The problem with that is that you’re increasing the likelihood that he’ll get in more trouble.
He knows you’re manipulating him (or trying), and he’s frustrated by it.
Fact: You cannot stop him from getting in trouble.
It sounds like you can’t convince him not to either.
The best you can do is create an environment wherein he has the opportunity to look at himself in an unbiased way and make the decisions for himself based on what he ideally wants rather than his reactions to his relationship with you (simplifying here, obviously I’m not blaming you for his problems, it’s just that you’re the only part of his landscape over which you have any control).
To do your part in creating such an environment: become as responsible a person as you possibly can.
To become a responsible person: Learn about boundaries. I still maintain that this goes back to his father’s departure, probably your relationship with that person or your father was abusive and/or involved alcoholism. Someone taught you to be controlling, this is the type of situation where people usually learn how to have diffuse boundaries, how to take responsibility for others, how to enable a disease, etc. -these are just guesses, food for thought.
I think I wouldn’t have struggled so much with being his “friend” and would have focused more on being his “parent”
I would have prevented him from seeing his father who is abusive/druggie/alcoholic at any cost.
Currently I have an enjunctiion against him until my son is 18. It has been 5-6 or 7 years since he has seen him. But when he did see him it was unhealthy.
I would have drawn a line in the sand and when I said “don’t cross it” I woulnd’t have erased it and made another line and said “don’t cross this one”
I would have found someone, somewhere to help me find programs to keep him busy instead of idle.
Although he has many flaws. He has a giant heart. He is smart although he is not making good decisions. (He graduated a year early)
He wants to be a fireman and is going to enroll in the program but you must be 18 and he has a way to go. I am not sure how I am going to foot the bill but I feel it is something I have to do for him.
Not to sound harsh, but you can’t. You can only focus on what you can do now. No more friendship, no more “well, make sure it’s done by then, well, OK, another week,” no more mapping out the bus route for him because you’re tired of giving him rides at a price he sets. It has to stop now. His recent apparent cooperation is nothing more than temporary appeasement because he knows how to manipulate you.
You need to say no to rides, no to bus mapping, no to anything beyond basic survival services as required by law. It’s hard (really hard), but it’s all you can do. You absolutely need to call the probation office and advise them you need a probation officer NOW, and you’re not going to hang up until you get one because your son is in violation of his probation. You also need to call that cell company and say that you will not hang up until your service is cancelled. As a minor, he cannot legally sign a contract, and therefore the contract is unenforceable. If you signed the contract, then the phone company is lying to you that you cannot cancel it.
Also, IANAL, but AFAIK the requirements for minor emancipation in Florida are a steady job sufficient for self-support (and $350 - $500 / week is enough in this state) and a high school diploma or equivalent. Find a legal aid office to help you if you want to pursue this further.
Finally, I agree with the others that you should not involve the siblings, as this is between you, him, and the state.
This Floridian is pulling for you. Please let us know how things go.
Ok last night before going to bed…I handed 17 year old bus schedule and bus fare and reviwed his route. He was being forced to get up at 4:30AM in order to walk 3 miles to catch the bus.
This morning I heard the alarm at 4:30. It made me wide awake (which ticked me off) I laid in bed for an hour fuming that I was inconveninced again. I got up at 5:30 to wake up siblings and what did I find? But 17 year old on couch sleeping!
So that left me with a decision.
I had to choose.
A. Go back to bed until 6:30 then wake him up and take him to work.
B. Let him sleep and go to work at 7:45 never to disturb him
I chose B. I feel guilty. He could lose his job over this and it would be my fault. One one hand I feel selfish. Where do I draw the line on “my duty as a parent” and “as a favor for a child?”
I don’t want to drive him anymore! I am tired of getting up an hour earlier every morning. Driving in traffic 5 hours a day. Getting home after 8PM each night, getting up early on my days off and on holidays.
When he first accepted this job he did it without consulting me. He just assumed I would drive him. When I found out where the place was (7 or 8 months ago) I told him then that he was going to have to find another form of transportation that I wasn’t going to be doing this all the time. Months went by and he never tried any other form…although he asked around at work and no one lives in our city to get him.
If he loses his job not only will it be violating his probation, but it will be letting down his 22 year old sibling. He is supposed to be moving in with her Oct 1. She is counting on him as a room mate.
No, it would be his fault for not getting up. I think there is a lesson to be learned here: “If I don’t get up, then I won’t get to work on time.”
Can you drive him three miles to the bus stop? I know you don’t want to “enable” him, but driving five or ten minutes is better than driving for hours. At night he can walk home. Walking three miles should take him no more than an hour.
