Stupid Republican idea of the day

[kaylasdad99]

@foolsguinea

Yeah, somehow that became the standard line. The fact that ATF is now apparently supplying weapons to mobsters in hopes they will be used in crime isn’t enough for the GOP, they have to make it about a commie plot to disarm law-abiding Iowa farmers. :rolleyes:

Didn’t Pierce Brosnan make a movie about this kind of thing in the '80s? Except it was a plot to get the USA to take the blame for an “accidental” nuclear explosion so we’d go for unilateral nuclear disarmament, or something.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Didn’t F&F begin under Bush anyway?

[MOIDALIZE]

@BigAppleBucky

And here is Rachel Maddow explaining its origin. Totally batshit craziness. A wingnut blogger, who ranted about smashing windows at Democratic Party offices (“Break their windows militia guy”) back in March 2010, started calling Fast and Furious a conspiracy to end the 2nd amendment. The funny thing is, inside the conservative crazy-bubble, he is totally credible.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#47898261

Yep, a staunchly patriotic Amurrican, who sits on his fat ass collecting SSD and rails against oppressive government.

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Didn’t F&F begin under Bush anyway?

Yep.

[Sinaptics]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Didn’t F&F begin under Bush anyway?

Not only did it, but Issa actually voted for it.

[elucidator]

As Eugene V. Debs is my witness, when I first got a hint of this “confiscation” angle, I thought to myself “OK, now the MSNBC guys have gone a bit far, this is too weird, they’re not that fucking crazy!” Really did.

[Buck_Godot]

Could it be that what they really were thinking of was in fact to use this walking of guns in order to promote an assault weapons ban. Many think so. And they haven’t come up with an explanation that would cause any of us not to agree…

Or in other words, you can’t prove that wasn’t any thermite in place at the world trade center on 9/11.

[xenophon41]

@Sinaptics

Not only did it, but Issa actually voted for it.

Sinaptics, could you expand on this? I thought Fast & Furious, like its Bush era precursor Wide Receiver, was an ATF operation; are you saying the legislative Oversight Committee had prior approval of these executive branch* schemes?

*ATF is a Dept. of Justice bureau.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Sinaptics

Not only did it, but Issa actually voted for it.

Seriously? :smack::mad:

[Sinaptics]

@xenophon41

Sinaptics, could you expand on this? I thought Fast & Furious, like its Bush era precursor Wide Receiver, was an ATF operation; are you saying the legislative Oversight Committee had prior approval of these executive branch* schemes?
*ATF is a Dept. of Justice bureau.

I got my information from a KOS page, which I hate linking to, but it’s properly sourced, and I’d be a bit of pain to piece it all together again here, so here’s you go:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/21/1101851/-2008-Darrell-Issa-Voted-YES-to-Fund-Project-Gunrunner-Merida-Initiative

[elucidator]

I hear you, Sinaptics, I also was reluctant to link to Kos, then I realized I had been had. I asked myself when did they lie to me, when did they steer me wrong? I let myself be conned by the whole “non-partisan” shtick, as if to be partisan was to be stupid by definition.

Mostly, what I’ve done is link directly to their link, which is always there. That way, no one suspects me of being a lefty partisan! Cunning rascal that I am…

[Ravenman]

I just took a quick look at the bill, and I think the linked article is way overplaying its hand.

The relevant bit of law seems to be this:

(b) Project Gunrunner Initiative-

    (1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall, to the extent amounts are made available to carry out this subsection pursuant to paragraph (4), use such amounts for the Project Gunrunner initiative (hereafter in this subsection referred to as the `initiative') of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to expand the resources provided to identify, investigate, and prosecute individuals involved in the trafficking of firearms across the United States-Mexico border.

    (2) ACTIVITIES- In carrying out paragraph (1), the Attorney General shall--

        (A) assign additional agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to the area of the United States adjacent to the United States-Mexico border to support the expansion of the initiative;

        (B) establish not fewer than 1 initiative team in each State along the United States-Mexico border; and

        (C) coordinate with the heads of other relevant federal law enforcement agencies and State and local law enforcement agencies to address firearms trafficking in a comprehensive manner.

