Sweetie, I love you but your daughter scares me.

In My Humble Opinion
41

I understand what some of you have said about being involved again so soon after my separation and impending divorce. I go back and forth on this. In some ways, my marriage was so non-functional for its last two years, it has been long enough. In other ways, especially the legal ones, it’s still an ongoing issue.

I can play both sides of the argument, I can appreciate both views. It is what it is now, though, and that’s what I’m working with. We’re both trying to take it slow. Take our time - knowing that we’ve both got baggage to integrate.

We talked again last night about my fears of her daughter’s influence on my kids. We came together to about the same idea of my comments above. Just take it slow, take it carefully, take our time. Don’t make a decision today.

She thinks her daughter will eventually realize the errors of her way. I told her that if it gets to the point in our relationship where we’re discussing cohabitating, and her daughter is still a problem, then it’s simply going to have to be that we continue to have separate households. My children are going to have to come first on that.

So my GF returned from her trip, Vickie was brought by her older sister’s boyfriend to to the airport. My GF greeted her with a, “Happy Birthday, it’s good to see you.” Vickie replied, “What did you buy me for my birthday.” That kind of set the tone, I guess, of this reunion.

Vickie thought she would return with her sister to her apartment, where she’s been staying since the police picked her up. The older sister more or less said, “Hell, No. You party too much and are too much trouble.” Vickie went on to claim that she hadn’t had a drop to drink all summer and hadn’t been partying at all. Her sister reminder her that she’d be arrested at a party for underage drinking.

This is the kind of stupid lies that Vickie insists on telling. Obvious, easily provable as false, and yet she persists on continuing to repeat them.

Once Vickie discovered she wasn’t returning to her sister’s apartment, she started claims of the lies that had been told (nothing was said or promised) and other claims of mistreatment. She left with her mother, went to lunch with her, and jumped from the car at a gas station close to her mother’s home and disappeared.

My GF thinks progress is made - Vickie said something about maybe returning home after the summer is over. Vickie said she realized that returning home would mean being grounded and she wasn’t willing to be grounded during the summer. I think my GF is fooling herself on this issue.

42

Check the emancipation age for Colorado again. I’ve been in media work all my life in Colorado, and I know a number of family law attorneys who have worked on emancipating kids as young as 15. Now, I have been out of journalism for almost 10 years, and laws may have changed since then, but certainly check into that. If you have any friends in the law business, have them check Poudre Valley Hospital District v. Heckart, 491 P. 2d894 (Colo. Ct. App. 1971). Most of the time, emancipation has to include the child working enough to support herself, but not always – complete abandonment of the parent-child relationship can be grounds for emancipation.

Of course, sit down with GF and have an honest talk with her. If she’s unwilling to work with you to solve this problem, she’ll be unwilling to work with you on any important problem in the future.

43

Is your girlfriend going to report her as a runaway?

44

Yup. Again.

45

My main advice would be to avoid putting any pressure on your girlfriend to wash her hands of her daughter, which will be tough as that is obviously the most convenient situation for everyone. This girl needs help, and is way too young to be given up on. Your girlfriend may not be able to help her daughter, but she needs to do what she can to push her into therapy and/or rehab, and provide an island of stability in the chaos of her daughter’s life.

You, on the other hand, have to do what’s best for your kids, first and foremost. If the only way to realistically have a relationship with this woman is for her to make her daughter less than her absolute top, number one priority or to expose your kids to their chaos, then I think you should end the relationship now. I know it’s not fair, and you both deserve lives too, but fair went out the window when you had kids. :slight_smile:

46

No, that’s all the more reason. You’re not getting over a love, you’re getting over a hate, or at least a dysfunction. It’s going to be a while before your ex stops living in your head.

47

I couldn’t agree more. I also think Belrix, and possibly the girl’s mother, fail to recognize the impact of the two suicides he mentioned have had on this young woman. There’s a lot to speculate on here, in the lives of both families, but I see only more complications and serious problems for all involved. It is my strong opinion that the two adults here are being very self indulgent and the children are not being given the consideration they deserve. Is some powerful love connection between these two adults going to magically fix all the turmoil in the children’s lives? That seems to be the implication.

48

I can’t tell you how many great relationships I would have had except for the “if onlys.” If only he wasn’t going to leave the state for his internship, if only he wanted kids, if only he wasn’t involved with another woman. At the end of the day, the “if onlys” are what kills the relationship.

You simply cannot have a complete relationship with a woman whose minor child cannot be trusted around your own children. Incompatability among the kids is a deal breaker. You can give it a go if you think she’s worth it, but that’s a tough road to travel, especially for someone who is road weary already.

If only she didn’t have this troubled daughter, she’d be the perfect woman. I love you but…

49

Next time the kid runs away, you, your kids, and your girlfriend should up and move to another state and change your names.

That, or just don’t move in together until the kid is an adult and out of the nest entirely.

What it comes down to is that everyone has their own tolerance level. Some folks could handle the situation without difficulty. Others (such as myself) would run screaming from the room and never look back. What your tolerance level may be is only known to you, not to us out here on the boards.

