Only if you are assuming that the Jedi are playing bloody knuckles with lightsabers.
Basically, though, the X-Men have handled large numbers of badarses far more skileld and tough than Jedi. And frankly, Lightsabers are dime-a-dozen in Marvel. Any two-bit supervillain can get his hands on half-a-dozen, but they almost never manage to hurt anyone with them.
First of all, let’s boot Yoda and Professor X to the curb. They’ve had their badass moments, but they primarily serve an advisory role and are not generally thought of as combatants. Also, no outright bad guys. Sorry, Vader and Magneto fans.
Now, let’s establish group size. This is easy for the Jedi. There are two of them. Planet getting invaded by evil federation? Dispatch two Jedi. President of the galaxy is kidnapped and a huge space battle is erupting right over the capital? Two Jedi. Said President is the most insanely evil man in existence? That calls for extraordinary measures: two pair of Jedi. Better not send the guy who best knows the chief, too. That might be an unfair advantage.
Now the X-Men. Typically the break into squads of about six per book, usually with a set personality and attack type represented. They are:
The Ranger: Often the leader, prissy speaker, fires ranged shots for the most part although this one can whip the tar out of you if you get too close. Cyclops and Storm are the most common rangers.
The Joker: Wiseacre melee fighter, antihero, hates rules. Wolverine’s a given these days. Gambit goes here too despite the “kinetic card” business. He likes that staff too much.
The Telepath: Knowing woman, sexy bod. Phoenix, White Queen, Psylocke, and I’m including Rogue here since she works by stealing memories.
The Acrobat: Lithe man, swift moving, agile and surprising but not terribly strong. Nightcrawler and Archangel.
The Strongman: Gentle giant, throws a lot of punches and people. Colossus, Beast.
This team of five is often supplemented by an additional entrant from any category and/or a newbie who has a hilariously useless power and gets captured a lot. There are a brace of X-Men who don’t fit any category, but there also not the All-Stars of the group, so if you can’t shoehorn Douglock into this scheme, don’t worry.
Jedi tend to work by sneaking around. They have to, they don’t have the numbers to support a large campaign. I imagine the two groups meet when the X-Men discover intruders and go investigate. Cornered, the Jedi lash out to throw the X-Men off balance - a few slashes and a Force push for the lot - then run. There follows a sequence where the X-Men pursue the Jedi until they reach a largish room where they make a stand.
Who wins? Odds favor the Jedi. They’re magicians; magicians are always the strongest in pulp fighting, because they don’t have an obvious upper limit. The Force gives them powers roughly equivalent to the Telepath, plus an almost instinctual precognitive warning system akin to Peter Parker’s Spider-Sense. They’re fighting with swords against mostly unarmed opponents. The X-Men try to immobilize first; Jedi almost always go for the kill right off.
The ranger’s shots - optic blasts, ice beams, lightning - are deflected by the lightsabers. If the Jedi deflect them into their opponents, the ranger’s actually making things worse. Precognition ensures barehanded Strongmen and Athletes are easily killed. Jokers are tougher, since they’re apt to have a healing factor or a weapon of some sort, but the Force push and telekinesis keep them at bay, and healing factors for massive injuries, like having an arm cut off, take time that isn’t available. Only the Telepath is a danger. If the Telepath doesn’t give an immediate advantage to the X-Men, she’s likely to find herself working alone and double-teamed. She’s as susceptible to telekinetically thrown items as they are and probably can’t take over the minds any more than they can use the mind trick on her.
Short of using a human wave attack, I don’t see the X-Men winning. One or two bloodied Jedi walk away from a room of smoking corpses.
Excellent post, don Jaime. 
It doesn’t hurt that you agree with me, of course, but I was impressed even before I saw your conclusion.
Sorry for the double post.
I’d add, in a general way, thay I think the discussion should focus on the characters and powers from the movies. Those are the versions which are familiar to almost everybody, and they provide a reasonable basis for comparison, as both sides are more limited in their capacity.
In other words, if the X-Men get Havok and Iceman (let alone Pheonix), then the Jedi get Clone Wars skills, and then we’re right back where we started. You don’t think Clone Wars Mace Windu could deflect (and redirect) Storm’s tornado, or even Iceman’s cold air? They were demi-gods in the cartoon.
I also endorse the don’s analysis. Good work.
