I was really glad John had the good sense to talk to Derek about Cameron’s killing style. I was afraid he was just going to brood and keep it to himself like all the characters on Lost.
It does seem there’s a third faction. Still unclear if Weaver is connected to it, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
For all we know, the liquid metal in the submarine was Weaver. Of course, it also had the trademarked finger shake. My fangirl self has to admit to squeeing at that.
This season is getting much, much better, and quickly.
I agree with all of these.
Future John is definitely dead or disabled and Cameron probably came back to better prepare him for whatever catastrophic event causes it.
Jesse is probably alive. Which saddens me because Jesse needs to die, she sucks as a character and her character is a sucky person.
I also think that the T-1000 on the sub was Weaver. While there’s no real basis for this in the movies or the shows, I believe T-1000 Terminators (or T-Xs or any other liquid metal machine) are extremely rare. So if we see two instances of liquid metal, they’re likely the same one.
I’m not too fond of the character, but she doesn’t strike me as a sucky person. You have to remember we’re dealing with the fate of all of humanity here - one death or even a million deaths is worthwhile if it ends up saving humanity. They did a good job this episode fleshing out her distrust of the machines - so if she thinks the human-controlled machines are actually a huge threat, and that Cameron has way too much influence over Connor, her plan was a reasonable attempt at the greater good even if it had an innocent victim.
Just to show how rare they are, no one on the sub crew knew what the liquid metal was.
Does anyone else think John Henry will tell Ellison what he think Weaver has planned for him?
I’m pretty sure Weaver represents a third faction in this war but I’m not sure what her end game is. My best bet is she’s trying to establish a machine ruler of humanity rather than a genocidal freak. But where did these ideas come from? She didn’t come up with them because she’s made by SkyNet and their mission is, to quote the Daleks “EXTERMINATE” So someone else gave her this programming. But who?
Another thing, I don’t think Cameron’s bomb in her brain was future John’s idea. I think it was hers. If it was John’s it would have been pulled off much sooner and Sarah would have blown her to bits by now. Which means Cameron is very different from other Terminators. My best guess is she is some sort of SkyNet prototype that John got a hold of.
Arnie in T2 showed the ability for self sacrifice for the accomplishment of his mission and this is along the same lines. She realizes that if she has some sort of malfunction she could end up being the one who causes her to fail her mission to protect John. So of her own initiative she gave him some insurance against her potential threat.
I know people have floated the “Cameron is a special Terminator prototype” theory before, but I just don’t see it. The episode that showed Cameron’s physical model showed that Future Cameron’s first Terminator mission was a simple infiltration kill. Future John probably grabbed her the same way he grabbed all of the other T-888s.
It’s not hard proof, but I always thought the implication was that she was just a regular T-888.
My whole idea of the possible third faction got ruined by this episode.
Weaver’s interaction with John Henry was interesting though. Ellison’s teaching it how to be human, while Weaver is teaching it how to be a “machine.” So I was thinking their goal with John Henry is to train the machines to assimilate with humans but Weaver’s last comment implying that it is okay to kill humans kind of mixed things up.
I’m glad John did some good detective work this episode. Also it was nice not to see some stupid little drama about Derrek coming in and defending his precious loved one. Although, the scene where he was going to shoot her was too Point Breakish. I almost expected him to point the gun up and let a few fly. For what it’s worth, I think Derrek let her go. He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy the kind of guy that would get revenge and I don’t think we’ve seen him break a direct order.
Oh and he finally picked a decent battle with his mom. Usually, opposing her has made him look like an idiot but he got it right this time by apologizing to Cameron.
I think the whole “faith” issue is really interesting–it started with all the talk about Job, and having faith in your lord even when you are being tested, but it’s really developing nicely–what does it mean to have faith? How do you know when to put your faith in someone else? How do you tell when you are being tested vs. when your faith was misplaced? And, how responsible are we towards those who put faith in us? All those themes seem to be playing out on multiple levels, which is really interesting to me.
Is there any chance at all for a 3rd season? The ratings seem to be dismal to me, but I don’t know much about TV.
Truth be told, I think the only reason we got a second season was because Fox can time the season finale with the opening of Terminator Salvation.
Although that would mean a third season is a possbility because they can tie it to T4’s DVD release.
I sure hope they keep going. I think it is getting better. Especially now that Riley is dead. This last episode was very good. I like Cameron more and more.
I hated, hated, and hated Jesse before this episode, but she actually gained a lot of sympathy. John (or perhaps Cameron as theorized) hung her and her crew out to dry. He gave the machine the understanding that it had seniority without explaining that to the crew (or making it a volunteer only crew). So Jesse IMO has every right to be terribly pissed at him, and to want Cameron out of the picture entirely. I still kinda hope she’s dead though. I took “John Connor let her go” to mean he killed her but didn’t want John to think he was responsible.
