So, what are your thoughts on virginity?

In My Humble Opinion
21

[QUOTE=Mouse_Maven]
16 and it was my first sexual contact of any kind. (No dates in High School. I was rather unpopular.)

The “point on a continuum” is interesting. During my adolescence I lived in the town that’s the international headquarters of Focus on the Family. Saving yourself for marriage was a big thing. (I used to joke that I got into advanced biology class so I could learn about sex.) As a teenager, I was curious about sex but I was told that sex was bad and sex outside of marriage was a ticket to hell. For a while, I thought the rape was “punishment” for my curiousity - doing “bad” things like masterbating, etc.

I also thought that since I was no longer a virgin, no one would want me in a sexual way. I had this strange notion that men/boys only wanted virgins.
[/QUOTE]

IIRC from previous threads, you have a lot of cultural and familial baggage that I didn’t have to deal with, including men who act like idiots. (Pardon me, I seem to have dropped my tact somewhere.)

You know I was also raped as a child - from the time I was 8 or so until 12. When asked when I lost my virginity, my answer is, “I first had consentual sex when I was 17, and got pregnant my first time while using three forms of birth control! Can you believe it?” By the time they hear the end, they’re so interested in the pregnant thing that they’ve forgotten my someone stilited phrasing of “consentual sex.”

Still, it’s important for me to be honest. I “lost” my virginity in a technical sense when I was 8. But I lost it in every way that matters to me - trusting my boyfriend, being both eager and terrified, learning how to give and get pleasure from a man - when I was 17.

Considering that many girls tear their hymens as children, I don’t view the breaking of the hymen as the real loss of virginity. The real virginity is lost when you choose to cross a line you’ve never crossed before.

22

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
IIRC from previous threads, you have a lot of cultural and familial baggage that I didn’t have to deal with, including men who act like idiots. (Pardon me, I seem to have dropped my tact somewhere.)

You know I was also raped as a child - from the time I was 8 or so until 12. When asked when I lost my virginity, my answer is, “I first had consentual sex when I was 17, and got pregnant my first time while using three forms of birth control! Can you believe it?” By the time they hear the end, they’re so interested in the pregnant thing that they’ve forgotten my someone stilited phrasing of “consentual sex.”

Still, it’s important for me to be honest. I “lost” my virginity in a technical sense when I was 8. But I lost it in every way that matters to me - trusting my boyfriend, being both eager and terrified, learning how to give and get pleasure from a man - when I was 17.

Considering that many girls tear their hymens as children, I don’t view the breaking of the hymen as the real loss of virginity. The real virginity is lost when you choose to cross a line you’ve never crossed before.
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One of these days, I’ll have to get with the infamous samprio on the topic of “southern gothic.” You’re right, I had a lot of baggage. A southern family that was more interested in how things look than what’s really going on. (I’m from Louisiana originally. One example of the insanity I had growing up: My father’s family is lower-middle class and mormon. My mother’s family is upper-middle class and Methodist; the maternal side of the family refused to go to my parents’ wedding because of what my father’s family “was”. I saw my maternal grandmother for the first time this past May; she seems to be more open since her husband passed away.)

I’m glad to hear that you are doing ok. :slight_smile: I usually don’t talk about “first times” in person because I don’t want to think about it. Years of therapy and I’m have more sexual hang-ups than a tom-cat in love with a knit sweater.

23

I guess everybody has their own set of responses to sexual intimacy. I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to hold back, nor do I see anything wrong with wanting to forge ahead. The latter has more attendant risks, of course. I guess the main thing is that the two people (I’m assuming it’s two:)) involved are on the same page about the whole thing. Otherwise, one feels frustrated, the other threatened, or crowded, or violated, or something.

My first time, there was a mismatch (I was the frustrated one). It really sucked.

24

Because I was molested as a child, I never thought “virginity” was really that important. What was important to me was finding someone with whom I could relax. Someone who would never hurt me. That I didn’t have consensual sex until I was married was actually DeHusband’s idea. So that the wedding night would be “special” for me. (It was a very short engagement.) Nope, it was still horrible, but the marriage has been great.

