Talking to a girl I like.

In My Humble Opinion
21

Anonymous User, just for you, I’m going to make a list of my “faults,” so that hopefully you don’t feel quite so alone.

I am really, really pale. Like, the whitest dude you’ve ever seen.

On top of that, I have a ton of moles. Well over 100, some on my face and neck.

I’m skinny. Probably a little bit underweight.

I’ve always been a book nerd, to the point that I went and got a graduate degree in English. Good grades and all that.

I inherited easily-stained teeth from both parents, so mine have never been all that white.

My favorite hobby? Trains and railroads. I’ve always done model trains, and I’m almost like an Asperger’s kid when it comes to knowledge of the real thing.

I actually like a lot of (older) country music.

I’ve never had a whole heck of a lot of money…middle class at best.

I suffer from depression/chronic low mood, for which I have to take medicines.

I also have Irritable Bowel Syndrome, which sucks in and of itself, but having to explain it to dates can be embarrassing.

I’m soft-hearted, especially when it comes to animals.

I friggin’ love some Batman and Star Trek.
But you know what? I own all that shit. It’s mine, and it makes me who I am. And ultimately, the only person who really cares about ‘counting faults’ is me. The rest of us typically don’t go around cataloging what’s wrong with other people–we are too obsessed with doing it to ourselves!

So, whoever you are, and whatever you’re into…don’t change it for anybody else. BE YOU. Own the shit out of you.

Trust me, the ladies dig it.

22

Thank you so much BlakeTyner. You are really helping me with these problems I have been having for years. Especially the advice about talking to girls for the sake of it, not with a goal in mind. I think that mentality will really help.

It is just that the things that bring down my confidence is when I hear short guys getting rejected by every girl in the school because they are short, or a girl’s friends laughing and laughing because she got together with a short guy (actually slightly taller than me).

But after reading a lot of people’s posts in that other thread, I am not feeling as insecure about my height as before. Those were (finally) convincing refutations to my belief that it will be near impossible for me to get a girlfriend because of my height.

23

Speaking as someone who was in this position for an unfathomably long time: people will tell you just be yourself or whatever but conversation is a skill and it takes practice.

Generally try to talk to more people. Not just pluck up the courage to talk to her, but get more comfortable talking to new people.
You may get some awkward silences – but note that means the other person was struggling for something to say too, and some rude people – but recognizing rudeness, and knowing to walk away or whatever, is a skill in itself.

I have more specific conversation tips, but I think this is the important first thing to realize: good conversation / social skills do take some practice, so don’t beat yourself up about a conversation being awkward but also don’t sit back and hope you’ll gain confidence just through introspection.

24

Yessir! Glad I could help.

Eh, you don’t have that much longer left in high school (which is a vicious world, I know.) It’ll surprise you how fast the high school mentality vanishes, whether you go on to college or not.

For the time being, why don’t you just start smiling and saying “hello” or “what’s up” to strangers, male and female, of all ages? Hold a door open for someone at the 7-11, and just casually say “hey, how’s it goin?” You’re not really out to start a conversation with anyone…you’re just getting used to being social with other humans. That’ll translate well into more intimate situations.

Plus, if the person doesn’t say “hi” back…so what? You’ll never see 'em again, anyway.

25

Trust me - lots of your friends and classmates are insecure too - they are just better at faking it.

You need to fake it just a little bit. Don’t change who you are, but lack of confidence is what is going to hurt you here.

As far as women goes - it does get better. I mean - plenty of women/girls are awkward at that age too. Some are still in that “I’m saving my virginity for the perfect guy mode”. This goes away (for most) as you/they get older. If you are willing to go for women in your league - it is relatively less painful as an adult. It isn’t like all their friends are trapped in the same building with them for six hours a day.

You’ll go on a date with someone - have a few drinks (which you can’t do now) - conversation will start to flow. I’m not saying alcohol is the answer to all your problems, but this is an example of one of several things you can’t do right now which will/can make it easier for you.

But everyone who has advised you to just talk for the sake of it is right. Girls can sense when you are trying to get with them. Don’t give off that vibe. You want to appear friendly and interesting, but they shouldn’t be SURE you are interested in them.

Find what you like - and own it as someone else said. Try not to worry too much about the short stuff. You can’t do much about that - and you still have a few years to add some height - even if you don’t - that isn’t going to stop you - unless you let it ruin your confidence.

You’ll have to learn to read signals and stuff like that. When a girl is interested in you - it should be relatively obvious. Or rather - the reverse is often more true. If she is not interested - THAT should be obvious. If she is NOT interested - do NOT hit on her. It will make her uncomfortable. Feel free to keep talking to her, but make it light hearted and fun and don’t go overboard. No on should be able to look at your conversation and say “hey - he obviously likes her”.

I think you are only at risk of getting friend zoned with women who have signaled to you they ARE interested - and you do nothing about it. Women who haven’t made up their mind yet aren’t waiting for you - so it’s not as big of a deal.

26

Showing interest in her as a person and not just as a vagina surrounded by a pair of legs? That was a definite plus with my crowd when we were your age. First you talk, then you show interest in more than talk.