One can see in hindsight how the gunwalking program might flow from this authority, but it is hard to derive specific support for gunwalking from that provision.

It’s like supposing that fraud was uncovered in a defense program. Before that, Congressman A voted for the program, therefore he must have approved of the fraud. I don’t think that’s a reasonable conclusion.

[Sinaptics]

@elucidator

I hear you, Sinaptics, I also was reluctant to link to Kos, then I realized I had been had. I asked myself when did they lie to me, when did they steer me wrong? I let myself be conned by the whole “non-partisan” shtick, as if to be partisan was to be stupid by definition.

Mostly, what I’ve done is link directly to their link, which is always there. That way, no one suspects me of being a lefty partisan! Cunning rascal that I am…

Well, I’m not terribly happy with the commentary of the articles, but the articles themselves are good.

And I know that if someone were to link to the free republic, I’d think twice about going there. So I try to afford the same consideration.

I’ll often search for different sources, but this particular article contain a bunch of different links, and bah, was just too much work to recreate.

[Sinaptics]

@Ravenman

I just took a quick look at the bill, and I think the linked article is way overplaying its hand.

The relevant bit of law seems to be this: One can see in hindsight how the gunwalking program might flow from this authority, but it is hard to derive specific support for gunwalking from that provision.

It’s like supposing that fraud was uncovered in a defense program. Before that, Congressman A voted for the program, therefore he must have approved of the fraud. I don’t think that’s a reasonable conclusion.

There was also a congressional briefing on the program. Still, that said, it’s hard to know exactly what Issa knew at the time. He could also just be pissed at how poorly it was administered, though the stuff about using it as an excuse for an assault weapons ban is still crazy.

I’m inclined to not take him too hard to task for it at this point, but I think it deserves an explanation from him as to why he voted for it, especially if he didn’t know what it was about.

And if it turns out it was something other than what he was briefed on, then he deserves to be pissed (crazy part not included).

[Sinaptics]

In a new poll by Dartmouth,

62.9% of Republicans believe that there were WMD in Iraq.
55.6% of Republicans believe, and have always believed, Obama was born in a foreign country.
8% of Republicans used to think he was born in US, but now believe he was born in a foreign country.
A combined 21.9% have always believed, or have come to believe he was born in the US. (19.1% & 2.8% respectively)

Honestly, I’m most troubled by the 2.8%. You’d have figured more would have come around once the long form certificate was released. Guess you can’t fix stupid.

[elucidator]

And this just in, from our good friends at Talking Points Memo:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/report_issa_staffer_offered_to_stop_holder_contempt_vote_for_doj_scalp.php?ref=fpa

Report: Issa Staffer Offered To Stop Holder Contempt Vote For DOJ Scalp

Rep. Darrell Issa’s chief investigative counsel offered to stop the contempt vote against Attorney General Eric Holder in exchange for the resignation of Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, Newsweek’s Dan Klaidman is reporting.

Issa staffer Stephen Castor brought up the issue of “accountability” during a phone call with a senior DOJ official last week, according to the report. Castor reportedly said they could head off the contempt vote if Breuer stepped down…BIG SNIP, leaving out lots of stuff, to the punch line…

“The reason that this contempt motion happened is that Issa didn’t come up with any evidence and didn’t get a scalp,” Matthew Miller, DOJ’s former communications director, told Klaidman. “When you set expectations that high and you don’t deliver, you have to explain why.”

[Fear_Itself]

Mitt Romney supports a path to legal status for undocumented aliens who serve in the military:

“As President, I will stand for a path to legal status for anyone who is willing to stand up and defend this great nation through military service,” Romney said. “Those who have risked their lives in defense of America have earned the right to make their life in America.”

The only problem is, that is a mutually exclusive group, as illegal aliens find itimpossible to enlistbecause they are undocumented. Willard is promising something he knows he will never have to deliver on. Way to go out on a limb, Mitt.