25

Miscellaneous thoughts on virginity:

I am really bothered by what comes across to me as a cultural fetishisation of virginity in women. A lot of the obsessiveness around it comes across to me as turning women’s sexuality into a display object, and I find that extremely creepy. I also think that it devalues actual virginity – if it’s something to be paraded about, it comes across to me as having very similar emotional resonances to wanton promiscuity, because that person’s sexuality is being treated as a near-public property.

I think the choice to abstain from sex can be a very powerful one. Sexuality can be both intensely powerful and intensely personal; I tend to feel that it needs to be treated with some care and respect. At the same time, I do not think that this is the only powerful choice available regarding sexuality.

I consider individuals’ choices to have or abstain from sexual behaviour of whatever sort their own damn business, not mine. In some cases, the right choice for that particular person will be not engaging in sexual behaviour until marriage (or whatevr); in other cases, the right choice will be something else. I tend towards the opinion that people should have access to the information required to make a responsible decision (both risks and rewards of available options), but I don’t feel that I have the information required to make a decision for anyone else on the subject responsibly.

I do not, personally, consider virginity to have any particular value. (I recognise there are other people who are more inclined to consider it having intrinsic value; I don’t think they’re wrong in this belief, I just don’t happen to share it.) I do not take sex lightly, and have never had consensual sexual stuff happen outside a serious long-term relationship; I am fairly conservative in who I will get involved with in part because of this. I seem to be reiterating what Antigen said here, but it’s relevant: I find the first time with any partner very stressful. I also find doing new things sexually somewhat stressful (I’m negotiating some stuff with my boyfriend at the moment that’s very emotionally edgy for me), but this gets back to taking this stuff seriously. Virginity? Never really crossed my mind as somthing relevant to think about.

26

I’ve read that the younger you lose your virginity, the more likelier you are to get a std.
13 is too young. However, after a certain point, you begin to feel everyone is doing or has done something you haven’t and you feel left out.
I was 19 my first time and did it to get it over with, though it was a relationship. There was no orgasm, because I am female, but the next time there was.

27

If a young woman wants to remain virginal until her wedding night, she certainly should be comfortable and even proud to do that. She should not, however, lord it over other people as if she’s somehow special. It’s a personal preference, plain and simple, and doesn’t make a person somehow better than another person.

If a woman chooses to become sexually active, she needs to understand the consequences of that, both good and bad, and get some knowledge of how to deal with them.

If a woman is robbed of her virginity, she needs help, pure and simple. Having your virginity taken away from you doesn’t damage you (beyond the pain, both physical and emotional, that it causes) and any man who thinks you’re not good enough because you’ve been raped doesn’t value you as a human being. You don’t need that kind of abuse.

28

You should do it when you want to for whatever reason seems best to you.

29

I really don’t mean this to be insulting or offensive, but I have a question for the people that are waiting/have waited for marriage. Why? Is a religious consideration? Moral? Personal conviction?

I just don’t understand it. There are only a few people that I know that are waiting for marriage. One doesn’t seem to have a reason, other than that’s what her boyfriend wants, but even she doesn’t seem to understand his reasoning. Another was a girl I was briefly aquainted with (she was dating a friend at the time) who was very holier than thou about it and something about a religious conviction, although she wasn’t very religious in any other way so that always struct me as strange. Everyone else I know that is still a virgin is so out of an inability to find a partner of acceptable quality.

I understand wanting sex to be special, and I would never have sex with someone that I couldn’t imagine spending the rest of my life with or at least around. Not that I would want to spend the rest of my life with, mind you, but one of the consequences of sex is children, and I would at least want to be able to tolerate the father of my child, in the hypothetical sense. But saving it for marriage is something I really can’t wrap my mind around.

As I said, I’m not trying to offend anyone, I’m just really rather curious.

30

[QUOTE=FlyingRamenMonster]
I think virginity is a state of mind.
[/QUOTE]
I think we need a different word for it. The word virgin classically means a young girl. Using it on someone not so young, or male, is emasculating and infantilizing at the same time.

Of course, you may say, if the shoe fits…

31

“Virginity” is, in essence, nothing. The state of never having had sex before isn’t something meaningful. It’s a holdover of cultural attitudes that held women as being possessions rather than human beings.

Sex is one of the most wonderful parts of being a human being and choosing to not have it at all is kind of stupid, IMHO.