Ellison used to be my favorite character, but the longer he goes without putting it all together, the more credibility he loses. He should have been onto Weaver the first time he saw her with the child. Maybe they’ll retro that he always suspected, but they should have shown more suspicion from him up till now. He’s seen too much to be so dumb at this point. But then again, I don’t know what else he could do … play along or die I guess…
I thought this was going for more of a “Galactica” angle, myself—showing the humans, understandably traumatized as they may be, as very readily giving in to paranoia and hatred in a situation where they needed to keep their wits about them. Seems more of a “Twilight Zone” angle when put like that, I suppose, but the underlying racist/specist undertones (towards machines, specifically) and the “people acting like dicks and fanatics who happen to still be legitimately threatened and oppressed” elements figure in to a more modern version. The resistance Terminators’ biggest flaw, in this episode, seemed to be more of a lack of tact than anything else.
Maybe, maybe not.
I’m betting that, one way or another, John Henry is going to end up as being more pro-human than any of the other machine factions out there. He’s not a proto-Skynet, I don’t think.
-Joe
I think she is the same basic model as the “Rosie” terminator she fought. Basically girl-sized versions of the T-8xx series.
They shouldn’t be the same model as Arnold or Cromartie since they clearly have a much smaller endoframe, being girl-sized and all.
They are only rare because we see the prototypes. I have to think that it would be even easier to mass-produce “mimetic poly-alloy” terminators as they don’t have chemicals, moving parts, or whatnot.
Ambiguous that we didn’t see her head explode. But I took their conversation to mean that Derek killed her.
Connor “…watching for me to make a mistake?”
Derek “Watching you to be human.”
Meaning the John Connor “let her live” because he shows compassion and humanity and that’s why he is followed. But sometimes that compassion gets in the way of hard, often monsterous, things that must be done in order to ensure the future of humanity.
That’s exactly what I said. Arnold was a T-800 Model 101 (teh big Austrian guy model). Cameron is probably a T-888 Model 102 (the tiny teenage/twentysomething model that is perfect for luring in hormonally charged guys model).
Basically, we agree, Cameron is not a prototype or special in any way.
I also have a totally unsupported fanwank theory that SkyNet is afraid of the T-1000 Terminators. So they limit there numbers. I think if they were to go off mission they could easily take over. This wank is part of the reason why I am 100% behind the third faction theory.
This is the part I don’t really get. What purpose does killing Jesse serve? Her agenda doesn’t precisely align with the others, but her overriding concern is still the survival of John Conner. She isn’t going to compromise his security. Derek certainly seemed to trust her up until now, at least.
It seems to me that it would be better to keep her around. Having another ally could come in handy. Even if she can’t be completely trusted, she’d be in a position where they could keep an eye on her. And now that she knows her plan was a failure, she might be more willing to accept the situation…
Because she’s a powerful wildcard with a proven inclination to persue her own agenda. She won’t directly hurt John, but they can’t predict exactly what she’ll do. She’s a risk. The only real choice would be to bring her on board completely where they could monitor, or kill her. Letting her run around doing her own thing is dangerous.
But this is television and that means that if you don’t SEE someone die, then they probably aren’t dead. (Heck, on a lot of shows even if you DO see them die they turn out not to be dead.) Jessie was a good character. Despicable, yes, but an interesting character played by a good actress. If the series continues long enough, we’ll see her again, one way or another.
I think this is actually something they explored in one of the Terminator novelizations/EU stories back in the 90s, or so I recall hearing. But I don’t know if it was anything past a mention that Skynet was wary of sending Robert Patrick back because he was advanced enough to go rogue, or if they actually had any go all “false Maria” on Skynet’s plans.
And while I’m thinking of it, I’m actually starting to notice some parallels between John and Skynet/John Henry. I mean, I think we’ve talked here before about how it seems like Weaver is taking it as inevitable that a Skynet will end up being created, but she’s trying to influence what becomes Skynet, and how it develops. Presumably to her own, or her faction’s ends.
Now you have John on the other hand.—Jesse tried to manipulate his past to change what she thinks Future John Connor should be doing; Sarah’s paranoid about anything changing what her idea of what the future (and Future John Connor) is supposed to be…y’see where I’m going? Each side in the war is essentially trying to build their own version of their Messiah.
It took me the better part of ten minutes to type that last paragraph, as I couldn’t sleep last night. i sleep now.
So it’s been established that Jesse and Derrek are from different futures. But what about Cameron? I’ve always assumed she’s from the same future as Derrek but it’s completely unsubstantiated.