The fuckers gassed a dog...

The BBQ Pit
21

RE: Texas retardation execution
Mad dogs are “innocent” too, but we shoot them anyway because we’d rather they not end up chewing some child’s face off. Not saying that execution was morally right, just that it’s not completely out of the realm of our society’s standard reaction to violent beings.

Let’s also note that our (the US’s) animal shelters gas millions of unwanted pets each year for no reason other than that they’re inconvienent to keep alive. To be honest, the death of Osama’s test subject strikes me as a bit less offensive, if only because it served some ultimate purpose–however distasteful that purpose may be.

bella

22

Infants and animals don’t understand motive.

I think that’s what makes it tough for me. In their mind, (the dogs), the sufferning isn’t justified in anyway, (not that I think it would be justified if the could understand the purpose of the torture). The dogs didn’t threaten these people, and yet these people are killing them slowly and treating them horribly.

23

But they didn’t die in a humane way.

Sorry, I didn’t

24

Something that no one’s mentioned here – according to this Salon article, strict Muslims consider dogs to be unclean, and thus will avoid any contact with them.

From the article, I get the impression that many in the Muslim world think of dogs the way Westerners think of insects. Many of us spray bugs with chemicals not too different than those Al Qaida appear to be messing around with, but no one seems to raise too big a fuss about it.

Don’t take the previous paragraph to suggest that I’m OK with killing dogs – I’m just trying to point out the cultural differences that may underlie OBL’s choice of test subjects.

25

I’ve stayed away from footage of that, because it’d piss me off.

And if you think I’m a bad person for being pissed off by that, you piss me off too.

I’d be more pissed off if they were gassing children to test their weaponry. So get off your damn high horse.

And for a slight hijack: Belladonna, I’m almost certain that you’re wrong that millions of dogs get gassed in US shelters every year. CO, the most common euthanasia gas, is strongly recommended against by most animal welfare organizations because animals often suffer when killed with Carbon Monoxide. I believe that the vast majority of euthanized animals in the US are killed by an injection of sodium pentobarbitol, which kills almost instantaneously and painlessly.

Euthanasia techs have an astonishingly shitty and difficult job to do. Comparing their work to Al Qaeda’s testing of nerve gas on dogs is unfair to the techs.

Not all killing of animals is equal.

Daniel

26

I wonder if one of the reasons people find clips like this so disturbing is because while we’re often exposed to images of violence against humans in television programmes and movies, it’s far more rarely that we see graphic depictions of animals dying. Just a thought.

27

Yes, we should just sit there like assholes and not develop any weapons biological or otherwise to defend ourselves.

:rolleyes:

28

If you keep making faces like that, your face is going to freeze that way.

Sorry, Lola, but there is no way you can classify “weapons of mass destruction” as “defensive”. (“Deterrent” maybe, but that’s not exactly the same thing.)

And in any case, that’s certainly NOT what Elvis was saying. He was simply talking about the difference between lethal and disabling biological agents.

29

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red-dragon60, I hope that having said that you are a vegetarian. If you are, then please disregard what I am about to say. If not, here’s what I think:

It makes no sense for anyone who eats meat to have such a ridiculous amount of sympathy for one dog that is killed. The only reason that dogs and cats are different than other animals is because people have arbitrarily attached human characteristics to them- but when it comes down to it, they’re still animals. People easily feel sorry for one dog but they feel nothing for the millions of cows and pigs that live horrible, cruel lives and are often killed inhumanely.Why does it make any sense to have compassion for some animals but not others?

And I won’t even start on the fact that you apparently feel more compassion for a dog then you feel for the human beings who suffer the same way on a daily basis :mad:

30

You know, it’s people like Rockford who make me understand what kind of person it takes to kill an innocent puppy the way Al Quada did.

31

Daniel–you’re probably right about the gas. I misspoke, and the point I was going for was that millions of animals are killed.

I know that euthanasia techs have a hard job. I work in medical research and am quite well acquainted with the task. It’s not one I’d wish on anyone. That being said, I don’t understand why it’s unfair to compare our routine destruction of scores of unwanted and experimental animals to a single dead dog.

We justify our actions as I’m sure they justify theirs, as a means to an end. And while we may disagree on what ends are worth the killing of an animal, it would be hypocritical to pretend that we are completely innocent of such acts.

bella

32

“What exactly would chemical and biological weapons be for, then?”

Um, for potential use against enemy armed forces? (U.S. policy forbids first strike usage of chemical weapons and we are a signatory to the U.N.'s Chemical Weapons Convention).

I have little doubt that the Taliban and their like-minded buddies would happily use such agents in attacks on civilians.

33

Just from that one quote? Wow.

I can understand the upset at seeing an animal suffer but in the same way that the media highlights this incident to get people riled up or highlights the distressing case of the two murdered girls in Suffolk, I can’t help feeling along with some others that your rage and effrontery are somewhat misplaced. Thousands of people go missing or disappear every year but there is no outcry. Why are they less deserving? They ain’t pretty? What?

