Because it’s fucking stupid and no one except a very small select group of people use it.
I empathize with your feelings about the name change. My situation was/is totally different, but it bothered/bothers me far more than I could have expected.
My then-husband and I agreed that our son would have my last name. (I didn’t change my name when we married.) A year or so after we divorced, the ex informed me that he wanted our son to have his last name as well, and was going to court to have the his name changed include both his last name and mine, hyphenated. I did not want this to happen, and my son didn’t want it to happen, but I knew that if I tried to fight it in court, I would almost certainly lose. So my son had his last name changed against my will, and it bothered me tremendously. I’m used to it by now, but it still bugs me.
Why does the name thing bother us so much? I really don’t know. Names are important, and maybe the change hits us deeply because we see the change as symbolic of something or another? Who knows, but just know that your feelings are totally normal. Go ahead and grieve.
Oh, and even if you insist that she doesn’t correct you when you use her birth name, please do use her chosen name when you introduce her to others.
By the way, I tried to use “they” in that sentence, but got caught up with wondering whether to say “they doesn’t correct you” or “they don’t correct you.” I’d totally encourage her to can the whole “they” thing. As both you and she are aware, her status will make people somewhat uncomfortable even if they have the best of intentions, but putting people in a position where they don’t know how to talk will add a significant extra layer of discomfort. I’ll cheerfully consider someone whatever gender they say they are, including “none of the above,” but I know I’d end up avoiding someone who tried to make me say “zir” or whatever, even if I didn’t mean to avoid them.
Props and hugs to you, awesome mom, and the same to your awesome kid!
I have thought about the introduction issue, and would definitely introduce her by her new name. That’s the way I see her name coming into common use for her…as she makes new friends and her world gets larger, more and more people will know her by her chosen name. And I think that she will be accepting when I slip and use her birth name or her middle name or whatever.
Maybe time will allow her to see what a PITA the use of “they” is for everyone and she may decide to back off on that one a bit. Even here, when people use “they” out of respect for her wishes, I get confused reading those responses. And it’s very confusing to use it in speech. I have two teenagers very close in age, and if I am talking about her and then use “they” I have to explain over and over that no, I don’t mean the two of them are going to the concert. sigh
I have heard the use of ze, zer, zim; I don’t think it’s stupid, but again…it’s cumbersome and awkward.
Green Bean, if it helps, all of my kids have hyphenated last names. When the older two became adults, they both chose to use just one of their names. My guess is, when your kiddo grows up, he may very well do the same and choose your name. I figure it’s nice for them to have the option. I’m amazed at how powerfully emotional the subject of names can be, though!
I’ve gotten some wonderful private messages as well as the great info and support on this thread. I waited for a long time to post because I just didn’t know how it would go over. Now I’ve very glad that I did.
On that note, when I was in high school, I would say about one in five of my friends made some radical name change, and another several people in college did. Most of them dropped it when the name was something completely unrelated to their given name. The only ones who stuck with it were people who chose a less childish shortened version of their given name (like a Betsy who decided to be Beth, or a Johnny who decided to be Jack), and people who decided to use their middle names. People who wanted to be called something like “Raven,” even if they successfully got people to call them that, dropped it in their mid-20s.
So, your daughter may change her name back-- or change it again, or decide to use her middle name. She is only 13. Nothing is set in stone (but don’t tell her I said this).
And I can’t bring myself to use the plural either. I could manage “it,” because I’m old enough to remember when it was acceptable to call a baby or toddler of uncertain gender “it,” without anyone getting upset. Now people get upset if you call their dogs “it.” But anyway, it’s the matching verb that trips me up as well.
Also, it’s somehow vaguely suggestive of the royal “we.”
I know it’s none of my business, and maybe this is something she needs to learn on her own-- in other words, it just won’t happen no matter how much she reminds people, and your job here is simply going to be to comfort her when she gets upset about it, but maybe you want to think about trying to head off the upset by telling her there are some things she can’t impose on other people. Honestly, I’m not sure what I’d do.
Yeah, we’ve had this conversation several times: You can ASK people to do things; you can’t MAKE them do things. (This general topic has been a big one in her therapy, as well; not because she is bossy but because she wants to help and fix everyone). And you certainly can’t control anyone else’s language, especially if you aren’t around (as you generally will not be there if they refer to you as “she” instead of “they”). There really is a control issue that she has to be aware of, because it will be an issue eventually. My main concern–and I’ve talked to her about this as well–is that she not use this whole issue as sort of a line in the sand that she uses to push people away because she misinterprets their (possibly forgetful, at least understandable) lack of compliance as disrespect for her wishes. No one has to comply with our wishes. People will generally do what is easy, and while it’s fairly easy to respect her wishes re: the name, it is not quite as easy (or may be downright impossible) to do the same with the pronoun. So I expect that people will use her name more consistently than her chosen pronoun, and she will have to deal with that as healthily as possible.
