I’d like to have a buck for every time I heard that line; I wouldn’t be rich, but I could probably get a case of good microbrewed beer. That and being told how nice I was. For a long time I equated “nice” with “I wouldn’t go out with you in a million years.” Mind you I think everyone who said those things had their hearts in the right place, eventually it can get to be too much. I’m sure a lot of those girls and women weren’t attracted to me or thought I was weird. Nothing wrong with that; I am weird and I do have qualities that some find unattractive.
This happens because if women are direct and give a guy a laundry list of his faults, we get called bitches or picky (or, in extreme cases, physically assaulted). Nobody wants to say OR hear, “I don’t want to date you because you’re into 40k minis and play too many online games and only eat hot pockets and smell funky.”
Anyway, this isn’t how social interaction works. People don’t just say what they feel, whether out of politeness or fear or whatever. If you think this is how social interaction works, then you need to practice more.
Suppose it DOES get you friendzoned? Terrible situation! You have a woman friend! An attractive woman who likes you and whom you like. Heaven forbid!
Frankly, you WANT to be friend-zoned right now with your degree of social awkwardness around women. You need to learn to talk to women you find sexy as people. Get yourself friend-zoned, learn how to be yourself around an attractive (for whatever value of “attractive” you have) woman. Then start talking with other women you like. Some will friendzone you … some won’t.
You’ll get over that phase, man
Butterflies are ok. Being nervous is normal. However, being incapacitated and stammering means you’ve got deeper issues at play and might not be ready for a relationship. Your insecurities and self doubt will only get worse if she says yes. If you can’t bring yourself to the point of asking her out, then I don’t think you’ve got the activation energy to date her in the first place. Work on your confidence, your social skills, and your self worth and then the rest will come*.
Also, the thing with the friendzone is that it confronts us with our own inadequacy. Whether we come to terms with that or not is the difference between “Oh, Andrea? Yeah, I think I might have her number. Let me check.” and “DEAR GOD WHY WON’T YOU LOVE ME?!”
*You say you don’t know what to talk about or how to hold a conversation. In reality, you probably have loads to talk about. You just don’t think it’s interesting because you don’t think what you do is worth conversing about. Literally anything will do as far as conversation goes. You’re walking to go get ice cream. Your cousin works at an ice cream shop. Your other cousin plays Tennis. You play tennis recreationally. Yeah, you two should play some time but your real passion is martial arts. You go train 3x a week. Here, show her a move or two. That was really good. Not a lot of people can…
See how mundane that was? That’s what conversations are - especially high school first date conversations. You didn’t even get to the part where you ask questions about her life, her interests, her hobbies, her family, etc.
Alright, thanks man. The butterflies are sort of not coming as much or at least not as strongly. However, incapacitation and stammering sort of is still a problem because I am not used to this. But I will just keep trying and hopefully, I will get over that sooner rather than later.
Anyway, I was wondering, how would my insecurities and self-doubt only get worse if she said “yes”?
If she does agree to go on a date, where would you go? What would you do? When will you go? How will you get there? What would you wear? How would you wear your hair? What would you talk about? Should you hold her hand? How should it end? Do you kiss her? Do you hug her? How long do you hug for? Was it too long? What do you do after? Do you ask for a second date? Do you ask her to be your girlfriend? What does that mean? How do I ask?
Or… you go from a quivering mess of stammering jello into the coolest, suavest guy in the world just because she agrees to go on a date with you. Ya know… either/or.
Remember, you’re not trying to win your soulmate. You want to have a good time. Maybe you should practice talking to other girls too?
Actually, I would know the answer to most of those questions and wouldnt freak out over it, or at least dont want to (sorry my new phone doesnt automatically do contractions). I am not so worried about what I would do if I went on a date. Its the initial attraction and flirting stage I have trouble with.
Anyway, with my current crush, I am sort of at the level where she knows I exist but we hardly know each other. All I need to do is get a conversation going, and I think I am ready to do that now she knows I exist.
Edit: yeah if she said “yes”, it would be a huge confidence boost, even if the relationship wouldnt last because it would make me think, “Hey, I shouldnt have too much of a problem gettiing girls…”
I definitely agree with you, and it’s not as if I wish I had been told it was because I was a total spaz. And to be fair, I also heard, “no, I don’t think so.” Bottom line is that if they didn’t want to go out with me, that did the right thing by saying no. I just got a little tired of being told how nice I was when it seemed like no one wanted to go out with me. Of course that wasn’t the case, and when I moved to a different part of the country right before I turned 30 things really turned around.
