I see how you could interpret my post that way, but it was not my intent. Hug and make up?
My ex girlfriend (Remember Morgan, Matt?) always blasted me for wanting to be “normal”. It was a short relationship… anyway. All I want is to be “normal”. I want a house in the suburbs with two kids, some cats, a quiet girl to come home to, and a fricking white picket fence. (Okay, maybe not the fence.) I want stability, happiness, and a life without irrational fear.
Having said that, I’m not going to blast any gay person for wanting other things. When it comes down to it, there is no normal, and quite frankly, who am I to judge another’s happiness? I think that Matt’s life is just as fabulous as mine, and that we’re both relatively happy with the choices we’ve made.
I want what I want because what would make me happiest is to have quietgirl and I be treated just like everyone else. No, it’s not going to happen, but I’m not going to stop trying.
About my list… keep in mind that all of this happened to me while I was in high school, and a high school is a very constricting environment. You simply cannot escape your classmates, especially in as small a place as I went to. Almost anywhere else, you have a lot more control over your surroundings and company.
Goboy: hugz
snaps fingers We are fam-ah-LEE! catches disapproving glace Sorry.
thank you so very much, Duck Duck! Now, I’m going to share those chocolates with everyone here…
True, but what I got from Goboy’s paragraph was that gays and straights aren’t really different-in that they’re totally different species. It’s more like, see, I’m NOT so different from you. Hell, some STRAIGHT people are flamboyant. I got from it that what he’s saying is, see, we’re all human! WE all have something in common, and we all are people.
Not that it’s not okay to be different!
This conformity/non-conformity debate has got to be the stupidest issue amongst the gay community.
To some gays I’m a conformist because I have a look that is “normal”. Whatever. I do not feel comfortable wearing dresses nor do I feel comfortable buzzing my hair and dying it blue. I’m a t-shirt, jean wearing, androgynous type of dyke. It’s what I’m comfortable with. People who ask me to be more radical in my appearnce are hypocrits. They are demanding that I conform with their non-conformity. That’s no different than the mainstream trying to assimilate me. I’m a human being, not a political statement.
I’m not addressing anyone here since I know you’re all smart enough to appreciate differences. It’s just a pet peeve that I’ve been needing to vent for a while.
Thanks, Guinistasia, for your accurate precis of my post. that’s what I meant.
Matt, Why on Earth would I disapprove of Sister Sledge? Where would gay men be without our divas?
Thank God - I finally get the recognition I deserve.
I’d like to thank all the little people I’ve slept with…
Esprix
And another thing: not everyone who acts “gay” is.
I worked with this one guy who had VERY feminine mannerisms, the limp wrists, the high, girly voice, the whole works.
But he wasn’t gay. It turns out, his father died when he was only two, and he grew up with just his mom and three sisters. He was the only male in the house.
Go figure.
Why is it wrong to have morals? I believe it is wrong. Sorry if you think that makes me a bigot, but it’s my belief. I don’t hate gays. I have gay friends, we all get along wonderfully. Some of them know my beliefs, and are cool with it. I hate gay bashing. I hate the fact that kids like andygirl and doobieous are under such pressure. I have never contributed to such an atmosphere.
Now, I have these beliefs. They’re mine. I try to live by them. What is wrong with that? I’m not forcing YOU to, so why am I suddenly a bigot?
Saint, tell us why you are morally opposed to homosexuality. Perhaps then we’ll have a better understanding of why you feel the way you do.
Esprix
Uh, when was this? I was just trying to get goboy to realize the position he was seeming to take (for which he has repented) against gay freaks like myself, that’s all. The point was that the queer movement was supposed to let us be weird if we want. Obviously that entails letting you be ordinary if you want.
Why is homosexuality immoral? It’s an orientation, the same as being left-handed. You cannot choose to be gay any mnore than you can choose to be straight.
Ah, yes, the old “Some of my best friends are…” bigot’s defense.
Yes, you have. By stating that homosexuality is immoral, making homosexuals immoral creatures who deserve punsihment.
By not speaking up when someone tells antigay jokes in your presence(Two fags walk into a bar…)
Twll me, why do you think homosexuality is immoral?
I’ve never heard a joke like that. People knew I didn’t like jokes like that, and didn’t tell them around me. Find that hard to believe? Tough.
