The long and winding divorce.....

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
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Usually the longer people continue to live together after separation date, the more difficult it becomes to untangle their matters. Since property equalization is calculated based on equally dividing the parties’ net growth from date of marriage to date of separation date, as opposed to the date they stopped living together, disputes often arise over who should be reimbursed for what following separation, and who should be compensated for what after separation, particulary when one of them has money problems.

The longest I ever dealt with was a fellow who lived downstairs while his wife lived upstairs for eighteen years following separation, with each insisting on being reimbursed or compensated by the other for contributions (monetary or physical) made to the house over that period. Needless to say, it fucked up their kids’ heads.

Usually the best thing folks can do upon separation is to each get their own independant lawyer, untangle their financial affiars (incuding each maintaining his and her own separate financial affairs, and one buying out the other from the matrimonial home or else selling the matrimonial home for whatever it will go for at that time and in that condition), and move to separate residences. When folks resist doing this, it usually leads to more misery for a longer period.

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When is this plan taking effect? You wrote the OP on Halloween, almost a month and a half ago. I’ve personally had three paydays in that time- which in my case would be enough to move into a one-bedroom apartment with security deposit and first/last, plus a little extra, and I most definitely do not make ‘decent money.’ In that time, you’ve had (possibly three, maybe more) paychecks siphoned off into the Great Unknown, where they’re doing god knows what- but whatever they’re doing, they’re apparently not paying bills or helping to restore your credit. You’ve perpetrated fraud on your company twice in four months (using your corporate card for non-corporate items), so you’ve known for at least that long that there’s a significant financial hole that money is dropping into. And you say you ‘plan’ to change things.

You trusted that she was paying the bills- but you’ve had evidence for at least 10 years that she’s not good with money, and evidence for at least 10 months that she’s NOT paying the bills. When, exactly, did you think she was going to change? That’s not trust- that’s putting on blinders and hanging on for the ride.

I’m going to have to go with Elbows on this one. When I decided to get out, I got out- told my husband I was leaving and moved 900 miles away in the same week, with almost nothing to my name. I kept him on my cell phone plan and car insurance because he simply couldn’t afford it, and in exchange I got the tax refund. We had to wait to file the divorce until after our bankruptcy went through, but everything was done- signed, sealed, delivered- in less than a year. There was no ‘let me keep up the same dysfunctional habits that have kept me mired in misery for 10 years- BUT I HAVE A PLAN TO CHANGE THAT WILL GET ENACTED SOON.’

You realize that that line of credit for the roof may not come through if they see you’ve had your electricity and phone cut off and haven’t paid on an outstanding loan in 10 months, right? NOW who’s being unrealistic?

Until you accept the role you’ve played in this, you’re not going to fix anything. Go to HR first thing Monday morning and fill out the one-page piece of paper that gets your paycheck sent to a different account. Call your loan company and get the payments started back up after apologizing profusely. Then get your own lawyer and get your plan actually rolling, rather than playing poor pitiful me until some magical day in April when things will be better.

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I should add, we were able to use the same lawyer, but only because we pretty much had nothing but physical property after the bankruptcy, and I’d already given him everything when I left. I paid for the lawyer, and it was done entirely with the lawyer and my ex in Alabama and me in Virginia- I never set foot into a courthouse.

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Get real.

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I have kids to think of. I can’t just sequester my pay and run away. Things haven’t been good for years; another few months isn’t the end of the world.

The line of credit is secure. We have lots of equity on the house to secure it.

I owe my kids at least one more Christmas as a family. Don’t panic. Things will start coalescing in the new year.

ETA: I’m responsible for paying the balance on my corporate card, which I’ve done. Perpetrating fraud? Take a deep breath please.

166

I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread with interest for a number of reasons.

I’ve been in a similar situation monetarily. My wife – also being a control freak – has always been in charge of the bills. More than a decade ago it was suddenly becoming an issue when I wanted to spend $20 on something, and when I questioned it I found out she had been gambling online and lost > $10000, racked up significant CC charges and fallen behind on bills. We eventually recovered, as it forced her to get a job paying her what she should have been making – about twice what she was. Thankfully that problem has never again reared its ugly head, and all bills are paid in full monthly.

We now have a not insignificant amount of money in a couple of accounts, but all of these are in both of our names. Were I to ever leave her, I would imagine handling this would be a nightmare in the short term. I honestly wouldn’t know where or how to start, and when one person controls all the money, it’s certainly not easy for the other to come up with the cash required for a first/last/security prior to leaving.

On top of everything else, it must be very daunting to overcome this. I wish you the best of luck, Leaffan, and will continue following your saga in the hopes it all works out for the best.

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I, for one, believed all along that you paid it back. But just the act of deliberately putting personal charges on a corporate card is a cardinal sin at my company. And it doesn’t matter if you pay it back. So be careful; your company may not think it’s such a shruggable offense.