Let’s see, no and no. Mace Windu may be on par with a gifted telekinetic. I’ll go so far as to say Pyslocke level, but he still is in no way equal to Storms weather control. I’ll say it again and hopefully it will sink in. Storm can control the weather patterns of an entire planet. Any sort of tk control Mace could use against the tornado would pale in comparison to Storms control. End of story.
On Iceman, you are misunderstanding the nature of his powers. This isn’t cold air (and by the way, he’s going to deflect cold air? How is he going to see it?). Iceman freezes the moisture in the environment. One moment there is no ice. The next moment, there is. Mace Windu would be a gag cube at Jabbas next party before he could get a chance to deflect anything. And I’ve already covered that Iceman is, for all intents and purposes, immortal. As long as there is moisture in the air, he can refreeze himself. Is Mace going to deflect the moisture off of an entire planet?
And by the way, I have seen the clone wars cartoon. I know how powerful the jedi are in that. They still don’t match up.
Now, on to Don Jaime <cracks knuckles>
I like the ground rules set up. Makes things easy to figure. However there are a couple of nits to pick. Jedi would not be classified as magicians. They would be much closer to psychic lite. They have some tk and mind powers, but it takes concentration to use well and they can’t whip them out all of the time.
These force powers are also nowhere near on par with the telepath. As I said before. The x-paths are specialists. They have much more training with their mind abilities, and their power levels are far greater than the jedi. It’s not even close to a contest.
Next, the danger sense. I’m going to be nice and ignore the third movie since we know how useful their danger sense was there. Even at it’s peak, it’s far closer to Daredevils radar sense than the spidey sense. Also, Spider Mans danger sense works so well because of his incredible agility. The jedi aren’t even close to his power levels in that regard, and that’s not a knock against them. Few characters in the marvel universe are as nimble. That bumps the danger sense down to far from omnipotent.
Lastly, your team archetypes are off. The current x-teams consist of: Storm/ Psylocke/ Wolverine/ Nightcrawler/Bishop/Phoenix/X-23 (or as I like to think of her, girlverine) in Uncanny X-Men. Plain X-Men has the big dog team of Havok/Polaris/Iceman/Gambit/Rogue/Wolverine/White Queen. Astonishing X-Men has Cyclops/Beast/Kitty Pryde/Colossus/Wolverine/White Queen.
Come to think of it, we could do Wolverine/White Queen in the Clone wars. 
Now, on to the scenario you played out. Sneaking up on the X-Men would be next to impossible. On a hostile planet, the x-path would be on active scan. Force users have shown no ability to hide their minds and certainly wouldn’t be able to do it from the telepathic powers of even the white queen or even Psylocke. Against Phoenix, there’s no chance. Wolverines enhanced senses would also pick them up by smell and sound, as would x-23. There goes the element of surprise.
As for the range attacks,some could not be deflected. Jedi can’t handle force lightning. Real lightning is much worse. Storm also has much more than lightning blasts at her disposal.Polaris magnetism and Icemans powers also can’t be deflected as there is nothing deflectable about them. Havok and Cyclops would start with a low level blast aimed at incapacitation which wouldn’t do a whole lot to an x-person if it hit. Once it’s shown that the blasts are deflectable, they would go wide scale or diversionary. I’m also wondering if Cyclops blasts would even be deflectable as they are “crimson beams of pure kinetic energy” and not like a laser or plasma blast.
The brawlers are the X-mens weak point, and not much of one. Wolverines adamantium would keep him from getting limbs lopped off. It’s unbreakable, remember. That drops the wounds down to deep cuts which are readily healable by his abilities. He also has martial arts training including sword fighting. There are reasons why he’s the best at what he does bub. Unable to finish him with force pushes alone, the jedi would have to enter melee range and would get crushed.
Nightcrawler is an accomplished sword fighter and acrobat in his own right, easily on par with a jedi and close to spider man in terms of flippitude. He can also teleport which is an instant ability.
Kitty Pryde is an accomplished martial artist and she is intangible. Her intangibility would ruin a light saber when it tried to hit her. The Jedi can’t hit her at all.
The weak links here are Gambit and Beast, who I didn’t count as a tank because his agility is more effective than his strength, which is somewhere between Captain America and Spider Man iirc. They’d likely go down out of the group.
On to the tankers of Colossus and Rogue. Light sabers simply wouldn’t be able to do the instacut thing. Their are too hard skinned for that. Force pushes wouldn’t effect them much either because of their super strength. The jedis agility would fall victim to the old “how could someone so big move so fast” cliche for Colossus and Rogue is really dang fast in her own way. I should explain that I counted rogue as a tanker because those are the abilities that come into play most in the comic.