Oh, and let me clear one more thing up. I have morals. One of them is that I think homosexuality is immoral. That’s my belief. I don’t recall needing YOUR permission to believe anything. I’m sorry you’ve had a rough life, and seem unable to believe that someone can hate a sin, but love people regardless. That is what I’m trying to do in life.
Now, I’m going to set a rule for this. You want to talk about this further with me? Start a pit thread. I will not talk about this here any further. Have a nice day.
So mote it be written, so mote it be done - your Pit thread is here.
C’mon, Sister Mary Ignatious - explain it all for us.
Esprix
Colonel Fitts is too common. I’ve seen plenty of butch, ‘straight’ men decrying homosexuality… and they’ve hit on me too. It’s sad. Were it not for this societal pressure to be heterosexual, there would be a bit less hate in America.
Did anyone notice the irony in American Beauty that the only functioning and healthy couple in the movie was the gay neighbours? You didn’t see them plotting murder, having affairs, or anything else negative. They were happy, polite, and considerate. And they were affectionate with each other. I thought that was refreshing.
The moral issue… I’m sick of Xians and others getting up on their high moral horses and claiming there is something immoral about being gay. Enculturated hatred backed by a selective interpretation of a holy book is a weak person looking for substantiation for their own fears so they can take them out on another. In the movie the Celluloid Closet they pointed out that the problem a lot of people have with homosexuality is that when they think about it, they imagine themselves having gay sex. Their response often is: This disgusts me, because if I did it, I might like it, and I wouldn’t like anyone who did it.
Flaunting. I wasn’t flaunting anything when I got gay bashed in 1997. I was walking home from a business meeting and some high school kids chose to harass me. I decided not to put up with it, fought, and got them some jail time and probation, as well as court ordered therapy for anger management.
So, who gives a rat’s ass if I am gay? I don’t. It’s part of who I am. But too many other people care. Women at times pity me because they think I haven’t met the right girl. Xians pity me because they think I am going to hell.
And the Republican Right likes to disseminate false information that we’re all pedos. What I think is sad about this is that we don’t give a rat’s ass, but society does.
If they didn’t, it wouldn’t be a front page event when someone famous comes out of the closet - of their own free will or not. And there wouldn’t be such denials like Liberace if it wasn’t a persecuted issue in this country.
And the thing about pedophiles is that the majority are STRAIGHT MALES…
sigh
Homophobia IS alive and well, especially here in Topeka Kansas, the home of Fred Phelps. I used to counter-picket against him and believe me it was harder to get people to come out(no pun intended) for these events than for other human rights issues. People thought that if they were a part of such things then others would assume they were gay.
I’m straight, but I had a couple of coworkers that had the sheer, unmitigated gall to ask me about my orientation. What business is it of theirs?
For anyone who thinks that gays are overly sensitive to percieved persecution, I would ask this. Where do you think Phelps and his family/church get all the money to make these trips to picket? It has to come from somewhere and in spite of their numbers I don’t think they make enough . Someone behind the scenes has to be helping, someone who looks just like you or me. I call them “undercover bigots”. It’s scary.
I agree. I myself would probably be considered as trying to “fit in” and be normal. I wear the clothing styles I see on guys around campus (cargo pants/khakis, t-shirts with a button up shirt over left open), because that’s what I like. I dont dye my hair different colors because that’s just not me. I dont have any feminine mannerisms, i dont do drag, wear skirts, or paint my fingernails, or whatever. Why? It’s not because i’m trying to “prove” that I can fit in or that i’m trying my hardest to be as far removed from the stereotypes or “expected” personality, it’s just me being myself.
As I told David yesterday, take me as I am, because i’m not going to change to suit how you think I should be.
Well in my case it’s college (sorry). As odd as that is, being a relatively new school with under 3,000 students, you’re bound to have a higher percentage of bigoted assholes. It doesnt surprise me that much. The area I live is basically a retirement community, and fairly away from any big cities (SF is 2 hrs to the north). While we have a diversity in ethnicities, ignorance is still around. Monterey does have a gay pride parade each year, but still, I am cautious about things. I’d rather be safe than sorry.
Matt, get the chip off your shoulder and take a few moments before you knee jerk. Did you catch the part of my post that said this?
I have experienced pressure in RL from lesbian acquantances to try to be more radical and political in my appearance. Then I read various editorials in gay press about the whole conformist/non-conformist debate (especially around the time of the March On Washington) and it just all seems absurd. I like the idea that there’s room for everyone in the gay movement, and when I see attitudes contrary to that, it’s a major disappointment.