I can’t tell you how happy I am to hear that magda got out of that situation unscathed.
I had a similar incident when I was young and foolish with a guy who had just gotten out of the Marines. Big boy- very big. We were parking and making out- like young people are wont to do. It got a little too touchy feely and I asked him to take me home. Next thing I know he has me pinned down on the seat, inches from my face telling me I’m a cock-tease and he didn’t like it very much. I’m an assertive person, but I can tell you I went weak with panic. The ONLY thing that got him off me was my threat to go immediately to our mutual friend (who was a cop and liked me an awful lot) as soon as he was done. He let me up and laughed at me for “overreacting”, saying he wasn’t going to really do anything- no need to tell our friend.
I got out of the car and walked to a phone to call for a ride home. I got away OK, but I’ll never ever forget how awful it was being held down like that. Your mind immediately goes into this panic mode. I felt sick reading this part of the OP
because I thought maybe you didn’t get as lucky as I did.
I’m so glad you ended up OK, too magda. I really am.
[aside]Yeah, a blowjob for some aggressive motherfucker out of sympathy- that’s a great idea. What the hell is wrong with people?? [/aside]
Tha fuck-she’s not interested in his lousy foreplay, “subtle” rape threats, and attemps at whiny manipulation, but because he’s nerdy he should get a Scooby snack?
I think most guys have at one time or another pleaded a little for nookie, but “no” means no. The fact that even after she told him in no uncertain terms that it wasn’t going to happen, and she STILL had to push him off, is proof that there’s nothing endearing about the guy. He’s an asshole who could probably benefit from having a sexual assault charge leveled at him.
Before you try an empathize with this guy, try empathizing with what SHE went through. The fact that she didn’t have him arrested is a BIG favor for him.
I wasn’t going to post to this thread. I’ve read it all but I didn’t think I had anything to add. Well, I’ve decided I do. It’s a bit like what everyone else has posted, but just from my POV. So here goes:
alonicist, when you first posted, I kind of chuckled. A blow job for the heartbroken male, that sounds like a swell idea! I really didn’t think that much of it because so many others were making sarcastic remarks in a jovial manner.
Then some of the other posters called you on it, saying they found it a bit offensive. At that point you had three choices:
Do nothing
Apologize for crossing the line
Continue the “joke” further and try in vain to justify your beliefs.
When you chose #3, my jaw crashed through the floor. It tried to go futher down with every response you made, but the people working the next floor down got a bit perturbed.
Do you not see the problem? Seriously, I’m asking you. At what point did you decide that your self esteem problems even remotely justified sexual favors from non-willing females? The opposite sex isn’t a soup kitchen, there to warm up and keep content the downtrodden of society.
This board is designed to fight ignorance. There is a lot of ignorance we fight on the boards that, truth be told, has no real bearing on our day to day lives. We’ll never need to know how far down a penguin can dive or whether the Enterprise is better than the star destroyers. But I can’t possibly think of something more useful than knowing how to reasonably treat a member of the female gender. You see them every day!
Have you ever known a person who has been raped, alonicist? It destroys them. They can’t trust any more. And you can’t tell them to trust you because you’re different. That’s what the last guy said too.
You aren’t owed anything. You don’t deserve anything. The people on this board that have responded to you aren’t joking when they say that. I don’t know what more there is to say.
Ender, thanks for so eloquently summing up my disjointed thoughts.
I am a bit touchy when it comes to this subject since I have had friends in this exact same situation who did not fare so well. When I hear about it happening to someone I know, I tend to go ballistic. Like the old saw about a man with a hammer seeing every problem as a nail, I see one solution to guys who do that and it involves ER visits. It’s my solution, not the only one or even the right one, but it has served me well.
Mag, I am so glad it ended all right and even more relieved you understand it is not indicative of all men.
Thank you, Mr. Chance. Maybe if we somehow combine my genes with those of alonicist, we could create a normal male – not too pushy, not too wimpy.
However, as info … I cannot STAND to see someone forcing attention on another person when it’s unwanted. So, should the person who molested magdalene somehow be reading this thread – rest assured, sport, that if you ever do something like that to ANY female when I’m around, you’ll have to contend with me. I’m wimpy up to a point – beyond that point I’m not responsible for my actions.
Hey everyone, thanks for the kind words and offers to kick some ass - it’s nice to know that I could mobilize my own private army at any given moment, and I’ll keep you guys in mind if I need to storm any castles.
I’m gonna ask the mods to close this thread before the line for sympathy bj’s gets any longer (and starts including posters less cool than Scylla ;)).
Sorta a hijack, but I thought I’d share a few things my sister taught me, from a self-defense class she took. They’re often pretty simple, and overlooked, but I thought they were pretty cool ideas. . .
