FYI: Jeff Probst blogs about ‘Survivor’ finale: ‘Nobody outplayed Russell’
I hate it when I agree with Probst…
By the way, I’m going to have to see the Eric-blindside episode again to make sure that (1) Natalie was the one who had the idea to vote him off (2) If they didn’t vote Eric out, a Foa Foa member would have been voted out that day (I seem to recall that someone else from Galu was in the crosshairs that day?)
Because if the above two don’t hold, Natalie’s move can’t be classified as a great move in the game.
Having said that, even if the above two hold, making one big move does not stop someone from being a coattail rider if for the rest of the game they were following in the shadow of other players.
I think it’s good that Russell was “punished” for his arrogance and lack of effort to get to know and befriend the Galus (like Natalie did), and it really does take away from his overall gameplay (since the ultimate Survivor player would have that part figured out as well), but I just wish it was someone more deserving than Natalie.
(Having said that, in this particular season, there really is no one I can think of who is more deserving than Natalie, if we exclude Russell. Maybe Laura? Definitely not Jaison or Mick)
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Jaison was the one who suggested it after Erik came and condescendingly told the Foa’s how the tribal was going to go. Natalie was the one who actually put the plan into motion by talking to the women.
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That whole episode was so crazy that it was hard to tell what any of the plans were. I believe Erik and Sham voted for Jaison. But Erik’s plan was to get enough people together to vote out Monica and he voted for Jaison as a backup plan.
Here is the sequence of events, from Wikipedia
So, (1) It was not Natalie’s idea to vote out Eric, it was Jaison’s and (2) Monica, a Galu, would have been voted off if Natalie had not stirred the pot.
So, voting off Eric was not “the big move” by Natalie as people have been portraying it.
(Had Monica been voted off instead of Eric, it’s not clear how this would have been so much more worse for Foa Foa versus voting off Eric)
It was Jaison’s idea. Jaison, the guy who had jack-all to do with getting the Galu’s to go with that plan. I don’t see why this disqualifies Natalie from some props – she got the ball rolling with her story about Erik gunning for Laura getting the Galu girls to go along.
Agree.
I’m wondering if they actually made it harder by voting out Erik. Once Galu got rid of Erik, they stuck together. If Monica went, I think there would be a lot more dissension in the ranks and they would turn on each other.
If the jury voted “against Russell” rather than “for Natalie”, as Probst puts it, how come Mick didn’t get any votes?
Sorry, I don’t buy it. I think there’s sexism at play here. There’s no way Natalie could have ever played like Russell, she would have been gone immediately - and she understood that. Females generally have to play a bit lower key if they want to win (I think the Guatemala final of Danni vs. Steph final is the best example of that). Natalie did everything she could do - physically, strategically, and socially - to position herself to win. Russell was reckless and made huge errors in judgment. To me, that’s it.
No, he’s not. See, what you have to do is scheme and plot your way to the Finals without pissing off a majority of the jury. Russell- the lying egomaniac asshole- failed that. Without pissing off a majority of the jury is a critical part of the strategy, one that Russell completely failed at.
And his “strategies?” Pouring out water,letting chickens escape and burning socks? He had one lucky minute when Galu went stupid, and his one brilliant idea was to look for idols before any clues. That was damn clever, I’ll give him that.
I thought there was far too much RUSSELL on this season, anyway.
So, in that case, you must believe that JT is the greatest Survivor player ever, right?
Well, he’s certainly one of the best.
Russel is an arrogant asshole. I’m glad he didn’t win. He sat there on the final day gloating and taunting Natalie. He’s an insufferable dickwad.
Absolutely, yes. IMO, JT was a far better player than Russell. For one, he was much, much stronger in competitions. Pre-merge, Russell was torpedoing his own tribe in camp and didn’t do squat to help them win during challenges, while JT was a galvanizing force leading his tribe to victories. (Though both players went into the merge down on numbers, 8:4 and 6:4.) Post-merge, Russell won only one immunity challenge, while JT won multiple challenges, including the last three immunity challenges of the season to guarantee his own spot in the finals. Last three > last one.
Competitions are of course only one part of the game. The other is social, which JT owned while Russell completely shit the bed. JT won the million by unanimous friggin’ vote, and I don’t recall anyone outside his alliance being pissed at him for anything. Russell wasn’t just hated by his opponents, his own core alliance didn’t like him either.
Grudging respect of a guy you hate is nothing compared to total respect of a guy you like. JT was head and shoulders above Russell.
Sorry, but Natalie, by definition, outplayed Russel. The object of the game is to get the jury to vote for you. Russel didn’t do that, or whatever reason(s).
And it’s a very different thing for the audience to want someone to win and for the players (esp those on the jury) to want someone to win. The latter group has a different experience to draw from.
I would also like to point out that there were several episodes when Russell had a very specific target in mind, and then had to switch up to vote with the group instead of being able to convince the group to vote the way he wanted. Since Natalie has been dinged for going with the group, I thought this was worth pointing out.
Also, just to clarify my previous post, I meant to say “absolutely yes” to JT being better a better player than Russell. I see in re-reading that I wrote it in reply to asking if JT is the best player ever. He may be, but I’m nowhere near confident enough to say absolutely yes to that. Just that he was better than Russell. (And by a wide margin.)
I disagree that, by definition, getting the votes means you outplayed someone.
As I mentioned in previous posts, the jury can give you the votes for any number of capricious reasons (e.g. something as arbitrary as “you have big tits”, as someone humorously mentioned upthread). Getting the most votes does not always mean that you outplayed someone.
(In the specific case of Natalie vs Russell, one can make the argument that she outplayed him because of the social game she played, but the blanket statement that whenever anybody gets more votes from the jury it makes them the better player by definition, is wrong)
I’ve read some blogs that have interviewed some of the jurors and they all say that Russel was a bigger douchebag than even the show seemed to indicate. He sealed his fate long before the finale.
I agree that it was a vote against Russel rather than a vote for Natalie, but that was Russel’s own damn fault.
Can you provide us a link so we can read those blogs?
Jaison, Mick, and Brett say Russell couldn’t win; he was “too blatantly arrogant and mean-spirited”
Here’s one. I can’t find the ones I read yesterday.
The object of the game is to outplay, etc. the others. The object of the game is to win the million dollars (get the jury vote). A=B, C=B, A=C.
Re: Russell finding the Hidden Immunity Idols
I think Sunday’s nights episode implicitly showed clearly why Russell was able to find HIIs while the others did not. The morning after Shambo was voted out, Russell was “out and about.” The other survivors were in the shelter sleeping. I have no doubt that was a typical morning in camp. Russell was not one to be lying around camp doing nothing. he was out doing something, looking for food, looking for immunity idols.
I don’t think Russell spent as much time sleeping in the shelter, catching rays at the beach and generally doing nothing. he was pro-active rather than reactive.
That said, he could have done better cultivating relationships. I have no doubt that he was not as obtuse and condescending as he was in his confessionals, but I don’t think he was able to totally shut down those opinions.
As I read in either in this thread (or in TWOP), Mick and Natalie should have said how Russell was counting the votes and his money all day at camp. Of course, it didn’t matter, and I was sure that natalie was going to win.