[xenophon41]

@Sinaptics

I’m inclined to not take [Issa] too hard to task for [voting for Project Gunrunner] at this point, but I think it deserves an explanation from him as to why he voted for it, especially if he didn’t know what it was about.

And if it turns out it was something other than what he was briefed on, then he deserves to be pissed (crazy part not included).

(ed. for clarity)

I think you and Ravenman ( here ) have it right between the two of you. The DK article overreaches more than a bit, and the author seems to conflate “Project Gunrunner” with the concept of “gun walking”, which doesn’t seem to have been mentioned or authorized in the specific legislation. Indeed, the stated goals of the initiative were to reduce the flow of guns from the US into Mexico through manpower increases within ATF and better information sharing with Mexican authorities.

The main screwup with the law seems to have been the lack of Congressional oversight which (one could argue) allowed the poorly conceived and executed gun walking idea to be implemented by the Phoenix ATF division under the auspices of the approved project. (The Kos article doesn’t indicate whether Issa voted for the oversight provision in 2009.)
I fully agree that the F&F investigation and the contempt charge against Holder are pure political show and that Issa (and anyone else who spreads the loony 2nd amendment CT) is a twit.

[elucidator]

…as illegal aliens find it impossible to enlist because they are undocumented. Willard is promising something he knows he will never have to deliver on. Way to go out on a limb, Mitt.

Well, yeah, but if they do manage to find a way to sneak in, then they can apply, presuming that they have an honorable discharge after their courts martial.

But its not all dark! Their military training may be highly useful in their new surroundings, the Sinaloa Cartel is looking for a few good men. Well, bad ones, actually, but still…

[Kimstu]

@Fear_Itself

Mitt Romney supports a path to legal status for undocumented aliens who serve in the military:The only problem is, that is a mutually exclusive group, as illegal aliens find itimpossible to enlistbecause they are undocumented. Willard is promising something he knows he will never have to deliver on. Way to go out on a limb, Mitt.

@elucidator

Well, yeah, but if they do manage to find a way to sneak in, then they can apply, presuming that they have an honorable discharge after their courts martial.

To be fair, though, you guys are overlooking the fact that this part of Romney’s proposal is functionally equivalent to what currently exists (as of June 15) under Obama’s executive order deferring deportation for individuals who meet certain criteria including US military service:

Under the new policy, people younger than 30 who came to the United States before the age of 16, pose no criminal or security threat, and were successful students or served in the military can get a two-year deferral from deportation, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said.

Romney is simply proposing to extend that approach by giving servicemembers not just deportation deferral but a path to citizenship (an idea which the legislature has been batting around in various guises ever since the 2001 DREAM Act). I imagine Obama’s policy is ultimately headed in that direction too.

I have very little good to say about Mitt Romney, but it’s no stupider for a Republican to promise benefits to undocumented immigrants who serve in the military than it is for a Democrat to do so. Neither one of them is really addressing the issue of how an undocumented immigrant would manage to enlist in the first place.

The military does accept recruits who are noncitizen permanent residents, and in recent years has started actively recruiting temporary immigrants with desirable skillsets. But AFAIK they never knowingly permit the enlistment of someone who’s currently in the country illegally.

[user_hostile]

“Wes Riddle, a Republican tea party activist locked in a run-off with fellow GOPer Roger Williams in Texas’ 25th congressional district”

(Note: I’ve reshuffled the order of the paragraphs to provide a little more clarity)

Riddle, a retired Army officer from Gatesville, wants to impeach Obama for “giving away” seven Arctic Ocean and Bering Sea islands near Siberia to Russia.
(Yes, even though those islands were ceded in 1991 under President George H.W. Bush.)

Riddle has promised to begin the impeachment process against President Obama the day he enters Congress — seemingly implying that he believes Obama will be reelected — because of a boundary treaty that was ratified by the Senate in 1991. Obama was 30 years old at the time and just finishing up law school.

Thislink explains Riddle’s latest Turing Test on the primary voters of the TX 25th.