32

I’m with gFloyd and RickJay on this one. If you’re turning down opportunities for sex that you would normally be interested in simply to conform to a religious or cultural myth of the magical first time, I think you’re denying a crucial part of your humanity.

If you haven’t had sex simply because you haven’t met anyone you want to have sex with, yet, I can understand that. I’m not saying you should have sex just to have sex. But we’ve created this cultural narrative that strongly implies that love=great sex, which is rarely going to be true (right off the bat, anyway), which I think is why so many people’s first experiences are bad. I can’t even imagine waiting until my wedding night.

The fetishization of virginity seems to go hand in hand with oppressive patriarchal cultures. I can’t even begin to tell you how much it creeps me out the way parents (especially “Daddies”) are regarded as “guardians” of their daughter’s “purity” (Google “purity ball” for some really skeevy stuff). I blame the fetishization of virginity for all the bad sex people are having. When you’re taught that your prime value is your ability to hurt for a man the first time you have sex, you’re going to get pretty screwed up. Your sexuality is just a commodity handed over to your husband by your father, which is beyond gross.

We need way more sex education in this country, and I think that if we took the concept of virginity less seriously, it would actually lead to more people waiting to have sex until they were ready. Teach kids about their bodies, let them explore safely on their own, and we could probably cut the teen pregnancy/std rate in half in no time.

33

[QUOTE=Victorian Squid]
I’m with gFloyd and RickJay on this one. If you’re turning down opportunities for sex that you would normally be interested in simply to conform to a religious or cultural myth of the magical first time, I think you’re denying a crucial part of your humanity.

If you haven’t had sex simply because you haven’t met anyone you want to have sex with, yet, I can understand that. I’m not saying you should have sex just to have sex. But we’ve created this cultural narrative that strongly implies that love=great sex, which is rarely going to be true (right off the bat, anyway), which I think is why so many people’s first experiences are bad. I can’t even imagine waiting until my wedding night.

The fetishization of virginity seems to go hand in hand with oppressive patriarchal cultures. I can’t even begin to tell you how much it creeps me out the way parents (especially “Daddies”) are regarded as “guardians” of their daughter’s “purity” (Google “purity ball” for some really skeevy stuff). I blame the fetishization of virginity for all the bad sex people are having. When you’re taught that your prime value is your ability to hurt for a man the first time you have sex, you’re going to get pretty screwed up. Your sexuality is just a commodity handed over to your husband by your father, which is beyond gross.

We need way more sex education in this country, and I think that if we took the concept of virginity less seriously, it would actually lead to more people waiting to have sex until they were ready. Teach kids about their bodies, let them explore safely on their own, and we could probably cut the teen pregnancy/std rate in half in no time.
[/QUOTE]

The whole Purity Ball movement inspired me to start this thread. I do believe that sexual activity is a personal decision and an intimate act. I do not like the idea of a father seeing his daughter’s sex life as property. IMHO, these balls (heheheh :smiley: ) are on a slippery slope. What’s next? “Honor” killings? (OK, social ostracism is more likely, but that can be just as bad.)

How to discuss sex with my children is something I have been thinking about. (Borrowing trouble, since the pups haven’t been conceived or born yet.) I think I’d tell them that sex is a complex thing; a combination of emotional and physical desire with many medical and social strings attached. I would want them to be safe, and start whenever they think they are ready. (I hope that would be in their 20’s when they have some more life experience.) But I would let them know that I love them no matter what.

34

I’m not curious about why someone wants to remain virgin for however long they want to, any more than I’m curious why someone wants their steak rare or prefers lemon pie to carrot cake. It’s a personal preference. I have my own reasons for wanting my hair cut a particular way, and it’s nobody else’s business why. Just because you prefer something different from me doesn’t mean I owe you an explanation.

35

Damn straight. But can we get rid of the word? I hate being the PC police, but sometimes, language does matter.

36

[QUOTE=Mouse_Maven]
The whole Purity Ball movement inspired me to start this thread. I do believe that sexual activity is a personal decision and an intimate act. I do not like the idea of a father seeing his daughter’s sex life as property. IMHO, these balls (heheheh :smiley: ) are on a slippery slope. What’s next? “Honor” killings? (OK, social ostracism is more likely, but that can be just as bad.)
[/QUOTE]

I think they’re horribly creepy edging towards utterly vile. I, shall we say, do not approve of people making a large public display of the sexuality of minor children.