As for the drinks DataX mentions: food/drink are good conversation helpers without needing to get alcohol involved. Do you eat at school? Sit down to mixed tables - or make one mixed by asking whether it’s ok if you join them (pick one where you know someone, for best results). If there are any in the group you don’t know, “hi, I’m AU!” gets the introductions started, no need to give them your bio.

Your classmates are as insecure as you are - but you’re all lousy at reading it.

27

I do think there are things that can put a guy in “the friend zone”, but “talking to a girl like a person” is not one of them. For one thing, there is a natural rhythm to these things, and if you put off asking someone out well beyond the natural time for it, they will assume you are not interested and put you in the “Friend zone”. I don’t mean that there is an exact perfect day you have to figure ut, of course, but if you get to the point where you are talking to a girl on the phone every couple of days, texting/messaging/instagramming her multiple times a day, eating lunch together, etc, and you let that go on for months, she’s going to decide you are a friend, a brother. An even worse form of this that I have seen from both guys and girls is to actively decieve: to deny interest, to fake a crush on someone else, etc. So don’t do that. But do practice talking to girls–all types of girls.

As far as hearing girls making fun of someone for hooking up with a short guy goes: let me tell you something nasty about human nature. The actual details people ridicule others for are generally excuses, not reasons. In high school, the real reason is most likely social hierarchy. She hooked up with a guy that wasn’t quite as cool as her, and that’s a black mark. So they make fun of him for being short. But she could hook up with a short popular guy tomorrow and it wouldn’t be a thing.

Also, are you a sophomore? For some reason, sophomores always have the worst time with girls. The girls that want to date largely want to date juniors, and all sophomore boys look kinda doughy and unformed next to them. Lots of sophomore girls don’t want to date at all. Everyone is very aware of the social hierarchy that still persists from middle school. All of this gets a lot better next year. I’ve been watching this cycle for years.

28

It depends which friend zone we’re talking about.
I’ve put the rest in a spoiler box, as it’s a bit of a tangent and I don’t want to distract the thread (and the OP) from the message of “practice talking to girls–all types of girls”, which I agree 100%.

If it’s just two friends, and one (or both) secretly wished it was more, then your advice is correct.

However, the typical person who complains of being in the friend zone, and the friend zone of numerous dating threads, is a more specific (but nonetheless common) situation than this. And here your advice is still right (don’t fake anything), but with a caveat.

This situation is where:

(reverse genders as applicable)

  1. She knows he likes her, but prefers not to think about it. In the meantime, she likes the status quo because he’s always available and always affirming.
  2. He knows she doesn’t feel the same way. But in the meantime, he gets to spend lots of time with a woman he’s crazy about, so he doesn’t rock the boat either.
    So you get something that’s not really a friendship, nor a romantic relationship.

In this situation, it’s a bad idea for the guy to just blurt out his feelings IMO + IME. He first needs to be just friends: IOW not quite so available.

29

My response:

In that case, the guy (or girl–I’ve been that girl) is in a horrible destructive relationship that he needs to get out of entirely. The question is not “what is the best course of action to make her change her mind and love me?” but “what is the best course of action to help myself get over her? Because this is not happening”.

One more thing to the OP–another reason to talk to all sorts of girls is that girls are often friends with each other. The guy who has time time talk to the pretty one, but stares right through the ugly one does not come across well. The unstated message seems to be “All girls are basically boring with nothing worthwhile to say. The pretty ones at least have that going for them, so I will fake interest in the boring stupid stuff in order to attract them. But that’s as far as I will go.”

I really honestly think that a significant portion of teenage boys would tell you, entirely un-ironically, that if it weren’t for the sex/dating/affection thing, they wouldn’t talk to girls. That if there’s no potentially date-able girls at a party, they won’t talk to any girls at all, because dudes are more interesting. Getting past that divide–which is a holdover from middle-school puberty dynamics–is a huge step in becoming comfortable with girls.

30

But you should probably use your real name, not your dope handle.

31

This is the time of your life to be learning, my friend! You should be talking to every girl you can. Not just the ones you want to get with! So you can learn how to do it. Well. The more conversations you have the less awkward you’ll become.

Experience should be your friend and goal. The only way to learn, to handle rejection, is to survive it, I believe. You’ll learn it may sting, but doesn’t end the world, life will go on. Once you’re no longer unduly afraid of rejection, (such that it doesn’t crush you, you are able to move forward), the awkward will slip away.

Run out of conversation? Ask about her. Have a topic ready, that you know and like.

Yes, high school girls can be rude and immature, about height or a thousand other things. But then, teenage boys can be self absorbed and a tad neurotic, at times too!

Good Luck to you!

32

Wow, you guys are giving excellent insight on this, addressing a lot of the problems I have been having. This is what I have needed for years. I have wasted so much time on Yahoo! Answers for advice and while Y!A for dating is not necessarily bad (people there are actually pretty nice and some give great advice), it never gave the kind of advice I have really needed. But here, I am finally getting it.

That’s not to say that Y!A is bad though. I think it’s actually pretty useful for dating and relationships, but it seems like they are more oriented towards giving solutions for problems that people who are already in a relationship or have something going for them have, rather than people like me who have never really interacted with the opposite gender and are just getting started.