I’ll post more later (I know, there’s more!!?!? :eek: ). Now it’s time to get ready for work. Hope I gave ya’ll something to chew on.
I haven’t seen any of the prequels, so I don’t really have anything to add to the discussion, but can I just say that the seriousness with which this is addressed is highly entertaining? I love these X vs. X threads.
Also, don’t forget Rogue has new fire powers. I’m still confused on whether she’s lost her old powers, or what, though.
One more quick thing, then I’m gone. Promise promise.
Can we please stop saying “the jedi are trained to kill” as if it means something? Not many X-Villains are fighting the x-men to give them a hug and a glass of cocoa before bedtime. They’ve fought against people who were trying to kill them once a month for the last umpteen years. It’s not some great asset the jedi have.
Last issue I’ve got shows Rogue to be the same flyin punchin power stealin southern belle she always was. Have we moved past the golgotha plot yet?
This was in her own book. She filched Sunfire’s fire powers and I thought they were just ordinary temporary powers, but the writer’s letter at the end was like “Rogue has new powers!” Me: “What?!?!” She also used them in a recent issue of adjectiveless (I haven’t been to ye olde comic book store in a couple weeks, not sure if it’s the most recent or the previous issue), and Havok wondered where she got those powers. (Of course, he was freaking there when she had them in her own book. Asking for consistancy is apparently too much to ask.)
X-men would have it. If you can reference Clone Wars you may as well take KotOR as canon, so you know that
[spoiler]KotOR I: Sunry was able to just walk up and shoot a jedi.
KotOR II: Atton was on a team of regular shmoes who specialized in killing jedi[/spoiler]
I don’t remember Sunry but Atton is a force adept, that is why you can train him
The X-Men win. Hands down. Hell, as much as I don’t liek him, Cyclops could take them out himself. Sure, a lightsaber might be able to block/defelct one of his small, pencil-thin blasts, but all he has to do is jsut rip off his visor and BLAM, full on force CONE. How can you block a twnety foot wide cone with a two-inch wide sword? You can’t, and you’re dead.
It seems that Jedi from the movies, and even the Clone Wars cartoons, are outmatched, but what about Jedi from KOTOR II? My character at the end of the game was pretty damn tough, and the other Jedi were no slouches either. Here are my Jedi’s stats, roughly (the player’s Jedi is known generically as the Exile):
ungodly huge hitpoints
medium armor and a fairly high dodge ability
twin lightsabers, tricked out for very high damage and some extra deflection ability
good unarmed attack skill
high rate of attack, can be boosted further for a time with Master Speed power
high stealth skill, but cannot enter stealth when actively fighting
medium Sneak Attack (extra damage when stealthy or enemy is immobilized)
very high saves (chance to avoid or lessen effects from special attacks, like Force or mutant powers)
Force powers somewhat difficult to resist
high Force points (determines how many times Force powers can be used before resting)
Force Healing
Master Speed (combat bonuses as mentioned above, also increases run speed)
Stasis Field (immobilizes enemies in a radius for a short period of time)
Force Wave (knocks over enemies in a radius and deals some damage)
some other powers I forget
Now, I think the Exile would still have her ass handed to her in several pieces by Storm or Phoenix, but a one-on-one with other mutants would be less clear cut. With the impossible to kill types (Wolvie, Iceman, Kitty Pryde), she could at least survive long enough to escape, and she could probably put Wolvie down for the count. With Cyclops, it’s a matter of who can take best advantage of the battlefield. If Cyke is on a high ledge or in the middle of a field he wins, but if there’s a lot of cover the Exile can use her stealth and speed to take him out. Colossus could go either way: Can the Exile cut through his metal self before he pounds her flat? Can Colossus keep up with her bursts of speed? Nightcrawler is similar, except he’s more dodgy and less tanky than the Exile. Professor X would not find it easy to penetrate the Exile’s mind, given her Will save, but he could do it eventually. I don’t think he could do it in a combat situation though.
Of course, the X-Men rarely fight alone, and the Exile often has 2 other Jedi with her. I’d still give the advantage to the X-Men, because together they have much more varied powers and know how to combine them to deadly effect. There would be casualties on both sides though.
