This.
If by cynical, you mean, not wrapped in fluffy claptrap.
Well, I dated a lot before I got married, I’ve been married for 20+ years, and I have lots of female friends, but I’ll level with you:
I still have no idea about what women are thinking about 99% of the time.
Good luck.
“Why do women have to play games, instead of forthrightly and clearly saying how they feel?”
“Hey, wanna go out with me?”
“I had a feeling that you’d ask me out, but I just broke up with my ex so recently I don’t want to get involved with anybody right now. You’re still cool, though, and I’d like to keep talking like this.”
“What does she MEAN?”
How about: she just broke up with my ex so recently that she doesn’t want to get involved with anybody right now, but she’d like to keep talking like this?
Another possibility, about the rebound thing: she may have entertained the notion of acquiring a new boyfriend as soon as possible, for whatever reasons (to get even with the former boyfriend and/or because she felt lonely and depressed, for instance), and she was being sincere in trying to know you better, to see if you’d be a fit, as it were. But now she’s had some time to recover from the hurt, and maybe she realizes that she shouldn’t rush into a new relationship based on such feelings, because it wouldn’t work, neither for her or for you.
So, yeah, in a sense, she may have been “playing” you and now has come to realize, when you asked her out, that she was not being fair to you.
My advice would be to take her at her word and look elsewhere for a girlfriend.
Yep. And “Take her at her word, or have I been friendzoned?” is kind of confusing, because if you take her at her word it means she doesn’t want a romantic relationship with you, which is what you so charmingly call being “friendzoned”. Take her at her word and accept what she said: she doesn’t want a romantic relationship with you. What you do with that information is up to you.
I’ve had female friends that later became romantic partners. Like my current wife. But the difference was, I really was friends with them. I’d go over to my current wife/then friend’s place and we’d watch movies, or make dinners, or all sorts of things. So if you continue a friendship relationship with this woman, it’s totally possible that it could develop into a romantic relationship in the future. But that’s only possible if you’re NOT waiting for it to develop into a romantic relationship. Start looking elsewhere. You cannot have a romantic relationship with this woman at this time, she’s taken that off the table very clearly and directly and non-game-playingly.
Of course you’re entitled to feel disappointed that she’s not interested in you romantically, and her earlier actions certainly gave you plenty of justification that she might have been interested in you, as her words clearly said. You thought she might be interested, you told her straight out that you were interested, and she declined. It’s OK to be disappointed, but that doesn’t mean she was playing games with you or tricking you. Maybe she was, but even if she was, she’s cleared all that up now.
I don’t see anything wrong with the term “friend zone” in itself, as it perfectly describes the underlying reality: the girl you’re interested in only wants a platonic relationship and doesn’t see you as a romantic possibility. Maybe “just friends zone” would convey the same meaning without the implication that people who are dating can’t also be friends. I think the term has just been sullied by its association with bitter MRA neckbeard assholes.
Every word of this is gospel.
I speak from experience. I was once in a situation very similar to yours. I asked her out and she said she didn’t want a relationship. We became good friends. Once in a while, I let her know I’d be open to more, but I didn’t push the issue. I truly liked having her as a friend, and if she never wanted to date me, I still wanted her in my life.
One day she said to me, “If you’re still interested, maybe I am too.” We’ve been married for 18 years now.
You’re not actually reading any of the responses to this thread, are you?
Could you explain what on earth ‘the friendzone game’ is? Because from what you say, it sounds like ‘the friendzone game’ is when you want to fuck someone and she has the sheer temerity not to want to fuck you, but to enjoy your company anyway - and to you this is somehow a ‘game’ and you’ve been ‘played’. Am I missing anything here?
Yeah, you can grumble about being in the “friend zone” or you can actually be her friend. It’s your choice.
If you’re able to leave options open with her but not make her the sole potential object of your affection, maybe see how things play out. If not, it’s probably best to forget it. When I was 23 I would have been just as confused in the same situation, and would have almost certainly misread signals. I never learned to read them, but fortunately met someone who was direct in letting me know her interest.
If someone had said to me when I was single what this woman said to you I would have thought there was hope for a romantic relationship. Maybe the fact that I see it that way is a sure sign there isn’t.
Just being friendly doesn’t mean she wanted to be asked out.
Was there anything she did that she wouldn’t do with one of her girl friends? All the things you mentioned–talking extensively, texting, going for coffee, etc–are all normal things that platonic friends do. The misunderstanding is that you may have assumed that since she is a woman, the only reason she’s doing that with you is that she’s interested in a romantic relationship. But the truth is she likely acts the same way with many of her platonic friends as she did with you.
There are some behaviors that people will do with a romantic partner that they won’t do with a friend. You need to look for those signals. These might be things like flirting, looking longingly, hinting that you should hang out, casual touching, etc. So if you said she was always running her fingers through your hair and talking about how handsome you were, then I would be surprised if she didn’t want to go out with you.
