be hard for them is still fairly clear. Among these women were respectively a Pediatrican, a PHD in Secondary Education, and a mortgage banker. They talked in clear and declarative sentences about this issue, and I had no problem understanding them. Pretending it’s “no big deal” for most sexually active women is simply disingenuous.
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And I’ve talked to plenty of men (a lawyer, and investment banker and a bartender among them, if it’s relevant) who proclaim loudly and to great length that they loooove a woman with a great set of knockers and any ironboard chicks need not apply and Pamela Anderson is just a but underundowed…and then they go home to their B cup wives and girlfriends. What we say to each other is often very different from what we will accept or even require in private.

I think the truth is that most women looking for more than a hook-up will be a bit uncertain how to proceed if a new mate has ED, but how he handles it is taken into account far more than the physical malady. Is he comfortable(ish) talking about it, seeking medical care and confident of his ability to give me pleasure and show me how to pleasure him in the meantime? No problem. Does he spew hot molten crazy and try to blame me for being concerned? Fuck him. How he handles this is a great preview of how he may handle other sensitive issues in our relationship.

71

[QUOTE=Dag Otto]
Look, when it happens the guy knows he has a problem. Bringing up the ‘insecure’ part, even if it’s true, is just more pressure on the guy. If you ladies know and accept that it happens, then don’t make it about yourselves if you want to help. Talking about the ED it is fine, inferring that the problem means he doesn’t care about you is not.
[/QUOTE]

You are, I think, the second or third man in this thread to specifically note that. What I meant at the time was not, “I’m insecure that you don’t find me attractive.” It was “I’m insecure that I’m not being a good lover.” The former, obviously, puts way too much pressure on the man. The latter probably isn’t much better.

Consider that comment shelved.

72

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
And I’ve talked to plenty of men (a lawyer, and investment banker and a bartender among them, if it’s relevant) who proclaim loudly and to great length that they loooove a woman with a great set of knockers and any ironboard chicks need not apply and Pamela Anderson is just a but underundowed…and then they go home to their B cup wives and girlfriends. What we say to each other is often very different from what we will accept or even require in private.

I think the truth is that most women looking for more than a hook-up will be a bit uncertain how to proceed if a new mate has ED, but how he handles it is taken into account far more than the physical malady. Is he comfortable(ish) talking about it, seeking medical care and confident of his ability to give me pleasure and show me how to pleasure him in the meantime? No problem. Does he spew hot molten crazy and try to blame me for being concerned? Fuck him. How he handles this is a great preview of how he may handle other sensitive issues in our relationship.
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Thanks WhyNot! This is what I was trying to get at, but you said it much more clearly than I did. The women of my acquaintance (who seem to be vastly different in attitude than the women astro knows) would base their decisions on whether or not to continue seeing a guy with persistent and continual ED on how he was handling it rather than the fact of the ED itself. Has he seen a doctor? Made sure his general health is fine? Is he actively seeking work-arounds that will ensure everyone has a good time? Is he willing to try new things to make sure everyone has a good time? Yes? Okey dokey then - probably not a dealbreaker, and certainly not a dealbreaker all on its own.

Dag Otto: regarding the insecurity thing, keep in mind that in the OP, phouka mentions that the guy originally framed his ED as a trust issue, not a physical problem. In other words, he let on that it was a temporary deal that would fade as his trust in her and their relationship deepened and grew. Put on that footing, it’s totally reasonable to be feeling sort of insecure if you’re thinking of his ED in that light rather than as a purely physiological deal - he’s the one who made his ED about her. By framing it as a trust issue to start with, that means that every time he couldn’t rise to the occasion, it was because he didn’t trust her enough. He made his problem her fault, pretty much. Maybe he didn’t mean it that way, but it’s not at all unreasonable for her to understand it that way - which means, by extension, that it’ll make a lady insecure if the problem keeps happening. If he’d framed it as a purely physical deal and nothing to do with her, then if she were insecure, that’s her being mental :slight_smile: A mechanical difficulty would have nothing to do with her, and should therefore no threat to her sexual self-image.

73

I think part of the problem is that so few people understand that the vast majority of ED cases are indeed of physiological origin and that it needs to be addressed on that level. If it’s viewed as being on a psychological level, then a huge number of men are going to think it’s because of some personal mental defect and a huge number of women are going to take it as a personal reflection of their attractiveness. Combine this with the fact that the subject is highly emotional, and you have a recipe for hurt feelings and misunderstandings.

Once again, a little education is a wonderful thing. It’s too bad that this particular topic is clouded by misinformation and cultural taboo.

74

Hey, y’all – have you heard about this study?

OP is right to ask, because to all appearances it WILL be coming up (so to speak) a LOT more in the future. I have noticed it already.

75

“Penguins”? Bad safe word. You never know when you might be in for some fantastic penguin sex.

Given the truly immature reaction of your lover to your quite reasonably broaching the issue, perhaps “erection” would have been a better safe word.

There are lots of other fish in the sea . . . go catch some and enjoy yourself (and their erections). Put the memory of this one in a very small envelope and toss it in a mail bin.

76

It’s possible that he had thought the problem would go away with time and trust, and your raising the subject made him realize that he was having more trouble than he thought, i.e. it might be a permanent problem for him.

Also, I don’t know how you phrased the part of the question about how much longer it would be before things were working right, but he probably honestly didn’t know the answer to that one. Depending on how it was phrased, it might not have been a reasonable question.

But basically it sounds like you asked gently and he was defensive.

77

[QUOTE=phouka]
We had jokingly agreed upon a safety word previously (“penguin,” if you must know), but there’d been no mention of it since that day. There was nothing going on at the time where I would have thought a safety word was necessary - no role playing, no bondage, nothing but vanilla. Also, he didn’t bring it up directly afterwards, but in the email a day and a half later, which led me to believe that he was rationalizing after the fact.
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I think this is way more disturbing than the ED problem, to me. If I’m with someone, and we haven’t decided we’re doing a “scene” and they just decide they’re not going to get off me as soon as I tell them…that’s a very bad thing. You can stay limp all you want, but attempt to sexually assault me, and you’re looking at a world of hurt.

78

[QUOTE=phouka]
I do have multiple orgasms. I have ever since I learned how to climax. Previously, he’d been thrilled with that, but I think he was so threatened he tried to use it as a comparison.
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I recently crossed paths with a very heavy duty roleplayer sub, she also didn’t seem to realize or care that not everyone shared her predilections. This needless to say resulted in a less that pleasant experience for all involved. Is it possible that this guy was some kind of acting out sub? Sounds like the male version of what I was confronted with.

I also had a little trouble about 10 years ago. Two different girlfriends, 2 pregnancies, and 2 messy breakups, made more than a little gunshy about sex for about another year or two.

Since it has hasn’t been said, and it appears you are now available…

How you doin, Phouka :wink: ?