As I type this she is sitting with her brother binge-watching crime dramas on Netflix. And wearing a lacy knit dress. Go figure. 
Wait, if the son was against having his own name changed, why did it go through? I would hope that if the child is old enough to be able to formulate a desire in regards to the question, they should get to decide. Certainly not one parent unilaterally.
If it helps your grammar-brain any, papergirl, “they” has been used as a singular pronoun for a person of unspecified gender for centuries. There’s a decent overview at Wikipedia, of all places. Shakespeare uses it! Your grammar-brain isn’t going to argue with Shakespeare, right? 
As for the mechanics of it, singular “they” continues to take the conjugations of plural “they”, so it’s “they are” rather than “they is”, which is often the sticking point. “Somebody left their book here. They’re going to be sorry when they realize they don’t have it.” The process is similar to the one that took place when “thou” fell out of favor, and the previously formal/plural “you” began to serve as the informal and singular second-person pronoun as well.
I run in circles that are almost hyperaware of gender and sexuality issues sometimes, and I know a couple of "they"s. You get used to it after a while. It sounds like the kiddo appreciates the effort you’re making, and it’ll all probably work out fine, however that eventually is.
“It” is a perfectly good gender-neutral word in the English language for a lot of things, including humans of indeterminate sex up to a certain age. “They” is gender neutral in that it can apply to either, but PLURAL.
What the hell is up with this “call me ‘they’” thing anyway?
I realize that “it” has been used as a pejorative for some transsexuals and they (as a group) don’t like it, but on the other hand if this is going to become a common thing, and judging from this board it is, we should reprocess the perfectly good and understandable word that already exists. We’ve already put up with all this “he or she” awkwardness in our quest. If we can get used to “they” (which works in some situations and is also awkward in others) we can get used to “it.”
Also is she still going to let you call her your daughter? Or do you have to invent some other word for that, too?
There is this convenient word “child”…
Or “offspring” or “progeny.”
The issue of breast binding and her desire to engage in the practice leads me to wonder: how is she handling the menstration issue (both physically and emotionally if that’s not prying too much)?
In addition to what papergirl said about her daughter wanting to appear more androgynous, I’d wager that, at age 13, she is just beginning to get a great deal of unwanted attention from boys, and telling them she’s a lesbian hasn’t done a thing to diminish their interest. Presenting as less appealing might work.
papergirl, how are your other kids handling all this?
I think you’re doing an amazing job. I can’t imagine a more supportive way to handle things.
Now that somebody has referred to them as requested, I have to admit that it looks darned weird.
I wonder if people with multiple personality disorder ever ask to be referred to as “they”. Because that would make sense.
I believe the personalities present one at a time. They don’t all gang up like a sorority.
I hope it’s not too confusing if I don’t use multiple quotes; my keyboard is wonky so it’s frustrating sometimes.
So: Arabella Flynn, that is interesting and it does help in some small way. I don’t know that the use of “they” is going to happen for me anytime soon, but it’s still some good background to know.
Hilarity N. Suze, I’m still referring to her as my daughter. It hasn’t been an issue thus far, and I don’t feel the need to explore it at this point. I have enough to wrap my brain around.
kaylasdad99, I actually do refer to her (and the other kids) as my progeny sometimes. I used to see this old man every day and every now and then he’d bellow at me, “Where’s the progeny?” and it stuck. As far as her periods go, she accepts them as much as any young woman would…they suck, she hates the cramps, etc, but shrugs her shoulders and goes on. In spite of the interest in binding, I do think it’s more an interest and a style issue than an outright rejection of being a female.
Ethilrist has some good input, I think, regarding the wish to look more androgynous. She has a very mature figure and looks maybe 19 or 20 instead of 13. Boys and men notice her, and she does NOT welcome that interest at all. That may play into all of this. It’ll be a good issue to explore with her therapist when we see her again, I think.
She has 3 brothers, ages 15, 24, and 29. The older boys have always been very supportive of her. Overall, they’re a really open-minded and good-hearted bunch of kids. Her 15 year old brother has been active in GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance) in high school even before she came out as a lesbian, and I truly couldn’t ask for a better supporter for her; he is absolutely fierce about it. Her 24 year old brother spent a year or so in high school identifying as bisexual, so he’s very understanding and empathetic.
Her dad, unfortunately, isn’t quite so supportive. At first he made jokes and laughed about it, but when he wasn’t able to bug her into giving in, he pulled the “you’ll always be my baby girl and I’ll never call you by any other name” bit. I’m trying to help her understand that he may have issues he can’t explain to her, and urging her to be patient, and she’s trying, but she feels rejected by his insistence, I think.