There are huge numbers of animals destroyed every year around the world. Most of the time it’s because of the food chain so you could argue at least there is a point. When you consider that a great number of domesticated animals (dogs & cats in particular) are destroyed simply because people don’t care, you’ll perhaps understand why I am slightly skeptical about this umbrage.

You could argue that there is a point to what Al-Qaeda (sic) were doing here, testing poison gas. You’re horrified, do you think they give a particular shit? What if they got upset about our methods of destroying, say, cattle? Would you give a shit? Quid Pro Quo I guess.

I am not suggesting it’s wrong to be upset at the images, I was upset by them. But if you really want to see how casual people can be about cruelty in this regard take a look at this film when you get a chance.

The Animals Film Don’t panic, the link is just text. It is a film narrated by Julie Christie about Animal Rights. If you do take a look, remember that people where you live allow this to happen, and where I live too.

I apologise if this was somewhat abrasive but I just think the reactions are slightly off kilter.

34

I guess I’m in the minority when I say that I didn’t need this particular piece of evidence to demonstrate to me that OBL & Al Q are bad guys who do bad things?

that being said,

There’s cultural differences around the world re: dogs. We like them, think of them as pets, housemates, surrogate children in some cases. In other cultures, they’re vermin, in still others they’re lunch.

[sup]good thing it wasn’t a kitten[/sup]

35

I don’t think you’re in the minority wring. I cringed when a western media team bought a dog destined to be “lunch” from a restaurant in Korea during the World Cup and presented it to a soccer team as a mascot - in a nation where many more children would starve if people didn’t eat what’s available.

Yes, it’s horrible that these experiments were performed on the dog concerned, but how do people think we test our own biological and chemical agents (not to mention are pharmaceuticals)? Is our own testing some how more “noble” or “justifiable” because we have righteousness on our side?

36

Playing this video is a quite ordinary example of war propaganda, foisted upon the hearts & minds of the American public in support of the war on terrorism. Trumpeting a wicked deed of the enemy is such an old one I’m almost surprised people still fall for it.

As others have already alluded to, millions of animals suffer and die every year all across our human way of doing things. But show a few Afghanis ice a dog and some people act ready to join the Rangers.

37

Look you now, I’m getting very angry at all these people who seem to feel that someone who expresses sadness and anger over the death of an animal is somehow immune to the deaths of fellow humans. I agree with Poysyn’s sentiments- sometimes the most unexpected grief comes from the most unlikely source. And I agree with Guinastasia- the death by torture of an animal is compared by many, myself incuded, with the death by torture of a human child- both represent innocence and dependency that fellow adult humans do not, and the death of one of these is sometimes more heart-rending and rage-inducing.

Millions of animals are in fact killed in the US every year, often in horrifying ways, in biomedical research facilities, in industrial trials, and in shelters. Some say these deaths are justified, that they serve the greater good. Some disagree, and would argue we have no right to use our fellow creatures for our own ends. I agree that you cannot point any fingers at any other society for their use of animals- we in the US do the same, though we would like to think we don’t, and do our best to hide this unpleasant business from the public eye.

To me, any needless death is a tragedy, be it human or otherwise. Life is life, precious in any form it takes, and not to be disregarded or used lightly. All pain and suffering, of any living thing, causes me grief. The sense of irretrievable loss and sorrow I feel is the same at any death, for a human or a dog. Every death is to be mourned.

All this said, I do have to wonder- how can anyone be surprised at anything Al-Qaeda does? They have already proved themselves to be utterly disrespectful of life, even of their own. They have consistently shown a contempt for the lives of all things, and they are bent only on destruction. No action or word of theirs will ever surprise me again. Sadden me, enrage me, but never surprise. They are capable of anything, and will not shrink from any deed, no matter how odious or contemptible.

Somewhat off-topic: although I added shelters to my above list of places in which animals are routinely killed in numbingly large numbers, I feel you cannot really place any blame on shelter workers for the euthanasia of animals. It is in my mind akin to blaming the undertaker for the ravages of a plague- he is only cleaning up the mess. True fault lies with those who abandon their pets, who do not spay or neuter, and those who otherwise behave in an irresponsible and reprehensible manner towards another creature whose well-being they disregard, through cruelty, selfishness, or ignorance.

38

I just take this as a minor, if not trivial, addition to the mountain of evidence that says these people need to be killed. Promptly.

39

People comparing, even remotely, the death of a dog with the death of a children make me sick…

Plus, how do people believe western nations have tested their biological/chemical weapons, exactly?

A footage depicting a supposedly actual test of a biological weapon by Al Quaida is an interesting piece of new. The fact that a dog died in the process is amongst the least important things I can think of.

40

I don’t recall directing my post at anyone in particular. I thought I was being quite general. If I was talking about someone specific I would have said so. Sorry for any confusion.