Cleaning products are just as effective as mace. Can you imagine getting a facefull of Windex? Ouch. Spray bottles, spray cans, whatever can make a great point defense weapon. And if you are concerned about hurting him too much, then you might not understand the term “life threatening situation”.
Car keys can pack a wallop of a punch. Take the keyring into the palm of your hand, make a fist, and let the keys hang through between your fingers - sorta looking like Freddy Krueger. Whack him hard in a softer body part (like the sides of the ribcage) and he should get the message. Lollipops work the same way. . .
If someone is pinning you down or holding you, don’t try to free yourself. Land a blow somewhere. It may just stun him enough to loosen up his grip.
Testicles. If you can reach 'em, grab and twist. People usually just whack 'em, which gives a shot of pain. Hold 'em and sqeeze for max pain. (I’m hurting just typing this)
Noise noise noise!! Even if it’s in your own house or apartment, yell yer head off! Shock value or embarrasement may get him off you so you can get away.
What she basically told me was to stun him just enough so you can break free to run. 9 times out of 10, yer not going to want to re-engage the enemy. Just get away from him and call the cops. . .
I know nobody asked me, and please don’t mistake this as a “blame the victim” attitude, but these situations can be avoided if you don’t let the guy inside after the date unless you do want to have sex. It’s your apartment, and its up to you who can enter it. There’s no reason for him to expect to come in and spend time with you, because you were just out on a date spending time already. The only trick is for you to decide if you’re going to have sex with him before you get back home.
And as for the consenusal kissing situations that get out of hand: I all you want is kissy-face, don’t do it in places that are private enough for a rape. You’re safe in a crowded park or at the beach or along the sides of a dance club - public smootching is an accepted part of the ambiance of these places. And your young man will be restrained by the embarassment of having a hard-on in public.
This won’t protect you from the psychos out there, but then social conventions are like padlocks - they only keep the basically decent people from crossing the line. And these conventions can only work if you gals are unambivalent about your sexual independence, which you now seem to be.
inviting some one into your home is **not ** the same as inviting them into your vagina. Please repeat as necessary.
Kissing is not a guarentee sexual intercourse or anything else. repeat as necessary.
Mags was **very ** direct about what she wanted. She told the guy “no” and asked him to leave. he didn’t. She is in no motherfuckingway responsible for his subsequent criminal behavior.
I’ll let those who are better at flaming continue (unless the thread gets closed before then)
If women never the leave the house, and keep their doors padlocked, that makes the chances of a rape much less.
Perhaps they should wear long flowing modest gowns that completely cover their body so that their figure is hidden. Perhaps they should cover their faces as well.
If they do not allow any of their body to be exposed than there is less of a chance that they will corrupt any men by driving them into a sexual frenzy with their impure wanton womanliness. After all, it’s not the man’s fault that a woman is luring him into these egregious acts against his will by seducing him with her lustfull appearance and demeanor.
To enforce these things we should make sure that women don’t have jobs which give them responsibility over men. Otherwise they may corrupt them.
We should limit the education of females as well, so they do not try to lead us from the true path.
After all women are unclean and seductive. They need to be controlled.
Yes, I am sure this is just the thing to do.
Hey wring, you could do your own flaming, but apparently you expect someone else to take care of that for you, just as you expect this world to be cleared of rapists if you simply “repeat as necesarry” whatever rightous aphorism strikes you.
Yes, I read the prior posts. Did you read my statement that I was not blaming the victim? Without a word judgmental of the OP, I point out ways to avoid consequences and you twist that to mean I said she deserved it. You wear your moral indignation like a clown suit. Now climb off your attitude and take some practical advice. No, “inviting someone into your home is not the same as inviting them into you vagina,” but in the off-chance that the relative stranger you’re dating doesn’t know that, don’t invite him into your home until you know him better. “Please repeat as necessary” all you want, but what is really necessary is what works. I’ve got locks on my doors at home and have taken out medical and auto insurance. Should I be flamed for that too? I know “kissing is not a guarantee of sexual intercourse.” I also know that driving in Florida with rental plates wasn’t a waiver your right not to be robbed and shot. But rather than wallow in moral indignation while doing nothing else, Florida simply still got rid of rental plates and robberies declined.
But wring takes the high road. If my wife or daughter is raped, it will be such a comfort for them to post to this message board and have wring post back that the assailant was a jerk. That seems to be all you can offer.
I was just thinking the same thing, SCYLLA. There’s a Pit thread going about the Taliban destroying statues in Afghanistan with some links to how the Taliban “protect” their women; sounds like it’d be right up SLITHY’s alley.
It could also be avoided if you don’t go out with the guy unless you do want to have sex. And don’t make eye-contact unless you want to have sex – that will avoid it, as well.
What utter bullshit. By this rationale, if a guy invites me out for a movie and dinner, I’d better not stick around for dinner because he’s already spent time with me at the movie, which means he must be planning to fuck me on the restaurant table.