Oh, and about wolf’s remarks:
[spoiler]Sunry didn’t just shoot some random Jedi, he was having an affair with her. Jedi clearly have blind spots where loved ones are concerned, which is probably why they generally detach themselves from such things.
Atton is not only Force sensitive and trainable, he also has a trick he uses to mask his true thoughts and make him seem like a mere obsessive gambler.[/spoiler]
Atton was particularly good, but there were a lot of others who weren’t force-sensitive. Also, Sunry’s target was just sleeping with him to try and get information; she didn’t care about him at all.
Don’t even go there. Mixing videogames into this is a bad idea. If you go that way, you can theoretically have your level 99 Super-Jedi. And… no, it doesn’t work. Much of what they presented in the games blatantly breaks what Jedi can and cannot do anywhere else in SW.
Man, I don’t even want to think about MMORGs. Leave those out of it.
A few points:
1: Yes, it matters that Jedi kill first and ask questions later. X-villains typically do not do this. They’re looking to capture or convert the X-Men. Yes, plans go awry and Magneto or Sinister or Apocalypse will want to rip someone’s heart out, but it always starts with joining the anti-human crusade or participating in an experiment or being a Horseman of Something Nasty. There are some initially homicidal X-villains, like Juggernaut and most anyone who hates Wolverine’s guts, but they tend to be pretty dumb and can be dealt with after a little planning. Also, all X-villains monologue. Smart and lethal is unusual for the X-Men, I’m not sure they’d fare well.
2: I don’t understand the whole “X-Men are professional specialists and can therefore beat up a Jedi no sweat.” Jedi are a religious order trained from birth to use an magic powers (mana if you want to get anthropological) to control objects and people, as well as in hand-to-hand and spaceship combat. (They could stand to add gun practice.) And that’s pretty much all they do for their whole lives. If anything, they have better and more intensive training than a given X-Man, who doesn’t manifest until puberty and doesn’t train for combat until the mid- to late-teens when they first enter Xavier’s school or become a villain, which an astonishing number of them used to be. The Jedi have an experience edge most X-Men can’t match.
3: Lightsabers are pretty tough weapons. They certainly slash through flesh and robots without any trouble. Darth Vader’s slashing through support struts with his in “Empire” and “Jedi.” The only time I’ve seen one even slowed down is when Qui-Gon tries to jimmy a door with one, and it’s implied he’d have got in if he wasn’t pressed for time. Colossus’s wrists should be no sweat, though his torso might be a challenge. I’m thinking Rogue’s less durable than him, so she’s in even bigger trouble. I’m torn on the adamantium skeleton. It supposed to be unbreakable, but when Logan takes bullets, they fly through his body and out the other side without stopping. Also, the wretched “Age of Apocalypse” storyline indicated he can lose limbs even with the reinforced bones. I’m thinking adamantium provides initial resistance to a lightsaber, but does yield to pressure. Maybe enough for Wolverine to deal more damage. Maybe enough for him to die slower. This of course assumes that the Jedi who sees the slobbering man-beast extending foot-long claws does not immediately Force-push him into a wall and knock him out.
4: Yes, if the X-Men went in at full strength, they’d win. A thousand Jedi wouldn’t survive Storm cooking up an F5 tornado while everyone else has coffee back at the school. But the X-Men never start at full strength. For one thing, a Storm or a Cyclops would hit the macho idiots like Wolverine who have to go charging up to any opponent and start flailing. There’s also a question of scale. There would certainly be no reason to go all-out when you first challenge two idiots dressed like Hare Krishnas. The need to power up won’t be obvious until after the X-shock troops are dead and whoever’s hanging at the back is stuck dealing with two contrite warrior monks alone. Too late.
5: I’d like to mention the Secret Wars for two reasons. First, Harborwolf contends that on a strange planet, fighting a mysterious opponent, the X-Telepaths as well as “Sniffles” Logan are going to be on full alert and the team can’t be jumped. This is exactly what doesn’t happen in “Secret Wars.” The telepath - Professor X, no less - is blind to what’s coming and everybody gets their asses kicked. Second, the ass-kicker is Spider-Man. Just like the Jedi and their traitorous clones, the X-Men put their faith in an ally that should have been trustworthy and paid with a bootprint where the Sun don’t shine. There’s no shame in either of these moments.