[sub]IANA parent, and I haven’t really been following these threads very closely.[/sub]
If he took this job it is his responsibility to find away to get there and home. If he loses his job becauise he wouldn’t get up when his alarm went off so he could be at work on time, that’s his fault, not yours.
Don’t drive him. It’s his problem, not yours. If he loses his job…well, honestly it doesn’t make any difference to YOU right now, since he doesn’t help you out as it is. So that’s his problem too.
I know that if it were my son, I couldn’t say this, but since he’s yours, I’ll say it for you: Let him hit rock bottom. I wouldn’t work so hard to make him learn a lesson; don’t work at all and he’ll learn it just as well.
I guess I didn’t understand the distances. I thought he had to get up at 04:30 so that he would have time to walk three miles to the bus stop. Allowing 90 minutes to walk there (providing for dawdling tim) would put him at the bus stop at 06:00. Or if you assume a three-mph pace with no “cushion”, then he’d be there at 05:30. But then, I’m forgetting that he needs to shower and get dressed in the morning. What time does the bus get to the stop? If it gets there at 06:00, then you could sleep until 05:30 and drive him to the stop. (I get up at 04:50, BTW; so sleeping until half past five would be “sleeping in” for me.)
In any case, if you were only to drive him to the stop, then you shouldn’t have to wake up at 04:30.
By 17 he should be able to wake up with an alarm clock.
If he is responsible enough to have the job then he should be able to get himself to work on time without your intervention. Where will he be when he lives with sis? Will she take over as mommy and wake him up for the bus?
The biggest favor (IMO) you can do him is let him grow up. He has to learn personal responsibility. Enabling his behavior does not help him in the long run.
It sucks for you to have to finally make him stand on his own but it sounds like the way things were sucked too or you wouldn’t be unhappy with the situation and trying to change things. We can’t go back and undo the past but we can work towards tomorrow.
I won’t tell you what I had for responsibility at 17 but I sure wish it was clean 2 rooms and pay some gas money.
Tanookie - you sum it all up with these three sentences. Then again I usually heed your words, they are usually very kindred and well thought out. Isabelle is in a dodgey situation and is having difficulty with tough love. I believe there will come a day when it will simply inevitably happen. Either Jail, or 18th b-day, or living w/sister… I do want to think positively about the future for her, she’s nearly at the top of this mountain…
Oh and Isy - All little boys can behave when they want something…
Hi, Isabelle. First of all, let me say that I feel for you, Sister. But I have one thing to ask:
I’m wondering what will happen when he is living with his sister. Will he suddenly shape up and start budgeting money for rent and helping with housework? How will he get to work then?
I ask because my fear is that even when he’s out of your house, he’ll still be in your hair, because your daughter (I’m assuming . . . ?) will come to YOU when the burden of living with him becomes too heavy.
I’ve never been in this situation (and truly wish you the best of luck–hang in there!), but I feel like if I were the sister in this situation, and 17-y.o. became too much for me to handle, I’d do my best to foist him back on YOU.
Immature, perhaps, and I sincerely hope that doesn’t happen, but do you have a plan if it does?
I don’t know if he will change his ways when he lives with big sister. He wants to be a “man” and acts like a “man” when he is with her. Maybe he is more mature around her…I just don’t know.
My 17 year old respects the big sister better then me. <sad I know>
Isabelle that is not sad at all. As a matter of fact it is quite normal. My two brothers and one sister were always tight knit and still are. We have always been closer to each other than with our parents. I don’t think this is the norm but certainly not abnormal.
It is 10:45 and the 17 Year Old has not called me yet. I have been waiting to hear from him…either "Why didn’t you wake me up?..or “I need a ride”…or something, anything.
But instead my phone won’t ring. I do not like NOT knowing what is going on in his head. I’m worried the hate he is going to have for me when I get home.
I try double hard since he doesn’t have a father in the picture and it seems like no matter how hard I try…I let him down.
Get a therapist. Get one with whom you can really explore the effect the boy’s father had on you, your own parents, your birth order, all the alcoholics you’ve ever known, anything that contributes to your current need to take care of/control others.
Maybe try alanon, they’re pretty good at helping people figure out boundaries.
You have some investment in keeping this kid in diapers and it’s contrary to his and your health.
Until you learn to deal with that, you’re never getting anywhere with this kid.
Stop thinking about this situation in terms of what he’s going to learn, start thinking about it in terms of how you’re going to be a responsible person. He’s perfectly capable of drawing his own conclusions if given a predictable and safe environment. Your job is to be a responsible person in that environment.
You did the right thing this morning. Believe that.