Weird I live in Michigan. I see about a million El Sayed and rodgers commercials every day. I have not seen any commercial mentioning carlson’s affection for El Sayed. From El Sayed or anyone else.
Oh hey, I guess your anecdote means that Huffington Post lied?
You should send a letter to their editor demanding a retraction.
Maybe he took it down?
What would you expect people to say? “Clearly, the timing here was entirely coincidental, and it would be horribly bigoted to suggest otherwise?” Obviously October 7 would not have any way justified or excused such a crime, but it seems unrealistic to insist that there would have been no connection at all.
That it’s a horrible tragedy caused by the bigotry of the perpetrator.
You know, what we all said when that guy stabbed a Wadea al-Fayoume to death in Illinois. We didn’t give four minute speeches explaining the motivation of Joseph Czuba and saying that “well, you know, hurt people hurt people!”.
Complete agreement with Babale:
I’d expect condemnation of the heinous Islamophobic hate crime. Full support for our Islamic brethren. Compassion for the community. There would no place to place the attack in context of something others of the same faith or other group definition did elsewhere in the world. None.
Yes, in the aftermath of the attack you shouldn’t do anything but grieve and offer sympathy and condemn violence. AES made a very insensitive mistake and rightly apologized.
And then in the broader discussion, at another time, it’s entirely reasonable to talk about how US complicity in atrocities abroad can cause blowback that can increase the risk of violence against civilians at home, and this is another reason why the US should not be complicit in atrocities abroad.
I agree that this would be the proper way to respond to such a horrific crime and community tragedy.
However, if the speaker did insensitively make some contextual remarks about different attacks elsewhere targeting the hate-criminal’s own group, and subsequently apologized for them as being inappropriate and out of place within the local community’s current experience of victimization and suffering, I would not immediately and permanently write the speaker off as an Islamophobic bigot.
They said something insensitive and then apologized for it, which is something that a lot of non-bigots have done. It’s also something that a lot of bigots have done before going full mask-off with the bigotry. So I might think the speaker would bear watching in future interactions because they haven’t fully proved their good faith, but I wouldn’t do a one-strike-and-you’re-out rejection.
Reading through that article, HuffPost never says that the ad exists, nor that El-Sayed put out the ad. It just says that Stevens asked El-Sayed to take it down. Given Stevens’ other unhinged demands, I don’t think we can draw any conclusions from that.
I really don’t want to keep belaboring the same points but to respond as a general principle - a statement of “I am sorry” is the first step of an effective apology, which works as the first step if it believed to be sincere. If it is perceived as performative it fails. If that first step is accomplished then you can get to the meat of an apology. Making amends, by subsequent actions. Someone saying they are sorry is really not enough.
Effective apology is possible. They are not automatic with word “sorry.”
@Chronos the ad has been linked to before. No one denies that it exists And that it has been running.
Yeah, right. I’m sure you actually doubt this. But Haley Stevens is the disengenuous one. Yeah, right.
Here you go, I googled it:
Thanks for prompting me to actually watch the ad - it’s worse than I thought. I can see why Tucker Carlson described his campaign as “literally Trumpian”. He includes Tucker Carlson in a group of ‘folks who know a little bit better’.
This is a false quote. It was “folks you know a little bit better”, meaning Fox News audiences might trust Fox News sources more than AES himself.
Just clarifying: AFAICT what we’re talking about here is El-Sayed having apologized for making an insensitive comment back in March by acknowledging a violent terrorist’s personal tragedy and pain while expressing condolences to the terrorist’s suffering and grieving victims.
Was that acknowledgement at that time inappropriate and insensitive? Absolutely. Was it right for El-Sayed to apologize for it? Yes, and long overdue. Should he have known better than to say such a thing, and should he make sure never to say such a thing again? Definitely.
All that said, I really don’t see what additional “meat” of “effective apology” is relevant here, other than, as I noted, never saying that sort of thing again (and I hope to goodness there won’t be another such occasion for condolence remarks in the first place). Needing additional time to ensure that the apologizer won’t in fact say that sort of thing again is what I was referencing by “would bear watching in future interactions”.
Other than that, though, saying you are sorry (for, be it noted, a statement that was not in itself antisemitic or bigoted in any way, just inappropriately empathetic toward a criminal in the context of condoling with the criminal’s victims) actually is enough. When you say something insensitive that isn’t actually exhibiting hatred or bigotry, apologizing for your insensitivity and not making the same insensitive mistake again really is all you need to do.
Some of this El-Sayed stuff really reads a lot like Do you agree with the Seven Actions (which I just made up and only exist in my head), and if not, how can I even support you? type reasoning.
I mean, we already know that.
Haley Stevens endorsed the party of rape and white supremacism. It’s laughable to suggest she’s not disingenuous.
Eh, I guess trying to leave the FoxNews crowd confused enough to at least not vote for the Republican, I can see that. I mean clips of someone supposedly on the other candidate’s own side dragging him down are a longstanding negative-campaign tool. Just that to many of us Carlson is not the kind of person you want making your point even if he’s right.
Not to Abdul El Sayed, obviously. I guess he has a different view of Tucker than you or I do.
…the epitome of “hurt people hurt” would be, for me at least, the Israeli government response to the Hamas atrocities of October the 7th.
And what I don’t understand, and what I will never understand, is that in the three years since Israel began their genocidal campaign in Gaza along with their wider expansionist plans in the Middle East, you’ve said more about Abdul El-Sayed than you have ever said about the “hurt people hurting people” over in Gaza, the West Bank, Southern Lebanon, and Iran.
The state of Israel are responsible for countless atrocities committed over the last few years. There is an arrest warrant out for the Prime Minister of Israel for the war crimes of starvation as a method of warfare and of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population. Israel stands credibly accused of the crime of genocide at the International Court of Justice.
And yet your outrage here is because someone said “hurt people hurt” then apologised for it but that apology wasn’t good enough for you?
People want the atrocities to stop. That’s why Israel is getting called out. That’s why El-Sayed is calling them out. You need to stop pretending otherwise. What hurts Israel is blindly defending it.
In the wake of October 7th, hurt people hurt people. I can understand that. Its entirely factual. But I can’t defend it, just like El-Sayed wasn’t defending the actions of that man that day.
The Lincoln Project has lots of ads showing Republican assholes, including Carlson, disparaging Trump. Babale has never complained about those. But when El Sayed does it, it’s suddenly a problem.
I suspect it’s not actually Carlson that Babale hates.