I get what she was aiming at, but she did phrase it pretty stupidly.
And if I never again had to hear someone opine on what the Founding Fathers believed or wanted (all of them, of course, since they were infallible men who were in total agreement at all times), I’d die a slightly happier man.
Wow, that was really pathetic to call that an “stupid liberal idea” Clothahump.
As I pointed before, the previous system with mostly your job giving you health insurance was a system only a feudal lord would be proud of, the ACA is a good way to prevent job lock and indeed make Americans be more free and more willing to start businesses on their own.
Completely agree. The constant asinine references to the founders (i refuse to say Founding Fathers; it sounds fucking ridiculous) by politicians and talking heads drives me crazy.
The men of the Revolutionary era are, somewhat paradoxically, both highly over-rated and highly under-rated in American political culture.
They’re over-rated because they’re trotted out as justifications for every self-interested claim, often with little or no consideration of the complexity of their ideas or the historical context of their political activities.
And they’re under-rated because some of their most complex and interesting ideas and actions are ignored in favor of rhetorical bullshit. How many of these chumps who trot out the “Founding Fathers” have ever really read and understood the Federalist papers, or the writings of the anti-Federalists? How many of them are familiar with Notes on the State of Virginia? How many are familiar with the political philosophy of George Washington’s Sixth Annual Message, in the wake of the Whiskey Rebellion, or of his Farewell Address, dealing with the problems of faction?
They should just shut the fuck up about them.
And silenus, i get your point about promoting the general welfare. I’m a supporter of Obamacare, i think it does promote the general welfare, and my main complaint is that it didn’t go far enough. I would have far preferred a social-democratic single-payer system.
But come on, how many of the signers of the Declaration, and how many of those who met in Philadelphia to draft the Constitution, really would have supported the idea of government-mandated health coverage? These folks had a very different conception of what the welfare of the nation was, and how it might best be promoted, than we do. Hell, even in the immediate aftermath of the ratification of the Constitution, they couldn’t agree among themselves about whether America should be a nation of yeoman farmers with a weak federal government, or a tariff-protected manufacturing center with a strong federal government.
None of this is to suggest that we need follow their lead. Quite the opposite. Much as i respect Thomas Jefferson’s intellect, i don’t hold his low opinion of cities, and i don’t believe that the strength and the virtue of a nation is primarily to be found among independent farmers working their own land.
But we need to be careful about making stupid, simplistic invocations of the founders in order to score rhetorical points in a modern political debate.
Awkwardly, certainly, but not stupidly. She had a very valid point - that ACA advances the principles of life, liberty, and the purfuit of happineff.
Not needed. Leeches and mud were freely available, without prescription.
“Remarkable! In your future age, there exists a universal system of physic for all white male landowners!”
“Yeah… uh, about that…”
I’m skimming this at work so pardon if it has been mentioned.
Mostly True.
Well, as I understand the Founders actually were pretty ok with a sizeable portion of the population to be job-locked. Job-padlocked, even.
Somebody email Humpy that article, then stand back. His head might explode.
Every time. Do you? Did you even bother to read this statement that she made, speaking of what the founding fathers wanted:
Do you agree with her that Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin et al. wanted portable health care policies?
I heard that phrase many, many times - always from ignorant liberals who think the federal government should provide welfare to everyone.
Have you even bothered to read anything that the founding fathers wrote? Ever? I’m assuming you haven’t, or you would have known that the founding fathers never even considered that “promote the general welfare” meant writing welfare checks of any kind. Madison said it best:
But that’s all right, Silenus. Rant and rave on, bro, because every time you post an ad hominem response to me, you’re simply admitting that I was right; it pisses you off; and you have nothing left to do but call me names because you can’t refute what I said.
ROTFLMAO!!! That was friggin’ hilarious.
No, but I’m in serious danger of busting a gut laughing at all of you.
Madison didn’t write that. It is from the Annals of Congress, House of Representatives, 3rd Congress, 1st Session, page 170.The *Annals *summarize speeches in the third person, and as such do not represent direct quotes.
Swing and a miss.
I hope your insurance will cover that.
Not as badly as they wanted semi-automatic firearms with high-capacity magazines in every tavern, church and grammar school, I’ll admit.
Yeah, too funny.
http://www.stlamerican.com/business/local_business/article_7b802564-f49c-11e2-b3fc-001a4bcf887a.html
Either your mind has turned silly thanks to all the right wing propaganda that you are swallowing, or it was thanks to many boots to the head from your Karate class. 
None of them; but Thomas Paine would have.
Clothy, you’re delusional. Honestly, the things you believe are simply not true. You’re twisted in anger and hate because you believe things are happening that simply aren’t.
It’s pathetic. You deserve to have a better life.