As I’ve said on this board a couple of times, the only people I’ve seen use that word are alt-right assholes.
How is what they said supposed to be the “No True Scotsman” fallacy? They simply pointed out they’d never heard it used by liberals. They didn’t say that anyone who used the term was not a “true liberal.”
What I’m about to say at least could come off that way, though I assure you that I am also not using that fallacy.
I referred to that podcast upthread. They were hardly acting like liberals when they said it. They were attacking liberals for thinking Trump deliberately Tweets to try and takeover the news cycle and distract from other news stories of the day that make him look bad. They were caricaturing the actual anti-Trump point, pretending it meant we think he’s some master manipulator, rather than using a basic conman strategy.
They were acting very much like anti-Trump Republicans, who, while they attack Trump, always also have to find a way to attack liberals, too.
That’s not the “no true Scotsman” fallacy, as I am not saying that the word alone shows they weren’t liberal. I’m saying that they were not acting like liberals. They were making Republican-style arguments.
That’s hardly a basis for saying that the word has entered the wild. Given its meaning, it’s kinda hard for it to be used by liberals. Liberals don’t find the underlying concept to be an insult.
Maybe they really are liberals, but they would be quite atypical ones.
In this case, it very much does. Cuck predates cuckservative. It is not used as a shortened term for the latter. The latter is was coined to combine conservative and cuck into one word to make fun of conservative cucks.
People very much do call leftists “cucks.” I’ve been called one. Multiple other leftists have been called it.
And Sanders is quite often called a cuck. Especially after being beaten by Clinton, showing he’s not a “real man.”
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As pointed out, this is not a No True Scotsman argument. I’m simply relaying my experience. If some liberals do use that word unironically, they sound just as idiotic. It doesn’t make any sense, though, for it to be used outside the conservative circle, not because I think conservatives are idiots or anything, but because the word itself, at least as I’ve always heard it, is short for “cuckservative” and that’s a criticism from one conservative to another that the object of the word is something of a traitor to his party. That’s he’s somehow not one of the “real” conservatives, or is feeble and weak.
If the word has, indeed, gone beyond simply being shorthand for “cuckservative” and is used by the left in a similar way, it’s of course just as dumb. I just haven’t seen it in use that way, and it’s not like I suffer from not enough exposure to the left.
ETA: It looks like BigT has stated that the word has gone beyond simply being short for “cuckservative.” (ETA: Or, rather, predates “cuckservative.”) That’s not a usage of the word I am familiar with, but there are many sociodialect groups and I apparently am not part of one where “cuck” is used in that manner.
Using that term reveals an extremely toxic mish-mash of misogyny, racism, and crippling low self esteem.
IMO …
I was under the impression the “cuckservatives” were the group that was doing the Koch’s bidding. Or at least was seen as being such people during the whole Obama years. IOW “You think you’re a conservative but really all you are is a shill for the Kochs and the rest of the ruling class; you’re a ‘cuckservative’.”
Yes, “cuck” all by itself predates that by decades if not centuries. But the word was very out of fashion until it got a big revival in “cuckservative” as used by those RW talking heads.
Which then quickly got shortened back to “cuck” and then handily extended to apply to anything and everything the red pill alpha guys think isn’t them.
So what it means in 2007, 2015, and 2017 are three very different things. More than that what’s changed is *who *uses it and what the subtext meanings are.
My take is the opposite of yours - “cuck” somehow got resurrected as an insult to a beta man by the alt-right, of course short for “cuckold.” This was an insult to liberals. Then later when they wanted to smear a supposed-conservative for being too soft, the word morphed to “cuckservative.”
That was my take on the order of things, but I’ll be happy to go where the evidence leads.
As an aside, I first heard the word “cuckold” about 30 years ago when I was in my mid-twenties. An Italian guy I met mentioned that they have a hand gesture that means “cuckold” as an insult. Then he had to tell me what the word “cuckold” means. Then I still didn’t get how that’s supposed to be an insult to a GUY. It’s an insult to his woman, and I guess you’re indirectly insulting him by insulting his woman? I didn’t get the “not enough of a man” thing until recently.
It certainly sounds like you’re still trying to deny that it happens. Yet it has, as documented. Nor is that the only place i’ve heard it - just the one where I can point to it and you cna hear it yourself.
Your take is exactly where the evidence leads, aside from missing the first step before it gained a political meaning.
Cool research. Thanks.
I suppose my POV comes from not really being aware of the term “alt-right” until about 2015. Prior to that they didn’t really have a label used by the mainstream. To be sure, even back in 2004 there was plenty of anti-Obamaism that was simple racism. But back then the mainstream Rs took care to couch it in other more acceptable arguments.
And I take zero notice of 4chan.
Still and all, good to get the straight scoop.
I am not denying it happens. It is not the context I am familiar with hearing it in. If you notice, in my very first post I was very clear about qualifying my statements. How much clearer can I possibly be? The only context I hear it in these days (and the only one I’m familiar with) is by conservatives using it as shorthand for “cuckservative.” I see above that is has been used in other contexts, including one against Louis CK, apparently. They are equally idiotic in that context. Anyone who uses that word, regardless of political stripe, is making a less-than-favorable impression on me.
Also the race(s) of the men they fear the most.
FWIW my experience is the same as yours. Hence my confusion as played out in the last few posts.
I suppose that making it a point to prevent all alt-right noises from entering one’s life has some downsides. But I’ll be damned if I can figure what those might be. 