((Isabelle))
Isabelle - Please scroll up and reference BMalion’s post. As a psychologist I can say this will send the messege. Clean out his room and pack a neat suitcase for him. You need to be strong cognitively, and beat him with his mental muscle match. Remain calm at all times, do not talk down to him in any way, and be loving. He will probably cuss and throw a fit seeing his belongings all packed up, but be nice. Continue this, he will not like you very much, but deep down he will hear you in his unconscious mind. Trust me, he’ll hear you. He’ll hear you even more when he’s living on the floor of a friends house or in a halfway house. Stay loving, and be nice, and in time he will grow out of it.
p.s. - Stay strong for your own peice of mind.
Call probation right now, demand the name of someone who will take responsibility for his case, and demand the name of their supervisor. Make them prove to you that whatever action they deem appropriate is done.
Why did you call him to remind him? Doesn’t he know? What are you getting out of that? (these are rhetorical unless the curfew is a new thing). The point is, you’re treating him like either a child or an idiot, either way you’re treating him like someone who needs his mommy to remind him; not that he was right to hang up on you, but were you surprised he did?
next time don’t nag, just make him aware that you’ll be calling probation if he breaks his probation agreement, and then do it.
You can’t change him, but you can show him that you’re a responsible person and that will give him his best chance at wanting to change.
I fully disagree with having two thugs remove him from the house BTW, you’re setting yourself up to be on an episode of COPS if you do that, may as well make sure he’s not wearing a shirt.
Well I just paid the middle son a fair price to pack up and clean out 17 year old’s room. I’m putting his stuff in the garage.
I just called the cell phone place to cancel the phone but even though it based on my credit, he is the user so only he can shut off service.
I am not going to try and contact 17 year old. But I am going to see if his 22 year old sister can keep tabs on him for me.
This is all I can handle for one day.
1 - he is a minor. He can’t legally be bound to any contract. Did you point that out to the cell phone people?
2 - if you withdraw your credit, does he qualify on his own? You might want to point THAT out as well.
You need to get in contact with a P.O. or someone who can get him assigned to a new caseworker, pronto. With all due respect, I think that’s the most important thing you can do right now. Why? Because the consequences of his actions need to come swiftly & unequivocally & because if he violates as a minor, it’s on your back.
In addition: I understand that you probably want someone who’s not law enforcement to “keep tabs” on your son, but IMHO, it’s not a good idea to ask his siblings to handle that job (or the job of helping move the kid out):
Point the first: It’s not the responsibility of your other kids to keep an eye on this kid, help you move him out of the house, etc.
I suspect that when a parent “asks” his/her children to do something, the kids generally interpret it as the giving of a directive rather than the asking of a favor (i.e. “Could you please take out the garbage?” being code for “I want you to take out the garbage”). Therefore, what you see as “asking” your 22 year-old to keep an eye on her brother may be interpreted by her as a directive/command/order.
I know that family is supposed to look out for one another, but this situation isn’t the same as an eleven year-old girl yelling at the neighborhood bully for picking on her six year-old brother at the playground. This is a legal issue & a family issue that mainly concerns you & your son; your other kids shouldn’t be asked to be responsible in any way for their brother, as he has a parent who is legally capable of doing so.
Point the Second: Asking your other children to keep an eye on your boy, move his stuff, etc. may breed resentment toward you: Like I said, he’s not their responsibility. Also, he may pull them to “the dark side”, talking about how unfair you & your rules are, etc. That, you don’t want.
Point the Third: Asking your children to help you out may, conversely, breed resentment toward him. His siblings may feel that they’re getting screwed by having to babysit him, check up on him, move his stuff, etc.
I don’t say all of this without some knowledge: I’m physically disabled & the elder of two siblings. My sister was asked by me (& by my parents, to some extent) to accept a lot of weirdness & do a lot of things for me because of my medical situation in early childhood & it bred resentment. We cleared it up, but better to avoid it if possible.
Good luck, once again.
I agree with cosmopolitan about the resentment between siblings. I had to give up every extracurricular activity I wanted to be involved in to tote my brother around. I hated that, resented him and loathed my parents. My brother also resented having someone who wasn’t his mother acting like she was. Unfortunately it all fell on my head when he didn’t do things so I made sure he knew how I felt when I got into trouble for his screwing around.
I know you don’t want him to get into trouble with the police but its too late for that now. You need to be pushier about getting him a probation officer before it all falls on you as his custodial parent.
And I don’t understand the whole cellphone issue. If it is on your credit you should be able to cancel it. I’d find a supervisor or be prepared to have it defaulted on by your son.
Good luck. I can’t imagine any of this being easy. I remember the days of picking up my brother off the street when I would find him wandering and dragging him to school/court/wherever.
Isabelle, re the cellphone, I bet you got the runaround from some flunky making minimum wage plus commissions. You may have to get all formal on them and keep asking to talk to supervisors. It might take an hour or more. I would be truly shocked if the person who is responsible for paying the bill is not able to have it cancelled. I doubt it’s legal. People can and do parcel out all kinds of misinformation over the phone – phone companies are one of the worst at this, second only to power utilities and the IRS.
Good luck, still thinking of you often.