6: I’m not comfortable with the archetypes I set up. I just needed a generic X-team to take on my generic Jedi, and didn’t want to consider the infinite permutations the mutants could field. In the olden days, there was always a mindreader, an energy bolt shooter, a bruiser, an acrobat, and a wiseass. These new teams are just stupid - Wolverine’s in all three squads, and White Queen’s in two? Forget that.
Here’s how a Jedi would handle a few more of Harborwolf’s examples. Note that anyone except maybe a telepath can be pushed back via the Force, or bombarded with loose objects. I’ve never heard of this
CYCLOPS: Lightsaber deflect his optic blast back at him. This can be done; I’ve seen him angle shots off mirrored surfaces. He’s not going to start with the wide-angle shot, and would probably be taken out before he got the chance.
HAVOK: See above. I’ve always understood he’s a bitchier Cyclops who shoots lasers out of his fingers instead of his eyes. Same result, though.
ICEMAN: As a practical matter, freezing water vapor takes two forms for Bobby Drake. He either slides on a fast-growing trail of ice while throwing iceballs or ice trails or some chunk of ice at his enemy, or he encases his opponent in a solid chunk of ice. The iceball thing is a sad joke that doesn’t pose a serious threat, or else kindergartners wouldn’t be allowed to do it. The ice tomb ought to work better - seriously, his opponents should be smothered in that - but more often than not the opponent dramatically smashes through the ice to continue the fight anew. Not hard for a Force user to do, and I don’t think they’ll give him a second chance. The immortality thing is news to me, and makes him less interesting as a character. Have they said as much that he can keep fighting for eternity?
STORM: Her freeze abilities are of no more use than Iceman’s, and her lightning isn’t any more use than Cyclops’ and Havok’s lightshows. Lightning can’t be deflected at least, but it’s a simple spark, unlike sustained Force lightning, so it won’t distract for more than a split-second. Both lightning and tornados start small to avoid hurting her teammates, and serve as warnings to knock her out as soon as possible.
NIGHTCRAWLER: Yes, he’s a swordsman. No, he doesn’t carry a sword everywhere he goes. He’s secure in his masculinity, unlike Gambit. Doesn’t matter anyway, what magic sword does he have that could last against a lightsaber? Acrobatics probably won’t get him close enough to matter. Teleporting in on top of the Jedi mean he can get in a few cheap shots before he gets stabbed, and that’s assuming the Jedi don’t sense him coming.
KITTY PRIDE: Is a complete wuss who spent about fifteen years whimpering innocently while fights swirled around her, and only started to come out of it when she was made Colossus’ boink so readers would quit calling him gay. She’s next to useless in a fight, although breaking the lightsabers is a nice idea. She’s susceptible to the push, though, since it’s a mental trick that doesn’t require physical contact. Killing her would be difficult, except for Dark Side tempted Skywalkers who like to choke long-distance. But it’s not like she’s a threat, so what would it matter?
PHOENIX: Stronger than the other combat telepaths, but there is the question of how Phoenixy she is. Dark Phoenix is an enemy who’s as likely to kill everyone and then go on a galaxy-eating splurge. Ordinary Phoenix is more limited in power, isn’t into mind control the way the Professor is, nor is she kill happy. She’d make a tougher fight for the Jedi but I think she’d be battered down at the end.
WHITE QUEEN: The best chance the X-Men have. Almost as talented mentally as Phoenix, with armor and a ruthless attitude Jean Gray lacks. Still, I wish someone would call Marvel and tell them that diamonds can shatter if you hit them with a hammer. That diamond skin isn’t as useful as the books suggest. She’d be hard to beat, as she’s about equal to a Jedi in mental abilities and they’d have to drop a lot of junk on her to crack her hide. Pair her with Jean Gray and the X-Men can win, assuming the two women can stand each other.
I’ve never heard of this X23, I meant to say, so I can’t comment on her.
I’ve only seen x-23 once, but girlverine describes her well enough. Enhanced senses/metal laced skeleton, probably adamantium/two claws on each hand extending similar to wolverine.
As for the killing thing, the best example I could give are the sentinels. No monolouges. No real amount of capturing. They are programmed to kill mutants. The hand comes next. Mystical ninja assasins. Sabretooth is up next. Hell, all of Wolverines villains fit into that group.
I figured the light saber would be less effective against colossus for a couple of reasons. He’s tougher than ordinary metal, and he’s made entirely of it. Even his wrists are going to be equivalent to very thick spaceship armor. Going by the movies, it’s going to take a while to slice through it. Rogues invulnerability is pretty close to Colossus level, so the same applies.