50

Are you actually and seriously suggesting that the vast (yes, vast) majority of girls don’t survive their teen years? You [del]probably[/del] need to get out more.

51

Let’s pause a moment and think on this … PunkditLisa couldn’t have hit the nail on the head any more accurately, IMHO.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Done absorbing her wisdom? I hope her profound statement becomes part of the marrow of your bones and the fiber of your being.

Your children, not your relationship with this woman, should be your first priority. I share this from the perspective of a foster mother who voluntarily brought very troubled teenagers into our home. My permanent children (biological and adopted) were exposed to intense emotions, age inappropriate behavior, and occasionally unavailable parents who were busy dealing with the daily drama that troubled teens thrive on. We made the difficult decision to allow the foster daughters we’d committed to to age out of the system with our family and stop accepting new placements because we didn’t want to traumatize our kids further. For someone with a heart as big as mine (and yours it sounds like) that’s a difficult choice to make, but the healthiest one for your children.

One day, when our current crop of (permanent) teens is grown, we will re-visit becoming foster parents to troubled teens. One day, when your children are closer to grown, you can put your needs first, but right now their needs deserve the best you have to give.

How about maintaining your relationship with your girlfriend as a separate entity from her children and yours. Is that possible without meshing both of your children?

ETA: spelling mistakes - of which I’m sure I still missed a few but am too darned tired to go back and hunt for

52

Why doesn’t your GF look into something like a PINS order? I don’t know what they call it in your state, but it’s a pretty extreme way to get an out of control kid back under control. The kid gets a law guardian/probation officer and yes, can be held in a secure facility if the parent can’t keep her in school and not committing crimes. The PINS order means Vickie could essentially be imprisoned, could wind up in a group home, have to do community service, etc., at its most extreme application. She could be forced to go to school, be drug-free, and be under supervision at all times. Your GF would have to admit she’s lost complete control and has to cede it and her daughter to the tender mercies of the state. But it’s better than what’s likely to happen to Vickie if she keeps going this way.

Also, anyone who thinks older siblings or step-siblings don’t have a big influence on younger kids is divorced from reality. I can’t tell you how often I hear of kids having their first drug/alcohol experience via an older sibling. The sexual philosophy and behavior of older siblings also influences kids in a big way. Younger kids often idolize an olders sib who is perceived as cool, daring, wild, and wordly. You will be providing them with a possible role model if you expose them to Vickie. Not to mention the drama and chaos would not be good for them even if they don’t want to emulate her.

If you intend to stick with your GF, try to keep your kids away from Vickie until they are adults and can see her behavior for what it is. Also, really, you don’t need to cohabitate with or marry this woman any time soon. I know you’re a commitment-oriented guy and you hope for future happiness with someone nice. I for one am not saying you can’t have it with Vickie’s mom. But you can’t have domestic bliss with her as long as Vickie is her dependent (sadly, a situation that could continue long after Vickie is no longer of an age to be a legal dependent).

53

If I were dating someone who had a daughter like Vickie, even without kids, I would dump them immediately. I do not need that kind of drama in my life. Sorry if that isn’t all sympathetic and understanding and all, but this is your LIFE you’re talking about. You just got out of a relationship with a woman who contributed nothing to your daily happiness; why do you want another woman who has massive baggage? Don’t you want a peaceful, happy life for you and your kids?

54

It was an expression. :rolleyes:

A figure of speach.

More clearly, the girls that turned out OK are the ones that–

[list=a]
[li]Survived [/li][li]Didn’t wind up in prison (otherwise, un-met)[/li][li]Didn’t wind up in an institution (otherwise, un-met)[/li][li]Didn’t wind up Homeless (otherwise, un-met)[/li][/list]
Her database is slanted.

55

I disagree… From my own experience, I’d say 99.9% of the girls from my own VERY wild teen years ended up okay - and the ones who didn’t are very few and far between. I started my own thread yesterday in order to not hijack this one.

56

I know, Zombie thread, but I just saw this and feel compelled to reply. You are missing so many pieces. Those four sentences do not begin to describe my family situation at the time. You judge me on four sentences?
My parents had their own marital problems - alcoholism, infidelity, growing apart.
I was undiagnosed bipolar, which manifested at an extremely early age. My behavior as a child was a target for them to point the finger at and therefore not have to deal with their real problems. As the designated family scapegoat, they were mentally and emotionally abusive to me, and I have spent the last several years in therapy working out these issues that have always been there in the back of my head.

I am not blaming my parents for my behavior. I blame my bipolar disorder coupled with the environment in my home, which exacerbated the situation. I don’t know what you think I can “blame” my parents for. They were only human. They made some grave mistakes, but I will never doubt they thought they were doing right. I had a troubled youth - I guess I could partly blame my parents for that based on their actions.

Also, I did not say if you go to public school you’ll become a criminal or drug addict. Just that you’ll likely be exposed to criminals and drug addicts while you’re there.

I knew what I was doing when I was taking drugs and being that rebellious teen. I deliberately tried to be as hardcore as I could. What kind of hypocrite would I be if I tried to blame my parents for my actions? It’s not my parents fault I stuck a needle in my arm. But they were involved in the path I took to get there. There is a difference.