If you’re so supremely confident that you’ll be able to talk to this girl once you get a date, then asking her out on a date seems almost trivial, doesn’t it? You don’t even need to have a conversation. Just ask her out to do something and it’ll all be down hill from there.
One general point which I think is relevant to the OP but also many people in general:
(reverse genders as appropriate)
Many guys are waiting for the quick fix that will make them great with women. They’re terrible now, but they just need to find that magic change that will fix them overnight. I thought that way for years.
It’s a bad way to look at things. The reality is, if you get out there, push yourself, gain confidence in talking to new people, whether hot or not, you will get better bit by bit. And in the process you will have a lot of fun.
But you won’t get jedi mind powers. You’ll never be “fixed”. You’ll still have relationship problems, and you’ll still have more to learn.
The more I learn, the more I learn how much I have to learn.
Smoove B will have all the answers for you.
Bumping this thread because of a problem I have ran into with this approach:
I certainly like your idea and I agree it’s the best way to go about things, but there is a contradiction I have ran into:
If I, for example, see a girl that appeals to me in the hall, sure I can go up and talk to her. But a lot of times, those girls don’t share any classes with me. So the only way to stay in contact with them is if I ask for their number at the end. But then because of that, I end up having a “goal”. The problem is if I don’t ask for their number at the end, how am I going to stay in touch?
Talking to them later is a goal. Let that go. Learn to enjoy that passing conversation in and of itself. You may well see them around later, and may well enjoy a passing conversation then, too. You may be in classes with them next year. You may never, ever talk to them again. All that’s fine.
I don’t know how many more times in how many more ways this can be repeated.
If you have something to say to a girl, say it. If you don’t, you shouldn’t force it.
-
Demonstrate value.
Maybe you have a magic trick that you can show her, or a picture of you holding some sports trophy for “greatest sportsman” or similar. This will demonstrate to her, even if only subconsciously, that you are an alpha male and worthy of her attentions. -
Involve her less attractive friends.
Some pretty girls will be put off if you focus dirctly on them in conversation, because that’s how guys always hit on them. But if you engage her less attractive friends she will be unused to this disruption in the natural order and will strive to regain her position as centerpiece of the conversation. Now she is doing the work of maintaining the conversation for you. -
Criticize her.
Also known as “negging”. “I bet you could probably pass for pretty, if you weren’t wearing glasses, of course”. As an attractive girl she will become confused and at ease by your criticism because it appears that you are not interested in her. She is used to recieveing compliments only. Turn the tables on her so that now she is on the back foot and ready to fall into your waiting arms behind her. -
Kinnetics
Lean in to touch her back or butt at important points during the conversation, like when someone laughs, or you share a special moment. -
Move her away.
Getting her alone, apart from the others, might require a ruse of some kind (“I would like to show you my etchings” for example). Or may require some physical coersion, but always in a loving and respectful way. -
Oath of love and devotion.
Here is where you win her over by telling her your true feelings and how much you have fallen in love with her glassless face. You will have to play this by ear for it to sound natural. -
Vagina.
You’ve earned it my friend. -
Exit stage left.
And write an account on your blog to share with your friends.
My patented system: D.I.C.K.M.O.V.E
As the resident PUA-defender here; I think “dick-move” is an inaccurate paraphrasing of the advice such guys give.
(Though for this subject, as any other, I’m sure you can find some nutcase preaching such “advice”, it’s not what the mainstream, most famous guys, are saying.)
I will say that for most men, what they need to improve first and foremost is general skills and etiquette for conversation and talking to groups (of whatever gender).
But also being aware of some of the PUA concepts like “kino / kinnetics”, for example, doesn’t hurt IMO.
Unlike the above description implying it is some sort of groping, what it actually means is to throw in little incidental touches of the completely non-sexual kind you could be comfortable doing while talking to anyone.
Then, over time, if things are heating up, those touches can gradually become more intimate (though still not sexual), if, and only if, she is reciprocating all the way.
The advice is primarily aimed at guys who don’t normally attempt any physical contact, even if it’s someone they’ve been on a couple of dates with already.
Yeah, the above is a parody. I think PUA literature can have some interesting and helpful things to teach clueless guys. On the other hand, creepy guys can make anything creepy. So there is a broad spectrum of material under the PUA umbrella.