Anyway, thanks again for all the help. It means a lot.

33

Don’t use the word “fucking” until you are absolutely sure she (and everyone within earshot) will not be offended by it. A general advisory, not just applicable to this instance.

It’s not a word you use when “you don’t know what to say”. even though it does have appropriate applications when used selectively.

34

I hesitate to try to draw real-life lessons from sitcoms…

…but in this case,I think the underlying message is really valuable one.

Cam and Mitch, two characters on ABC’s Modern Family, are hanging out with friends and begin discussing how gay they appear to be — Cam and Mitch are in fact a gay couple, and Cam avers that he doesn’t give off a gay vibe. To the open disbelief of his partner and friends, Cam claims to have been quite the womanizer before he came out. (Mitch’s rejoinder: “…or stepped out of a machine called the womanizer!”)

To prove his claim, Cam proposes to the group that they select any woman in the place, and he’ll get her phone number. Amid hoots of disbelief, they pick a good-looking woman sitting alone at the bar, and sure enough, Cam approaches her and effortlessly launches into a too-corny but somehow charming pickup routine that has her laughing and returns in a moment, triumphantly, with her number.

Later, in the show’s mockumentary style, Cam speaks to the camera alone, musing that if she had been a cute guy, he never would have had the courage and confidence to try to strike up a conversation like that. What gave him the appearance of confidence and assuredness was the knowledge that even a rejection didn’t really matter.

And in the midst if all the improbable setups and laugh lines in the sitcom, I think the writers showed a great understanding of truth. Realize – internalize – that any given interaction may, or may not, result in something…but even if it doesn’t, it’s fine. A rejection when you talk to a girl does not mean you must move to another town and change your name and hope that your new friends never hear of your ignominies. It just means that you’re a guy, and talked to a girl. Nothing terrible.

35

One other thing about the friend zone: it’s going to happen. There’s no way you’re going to date or hook up with every girl you’re interested in, so just accept it. If you’re interesting and nice and on the same wavelength, some of these girls will probably become your pals. That’s not exactly a fate worse than death.

36

There are plenty of responses above that say it will get better as you get older. I completely agree.

Almost.

I had similar issues talking to women, it’s just a way nature messes with youth. I can now talk to essentially any woman. My profession requires me to talk to complete strangers, some are incredibly attractive women. No problem. I’ve also been married for a long time and have a child, so there’s the “no fear of rejection” side of it, but I was that way before I was married. It will come, just as others have mentioned. It’s all a confidence thing.

On the anecdotal side, about three months ago while at one of my daughter’s sports lessons, the first girl I ever had a honest-to-Og thing for was there with her daughter. We haven’t seen each other in almost 25 years, I thought she had moved away years ago. I turned into a 13 year old boy again. Shyness, embarrassment, nausea, the whole nine yards. We didn’t talk, I’m not even sure she knew who I was. Nothing even happened between us way back when, so there was no reason I can think of to suffer those effects. Just her mere presence was enough to scramble my brain. I saw her again and again for the next eight weeks as her daughter’s lesson ended and my daughter’s began. No change in response on my behalf. Possibly the most uncomfortable I have been in years. I had forgotten (blocked?) how awful those feelings could be, but they came back with a vengeance.

It goes away in time. But it can apparently sneak back up on you.

37

I would go into it with this mindset – most of the time, you will get rejected, so you might as well just relax. So expect rejection. But not in a bad way – everyone gets rejected sometimes. Most people get rejected most of the time.

But don’t consider rejection a failure – it’s not a failure. The only failure is not to try. As long as you make an effort (and be kind, respectful, etc), then it’s a win. Once rejection is both pretty normal and you don’t see it as a failure, then it’s not a big deal, and there’s nothing to fear. Once there’s nothing to fear, then suddenly it becomes easy, and you won’t be anxious doing it. And then, eventually, someone will say “yes”.

38

Take the Glenn Beck approach: just ask questions. Not just “What’s up?” or pick-up lines, but about real things. Almost everyone likes to talk about themselves. You can’t go wrong with animals. “I noticed your cat folder, do you have any cats at home?” Start with neutral safe topics.

It can also help to see people outside of classes, like at a meeting or club, to establish some common interest outside of schoolwork. I was in band in high school and could talk about music or instruments with anyone for hours. Join theatre, you’ll get real good at talking to people of all shapes, sizes, and genders *real *quick.

39

Another note on this “friendzone” business. It doesn’t exist. If a girl tells you “I see you as a friend”, you can be certain she is letting you down easy, because she doesn’t want to tell you she isn’t attracted to you, or thinks you’re weird, or whatever.

40

If you’ve never been in the friend zone, I’m happy for you, but I assure you it’s a real thing. But of course if someone says: “I see you as a friend” or “Let’s just be friends” that’s something different entirely; a very overt, out-in-the-open situation where it’s clear where everyone stands.

To the OP: please don’t think about the friend zone. I’m just trying to clarify a point here, and it’s not so relevant to the OP. For that, I stand by what I said in post 23.