I have to say I agree with some of the above on the subject of getting siblings to help you. They may be up to it, they may not say they mind, but it’s not helping your relationship with any of the kids. My mom used to “ask my advice” all the time about how to deal with my sister, and all it ultimately did was frustrate us both. I think it’s worth it to avoid involving the sibs as much as you can – especially the younger one. It does sound like you’re getting exhausted by all this, though, so I can see why you would ask them to help; just not sure it’ll be a good thing in the long run.
Isabelle, I agree with everyone saying you need to contact his probation office and see that someone takes over the case. In our office people cover other officers clients until a replacement is hired. If they keep saying they can’t help you, ask for the supervisor. This really is technically their responsibility, especially if he is violating his probation. Leave numerous messages. Be a pest. Make them do their job.
Once they talk to you, tell them you want him out of the home. You’re finished, through, whatever, but he just cannot live with you any more.
Have you reported him to the police as a run away? That is usually the first thing our Officers tell parents to do when one of the clients has run off.
He has violated his probation (by violating his curfew). Now you said in the other thread that he was no longer on Intensive Supervised Probation, So I don’t know that the regular Probation office would issue a warrant for his arrest, I’m not sure what their procedures are. They may do an Order to Appear, in which case if he doesn’t appear in court, then they would issue a warrant.
I hope this works out for you. I know you have been very frustrated.
juvenile emancipation by state:
http://www.jlc.org/home/JLC@Work/info/FAQ/emancipUSA.html
I think another poster has mentioned you’re in Florida. If not, disregard this link:
http://www.floridalawhelp.org/
(This is a list of free legal services/information in Florida.)
Good luck!
Isabelle, I think I’ve mentioned before that I was you kid about 20 years ago. The only think that will wake him up from his resentment of you (and that’s what it is…don’t think otherwise) is a strong dose of ‘being on his own’.
So cut off the cell phone…it’s on your credit. Worse come to worse tell them you won’t be paying. If it automatically hits your credit card tell your CC company not to accept any more debits from them. That bit about ‘it’s in his name so only he can cut it off’ is bullshit. That’s some flunky who’s job it is to do ANYTHING to prevent someone from cancelling service.
Then make sure someone from juvenile service or the probation office take charge of the case.
Really, it’s for the best. If he’s not respecting your authority or the authority of the court system he’s setting himself up for a great fall.
It’s like the police psychologist told my mom when I got the handcuffs on me: “We’re lucky we got to him before he knocked over a liquor store.”
This is absolutely the best you can do. So be strong and do it.
I’m really annoyed by the problems you’re having with the probation office. It’s not like you need any more trouble in your life.
Good luck. I admire you for taking these difficult steps.
The prodical son returned home last night and BEFORE curfew.
He said “what do I have to do to get a ride to work?” He said that he spent the night trying to find a place to sleep and then he ended up sleeping with someones dog. He said he didn’t like being away from home.
I had taken the advice of some on this list and told the 15 year old sibling DO NOT REMOVE 17 year olds stuff from room. So nothing was changed when he returned home.
This morning I was able to get information on his new probation officer only she won’t be in the office until after Labor Day.
I’m still working on the cell phone.
Thanks everyone for advice and prayers. MUCH NEEDED!
I have nothing to offer but my best wishes, Isabelle! But this latest bit is encouraging. Take care.
So what did you tell him?
I told him he had to have his chores done before I went to work in the morning (which consisted of cleaning a bathroom and picking up a livingroom) He did the jobs perfectly.
I also said he had to pay me for gas.
I forgot to post earlier that I traced a bus line within a 5 min walk from his shop. If he takes the bus he will have to walk 3 miles to the first stop and take a series of busses to get to the city of his place of employment. I do not know if the times of the bus will work with the time he needs to be at work, but I am going to call this morning.
Actually I am going to call my son and leave the bus number on his cell phone. Then withOUT him knowing I am going to call the bus and get the information too. This way it doesn’t look like “Mommy to the rescue again”
I did tell him this morning that my giving him rides is “temporary” and that he needs to make other arrangements. He didnt’ say anything.
Did you wipe his rear end too?
It IS mommy to the rescue again, only I think you’re not rescuing, you’re controlling. You calling the bus company is an extension of something YOU want, not what he wants, but what do you want? Do you want him to take the bus? Do you just want to stop driving him yourself? If it’s the former, you’re making a decision for him that he can make for himself and will resent you for making for him. If it’s the latter, leave it at telling him you’re not driving him. Maybe he can text message the bus company on his cell phone for information.
I get the strong sense that all of this has to do with your desire to control him, keep him close because you need him more than is healthy for a mother to need a son.
I’m really trying not to be critical of you here, but I see this type of thing alot. I don’t think advice about the mechanics of what to do when your son is acting up is doing you much good until you deal with your own stuff first.
I do NOT want to drive him anymore!
I can’t wait for the 5 weeks to be up so he can move in with big sister.
that’s good, but can you “let go of the steering wheel?”
It’s true what you say GRECK (to an extent) that I want to control him. He has gotten himself into a lot of trouble with the law which has caused me a lot of money, a lot of time out of work and a lot of sweat. Ultimately he is my responsibility until he is 18. Since he can’t seem to make good decisions, I find myself making decisions for him. I often try to make him think he is the one making the decisions when in fact it is me that has done so. (Just so he doesn’t think I am going to wipe his butt everytime he poops)
In some ways I am enabling him but I weigh “enabling” with “keeping out of trouble” and “keeping out of trouble wins”