37

[QUOTE=Mouse_Maven]
How to discuss sex with my children is something I have been thinking about. (Borrowing trouble, since the pups haven’t been conceived or born yet.) I think I’d tell them that sex is a complex thing; a combination of emotional and physical desire with many medical and social strings attached. I would want them to be safe, and start whenever they think they are ready. (I hope that would be in their 20’s when they have some more life experience.) But I would let them know that I love them no matter what.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I plan on never having kids, but my sister has a one year old daughter, and I have a feeling this is not going to be a popular subject with her. Which I don’t get, since it seems that if your goal is to have your kid delay sexual activity until she or he is personally ready, the best thing you can do is start talking about it early and demystify the subject.

My girlfriend is an atheist raised by atheists, and the only thing her mother ever made her promise was not to get married, not to abstain from sex. They bought her books about it as a kid as soon as she was curious, never made a big deal about it, and surprise, she was out of high-school and had found a person she considered worthy of her (luckily, it was me) before she had sex.

[TMI aside] How do we even define the boundary of virginity, anyway? My girlfriend and I spent an entire summer losing our virginity, working towards it very, very slowly so that she would never be uncomfortable or experience any pain. Did we lose our virginity the first time she had an orgasm while holding me at the edge of her vagina, or three months later when we had worked up to full penetration? Where along that continuum can you draw a line and say, OK, now we’ve had sex? [/TMI]

If you tell a kid that their body doesn’t belong to them, that it’s a gift she’s holding for a future husband, I think they’re more likely to be pressured into sex before they’re ready. After all, that experience was never her’s to claim. It belongs to a man by default. I can’t help but think of the analogy I hear most often from the anti-sex crowd: would you wan’t a lollypop after someone else had licked it? Leaving aside the phallic subtext, this is almost always aimed at girls. They clearly believe that sex damages or dirties you, and that you only have a finite amount of worth to share.

That’s what we need to leave behind as a society. It’s pretty clear that teenagers are going to fuck no matter what we say, so why on earth don’t we really prepare them for it?

38

[QUOTE=Sunrazor]
I’m not curious about why someone wants to remain virgin for however long they want to, any more than I’m curious why someone wants their steak rare or prefers lemon pie to carrot cake. It’s a personal preference. I have my own reasons for wanting my hair cut a particular way, and it’s nobody else’s business why. Just because you prefer something different from me doesn’t mean I owe you an explanation.
[/QUOTE]

Well, no, no one owes me an explanation. It should always be about personal preference, but the OP asked our opinions, and, yeah, I think if you’re not doing somehting you actually want to do for religious reasons, then I think it’s a little weird. Sorry.

I don’t care which food you choose, but if you really like ice cream, but you don’t eat it because someone said it was immoral, then I think you’re missing out and I find that sad.

39

[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
Damn straight. But can we get rid of the word? I hate being the PC police, but sometimes, language does matter.
[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure I understand your objection. From a casual glance in the dictionary it would seem that, although virgin can and often did denote a young woman, the primary usage is just “someone who has not had sex”. Was there some other special word for male virgin (aside from “Star Trek Fan” :smiley: ) that you had in mind?

40

My daughter and I talk about sex all the time. Not in a “Sit down, it’s time for a serious talk” kind of way, but in the same way we talk about books, or baseball. It’s just not a taboo subject at all.* Information is requested, imparted, or shared almost every day. We discuss the physical, emotional, and practical issues involved, and I’ve always taught her that it’s her body, and she needs to be responsible for it. I taught her how to use a condom with the same matter-of-factness with which I taught her how to use a tampon, which was with the same matter-of-factness with which I taught her to use a toothbrush. We’ve discussed various methods of birth control, and she knows that I’ll take her to the doctor to get whatever she decides on, but I also gave her a list of places she can get what she needs without my help, if she wants to. She knows that she can talk to me, but that only she can make decisions about her body and her feelings.

*A friend of mine was horrified when my daughter emailed me a nude picture of a favorite performer of ours, with commentary. I was a little taken aback for a minute but then just amused at her question, which was “That’s normalish, right?”, and a little bit tickled that apparently the first person she thought to consult about the “normalish” appearance of the human penis was her mom.