Adamantium is unbreakable. That means uncuttable. It doesn’t matter how bad the light saber is, it’s not going to cut. Wolverine is pretty hard to knock out due to the healing factor and adamantium. You also seem to be pretty dismissive of the rest of his abilities, so let me attempt to clarify. His senses are enhanced well beyond the normal capabilities of a human, so he’s damn hard to sneak up on. His training includes canadian black op (go ahead and laugh, but in the comics Canada has been up to some nasty shizzle. It’s very odd.) samurai, and ninja training. He’s is easily one of the best fighters in the marvel universe if not the top. His reflexes are top notch and his strength is olympic level if not slightly higher. There are reasons why he is the best at what he does. Bullets flying through would indicate that they missed the bones, not that they broke them.
I wasn’t saying that it would be completely impossible to sneak up on the x-men, but it would be very difficult. For their parts, the jedi are used to fighting idiots. I also assumed that neither side would know what they were getting into for the purposes of the battle. That would give the advantage heavily to the x-men since the jedi would see a group of colorfully dressed unarmed humanoids. The jedi wouldn’t go in full force either because they wouldn’t know that they had to. Mutant powers are not the force, and the jedi don’t seem to be able to find out of someone is really tough with the force. Wolverine is another good example. With his adamantium skeleton, he weighs around 800lbs iirc. The jedi will not know that and will try a force push for a standard humanoid which will not do the trick.
I’ll try to restate the “specialist” comment. The x-paths primarily use their mental abilities. Their combat skills suck, but they do regularly and easily what I have never seen jedi do. All of them can paralyze groups of people with their minds. I can’t remember seeing a jedi do that and I’m pretty sure that it would take a good deal of concentration to freeze one person. Next comes straight up reality distortion: thinking you did something when you didn’t, illusions, etc. Telekinetically, it’s no contest at all. Jedi have to concentrate to fling something and really concentrate to do something heavy. Not so with the x-men. Even psylocke could’ve lifted the x-wing out of the swamp with half the concentration that it took yoda. They can stop bullets with their telekinesis.
You’ve also really underestimated kitty pryde and iceman. Kitty Pryde has recieved formal martial arts training under one of wolverines teachers and from wolverine. She’s an accomplished pilot and combat strategist. Simply put, she’s grown up. She’d be a match for a standard jedi in hand to hand combat alone. With her phasing ability, it’s not a contest.
Iceman can freeze and refreeze an opponent in a block of ice, can create ice slides and barriers that would need to be cut through, ice up the ground so the jedi can’t stand, etc.
Storms lightning is far from just a spark. It’s lightning. Controls the weather, remember? Force lightning is just a spark by comparison. She can also create a localized cold system to slow enemies (tain’t easy to fight when it’s sub zero). She can create large gusts of wind similar to a force push but with far more potential strength.
Nightcrawler can get in more than a few cheap shots. He’s a highly trained fighter that can appear and disappear before a jedis reflexes can even process wher he is. He would get in more than a few cheap shots.
Now again, I have to get ready for work. I would remind you that just saying something isn’t a threat does not make it so. You seem to be lacking in knowledge of what the x-men are really capable of.
Just how unbreakable are we talking about here? Like, completely, literally, unbreakable? I mean, say you threw Wolverine’s skeleton into the sun and let it sit there for a few billion years. Then the sun collapses in on itself, forming a black hole the size of a golf ball. Would the black hole then be encased in Wolverine’s (still perfectly formed) skeleton? Or is there a little wiggle-room in the term “indestructable.”
I ask because, in the movies, lightsabers go through everything like a hot knife through butter, with the exception of energy weapons or shields. Unless “indestructable” is being used in the strictly literal sense, then, I’m inclined to think that the lightsabers won’t descriminate between hard metal and harder metal.
Spider-Man beat him. No shame in that, but as a Spidey fan, I felt I had to point it out.
And, hey, now that I think about it: adamantium=not so indestructable, according to Wolverine himself. In the Spidey-Wolveine battle I referred to, Spider-Man “wins” by finally getting himself on top of Wolverine, with his hands around his neck. Wolverine taunts his unwillingness to pull the trigger, in the course of which he admits that if Parker used all his might, he could probably snap his neck.
I’m pretty sure it was in Spider-Man vs. Wolverine. I remember it taking place in a graveyard, and the cover rings a bell. Wish I’d hung on to that.