You need to make it clear within the first or second time you hang out with a girl that you’re interested.
You should have tried to kiss her and forced her to make a choice. As it stands now, she will tug you along and you will get nothing.
(bolding mine)
I don’t necessarily disagree with any part of your post. The only part that I would push back on is that I think that these topics keep coming up, in part, because some people are very, very, very bad at reading cues (I cop to being such a person), which causes us to have different values of “obvious” and “uncertain.” And sometimes speech can be even further obfuscated by the listener misinterpreting body language. There’s certainly been more than one occasion, before I got around to registering, when I’ve read a discussion thread on this message board that included verbiage that I thought was unambiguous when reading it, but probably wouldn’t have in a face-to-face circumstance.
I will add, however, that I do feel/agree that the comments about being “played” and “friendzoned” come across as passive aggressive, stereotypical “Nice Guy” behavior.
I think some of you guys are being a bit overly harsh towards me here. You act as if I’d demanded that she hop into bed with me RIGHT NOW :dubious: and I’m suddenly angry at the world because she said no. Seriously, all I did was ask her on a date, and, in light of her response, I’m just perplexed - and yes, frustrated - given that the signals which she’d been sending me were pretty damn straightforward and suggested that she’d be interested. I asked other people beforehand whether her indications were such as I perceived them, and I was given green lights all around.
I mean, look, the way I understand it, if she weren’t interested then she wouldn’t have given me her number; she wouldn’t have told me that she just broke up with her boyfriend; she wouldn’t have sent me texts late at night asking how my day went; she wouldn’t have gone out of her way to meet me before class.
Of course, it’s entirely possible (and in hindsight, probably accurate) that she did do those things even though she wasn’t accurate. I’m open to that.
The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning towards the idea that she was flirting with the idea of getting in another relationship (with me), but, by the time I asked her, she’d decided that she just couldn’t do it for whatever reason. Hell, maybe if I’d asked her one day sooner she would’ve said ok, but for all I know she might’ve pulled out before we ever actually did anything. But yes, I’m generally in favor of taking her at her word.
But I’ve been in the friendzone before, and it sucks, which is why I broadly consider it to be an insult. I also don’t like all the mixed signals that were happening here, whether intentional or not. But again, I am far, FAR from a player, as a quick glance at my post history would say.
That you’ve convinced yourself she must have been considering a relationship with you initially and then changed her mind later, is complete delusion and all about your ego. In the face of many people pointing out all she did was open up and talk with you and have coffee. Like she does with her other friends. Like she likely misses doing with the ex beau. That you can’t see it as so, even when it’s been pointed out to you, repeatedly, screams that this is your issue, not hers.
And then, you consider being friend zoned , (a phrase/concept others have pointed out to you is ugly and immature, but yet you cling to!), an insult, which only confirms how really immature you are.
Someone being honest and telling you they only want to be friends is an insult to you? Wow!
But I’m sure you’re right, we’re all terribly mistaken. And she’s playing you! And friend zoning you! And you should be insulted! How dare she change her mind when she clearly wanted you initially! Clearly you have been horribly, horribly victimized. Feel better now?
Being perplexed and frustrated is fine. But you’ve come across as perplexed and frustrated with her, which isn’t fine, IMO – she’s done nothing wrong based on what you’ve posted. Sending mixed signals (and any signals can be interpreted as “mixed”) is not a ‘wrong’ thing to do – it’s just something that happens, especially with young people.
Maybe, maybe not. People are complicated and weird; especially young people.
If you don’t like the “friendzone”, then don’t be friends. There’s nothing wrong with rejecting a friendship – just like there’s nothing wrong with rejecting a date or relationship.
My advice is to stop reading signals at all. Just go with what people say straight up, and say straight up how you feel. Life is much easier that way. It’s possible you might miss some opportunities, but you’ll definitely miss lots and lots of frustration.
Did you ever tell her that your late-night talks with her, asking about her boyfriend, request for her phone number, etc., were your way of hitting on her? Or were you just playing her?
Honestly, the more you write, the harsher my thoughts are about you.
You could totally solve both your problems (whether you’re ever going to go out with her, and whether you’re going to be friends with her) inside five minutes, just by showing her this thread.
No, he’s right! Insert some more friendship tokens - just enough, mind you - and women are sure to dispense vagina! :rolleyes:
I hate the term friendzone. Hate it hate it hate it. No one ever talks about the other side of it. Here I am, being friends with you, trying to get to know you better, really appreciating that I can just talk to you, when I find out all you ever wanted to do was fuck me. And somehow I am the one in the wrong?
Being in the friendzone! I thought that was being friends! And if you don’t want to be friends, move the fuck on! But don’t pretend to be nice to her and be interested in what she says just so you can get a chance at pussy!
Ugh. Disgusted.
A friendship is not “nothing!” I’m ok with it if you don’t want just a friendship. And yes, OP should have made his intentions clear right away.