The very idea that a woman must avoid any place that’s “private enough for a rape” – even her own home – or run the risk of being attacked is both flabbergasting and insulting. A man should recognize that “no” means “no,” regardless of location.
And yet, despite your faith in “social conventions,” you manage to totally discount that most ancient social convention: The prohibition against assaulting a person in their own home.
Bullshit. Ambivalent or unambivalent, no man has the right to partake of my sexual favors unless or until his gets an explicit go-ahead from me. And we’re women, not gals, okay?
The point is that SHE SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO AVOID IT!!! Shit, she could have avoided it by taking a big knife and castrating the loser, but somehow I’m guessing you’d be less in favor of that.
It will be a heck of a lot more comforting than going to Hubby/Dad and having him implicitly blame them – yes, I said blame them, you’re protestations that that’s not what you’re doing notwithstanding – for inviting the guy into their apartment in the first place. I can just see your response: “You were raped? Well, gee, honey, you could have avoided that if you hadn’t let the guy in, you know.”
Slithy Tove, I know you are trying to give some helpful, common sense advice for avoiding bad situations. So I’m not gonna flame you. Much. I can’t argue that if I’d never let him in my apt. that the whole thing wouldn’t have happened. But I can argue that my inviting him in isn’t license for him to become “Gropey, The Amazing Barnacle Boy.”
I bristle at your suggestion that once a guy is inside my apartment, he could reasonably assume that he’s “in like Flynn” and that it’s my fault for inviting him there (for a pot of TEA) in the first place. And I take issue with your smug, “I told you so” attitude - there is this underlying feeling of “well, if you weren’t such a cocktease and kept your smooching to PDA, these things wouldn’t happen” about your post.
I like living in this time period. Maybe things were simpler in the 1950’s (where you’ve clearly beamed in from) when “nice girls didn’t.” I’m appreciative of my freedom to fuck and suck when and how and with whom I please. And honestly, I’d rather risk the occasional icky gropefest and mixed signals than treat everyone as if they are a potential rapist or live in a plastic illusion of safety. It would be a sad day when I became afraid to invite someone in for a cup of tea.
I had asked the mods to close the thread, as I felt we were just repeating ourselves, but I guess it’s good it stayed open a little longer.
Or, to put it more simply, without all the “who invites who in where” bullshit:
My house, my couch, my pussy, my rules.
Your house, your couch, still my pussy, still my rules.
Follow the rules, you might get lucky. Eventually. Or even tonight. Don’t, and the cops will be peeling the shreds of your balls from beneath my fingernails (Yay, forensic evidence!) while the ambulance takes you away.
Slithy I don’t know you at all. Assume you don’t know me at all, either. I don’t generally “flame” anybody, and frankly rarely swear here.
I referred to others who would flame you since I expected that others would find your post as offensive as I did.
I did, in fact, see that you said that you didn’t ‘intend to blame the victim’, however in the rest of your post, you did exactly that, suggesting that if she wished to avoid such criminal attention in the future, she not invite some one into her house unless she intended to fuck him. Let me ask you - when the plumber comes to call, should she ask for a reduction in fees or require that he attempt to clear the drain from the driveway?
Scylla:Yes, I am sure this is just the thing to do.
Scylla, I don’t care if you are all wrong about national politics, I like you. I take back every mean thing I ever said to you, including the one in this post.
A “moron” would expect that incidences of rape are a common during housecalls by tradesmen such as plumbers as they are after dates when loutish young men expect sexual favors. I’m sure police records would prove otherwise.
I won’t call you a moron for making that claim. I think you used that as an analogy to make your argument. I doubt anyone would agree with your analogy if they compared both situations.
No, rapist are not supressed by embarassment, but they do need to get you alone. They know “no means no,” but what do you do if “no” only makes his dick harder? My point was that it is always a risk to let a new date into your home. “Point” as in “pointing to a fact.”
I deny that I blamed Magdeline for the incedent. None of you has shown me how I’ve done this and none of you will. She states that she’s asked the mods to close this thread, so I will respect that and offer no more argument as if this closure has already taken place. But I will state what are clearly facts:
Clearly, I was compared to the Taliban; I was compared to Magdeline’s mother, which I hopew is much less worse; I was chastised for calling women “gals,” which is the female variant of “guys,” and no more than that; I was accused of “beaming in” from the 1950 (as if that was some mythical Ozzie & Harriet realtime when nobody was ever raped and no woman engaged in casual sex).
In short, you small-minded, self-righteous blatherskites treated me the same way I, twenty years ago, treated people who’d had more opportunity to see how things are. That is surely a fact. And an even scarier fact is that I am considered a radically open-minded person among my fellow age-group. Allow me to gloat now, since I won’t be around to do so in another twenty years.