At the end of the day, I keep in mind: I have great kids. I try never to lose sight of that.
Ok, I have to ask.
I get that you all are being supportive and all but what if…?
What if the kid comes in with a demand and you just say … no.
And you just say “no, here is the name I gave you and I will use it. You are a girl and I will refer to you as such not an “it” or “they” or whatever. We are your parents, we love you, but we are tired of your dramas and you dont get to make the rules. If you want to leave the house when your 18 and go out on your own - fine. Call yourself whatever you want but we are not going to play anymore of your games”.
Dont say “no” (notice I have no caps) in a mean way. Just say it firmly but with respect. And when they say “why?” you dont have to explain either. “Because I said so”.
Yeah sure you will get screaming, yelling, slamming doors, etc… but you would get the same if you make them do homework or take away their phone.
I mean, your the adult in the house right? What gives them the right to tell you how to talk to them? You the parent needs to be in control.
And btw, nearly every 13 year old girl and boy out there has some type of issue.
Awww parenting.
<- dad of transgender daughter. She’s 20, currently estranged insofar as I can see no action or move on my part to help, or ameliorate, or aid will change this in any way. She stayed with us at home post orchidectomy until what I can only refer to as the event in late October this year.
The event started with an inadvertent misgendering by my wife (could have easily have been me) and ended with suicidal threats, and a physical assault by her on me. Like I could raise a hand against her (o.0)
We have heard nothing from her to date, she was admitted to inpatient psych at a psych/behavioral hospital the morning after the event. HIPPA constraints and my reluctance to visit her apartment may be giving her faux-justice for her perceived sleights, I can only hope she recognizes how much of my own is tied up in her happiness and safety.
Hello papergirl.
I am a father of a 16 year old girl (born a boy), and I can fully understand your needs to discuss this, and the turmoil you are in. The journey is not easy, and I sometimes struggle to keep my head up while at work or even in private settings. I am fully supportive of my child, however I can’t claim to GET the issue. That being said, it is not a situation that I am expecting to fully grasp with during the course of my lifetime, and instead I am focusing on finding as much information as I can and spending my energy on supporting my child.
Who am I then? A somewhat normal individual, a European that enjoy the art of bbqing and actually like american football. Just a person, really, but one that walks the same road that you do, even though I am on another continent.
I actually ended up in this forum due to a link on another topic from google, and ended up in this thread while stumbling around here. Seeing this topic I just had to register, and although I do not have any good answers I feel that I could at least lend an ear from a parent that are going through the same thing. From one human to another.
This topic seems to come up a fair amount, in this thread as well as in the general assumptions people seem to make about single parents or maybe about teenagers as a whole. So I hope I don’t come off as pissy; it’s really not directed at you.
I’ve tried to be really clear about some of the concerns you mention and perhaps it’s just not coming through. My children don’t make demands of me, because that’s not how things work in my household. My daughter isn’t creating drama just for the fun of being a drama queen or for attention or because she is a brat or a special snowflake or whatever. This sort of thing keeps being hinted at or mentioned and you will just need to trust (or not, I guess–it is the internet after all) that I’m being honest when I tell you that isn’t the case. Labeling it as misbehavior on her part minimizes my daughter’s experience; labeling it as some sort of parenting fail on my part minimizes mine.
I’ve been a single mom for a very long time and I’m highly skilled in the art of the Unequivocal No. I have zero remorse or guilt when I say no, because when I do, I do so for good reason which I may or may not feel inclined to explain to the kid in question. If anyone ever has any doubt at all about who is in charge in my home, you need not ask me–you can ask my kids.
As I explained upthread, I’m not using “they”–she would like for me to, but at this point I’m not. Also upthread, I’ve talked to her (extensively, believe me!) about how you can ask, but you can’t demand, that other people behave a certain way with regard to their language.
Not in my house, I won’t. I love and respect my kids but in spite of how supportive and loving I may be, we don’t do screaming, yelling, or slamming doors. I don’t have to take away their phones…they don’t have them to begin with. 
My kids are bright, sweet, creative, and they may be trailblazers in their own ways, but they are some of the best-behaved kids I’ve ever been around. Including this daughter of mine, forever dancing to her own music.
Peter Doubt, I’m so sorry for the trauma you must be enduring. What a huge event to deal with for all of you. I wish you and your family time and patience to heal and be able to come back together when things settle down. It’s so hard on parents to see their kids unhappy–I’ve watched my oldest (29) go through a divorce, custody battle, etc, and it was just heartbreaking. I will keep you all in my thoughts.
Haven’t been on a college campus lately, have you?
Singular gender-neutral they for non-cis people is a very common usage on college campuses. Most colleges will not only not laugh in her face, they’re likely to be downright supportive.