Take a deep breath, please. No one said you should sequester your money and run away. We said that you should quit depositing money into an account that you have no control over, and cannot even view to ensure that bills are being paid. Months ago, she proved that your trust in her to manage the bills was misplaced. You should have taken the bull by the horns then, for no other reason than to protect your credit score. Instead, you did nothing. And now you’re using the holidays as an excuse as to why you’ve delayed again, as if you can’t love your children and take control of the bills at the same time. Please.

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PunditLisa said it exceptionally well.

Fraud is exactly the word that is used in the agreement we sign for my corporate cards in the part where we agree to only use the card for corporate expenses, so I see no reason to take a deep breath. It’s in the same paragraph as things like “jail-able offense.” Of course you can argue that I work for a company that’s funded by the federal government, and that things are different across the border, but I still struggle with the concept of putting personal expenses on a corporate card. How do you explain the bill to your accounting department? Even if you pay it off, the charge is still there on the statement. I can’t even put a glass of wine from a business dinner on my corporate card- putting an electric bill on there (twice) is mind-boggling.

I certainly never said to sequester your money and run, but the fact that you read it that way makes me wonder if you’re seeing any movement on your part as a potentially hugely negative thing, since- as you wrote in the OP- you’re “not good at conflicts.” Changing the status quo=potential conflict, so easier to keep testing the sand around your ears than create conflict. I gave you the example of my own divorce so that you can see how simple changes can be once the final decision is made- I made HUGE changes, very quickly. But all you have to do is chat with your HR department and suddenly you have disposable income at your fingertips rather than in an account that you can’t get to, where it’s being used.. well, basically to fund whatever your wife has been funding (or setting it aside for) for the past five years. You don’t have to make a huge screaming match out of it, you don’t have to move out immediately, you don’t even have to say a word… just sign a form and it’s done. In the land of divorce, it doesn’t get any easier than that, but you’re pushing back against it.. why?

You owe your children nothing more than the basics- roof over their head, food in their bellies, and love- and peace and stability. How can they possibly be affected by you moving your money into a safe account? How would they even know? How can your moving YOUR money suddenly deny them Christmas as a family?

Incidentally- that thing you ‘can’t do’? That’s what your wife has been doing for five years, and came veryvery close to accomplishing before figuring out that she can’t afford the condo. She’s been sequestering your money, and was ready to run. So you have the moral high ground.. congrats. But that’s not going to get you very far when the new year rolls around and you still have money going into her account instead of into a nice Christmas for the kids (because really- no phone and the electricity shut off twice, plus no loan payments for 10 months? where’s the money for the presents going to come from, if you don’t take control??) and a little nest egg for you to move into a new place.

What part of my sentence are you objecting to? The insinuation that you are playing a role in the way your life is unfolding, or the insinuation that if you don’t realize WHAT role you’re playing and change it, that things will simply continue on as they have been? I can’t get much more really real than either of those two statements.

Please re-read the last sentence of Muffin’s most recent post. It contains (well, all of Muffin’s posts do, but this one in particular) great wisdom.

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I do appreciate all the advice, and will be acting on some of it shortly.

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That’s what I’m seeing, too - every new post is making even more alarm bells go off in my head.

Please, please do - your wife has been monkeying around with your money and the family money for years, and now she is the only one talking to her lawyer - this is not an amicable split. Please start protecting yourself.

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Ok. We’re all just concerned for you. :frowning:

172

Thank you. That means a lot to me.

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I’m new on here so I won’t presume to be personal, all I will say is hang on tight, the ride will be rough and long but it will get better.

Getting the divorce is only the start of the fun, from there on it’s the interaction over the kids.

I got married young, had kids young and divorced young. One of the reasons was that my wife was shithouse with money, so I didn’t give her any. if I gave her $100 to get some groceries, she’d come home with all sorts of snacks and crap but no meat and veg and no change.

We were renting at the time, the furniture was all second hand, the only asset I had was my car. I put her up in a flat, provided furniture, gave her the car and I kept the rented house (that I now own) and the kids. She acted as the babysitter before and after school, then went home leaving me to clean up her mess and cook dinner for the kids. Working full time raising 2 kids while the ex gets all the government benefits is a biatch.

While it was tough, I got through it. Nearly 20 years later I’m in good employment with cash in the bank, the kids are both working my daughter still lives with me, my son lives not far away with his girlfriend and i’m happily single and staying that way.

The ex lives not that far away having racked up 2 more kids and a few more failed relationships in the ensuing years.

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Wow! My husband signs over his entire paycheck to me and I pay all the bills/take care of the money. I would never even think to screw us financially.

I work at saving money all over the place with our money. I want us to have a good future. Anyone who would do that is morally deficient in my books.

(Granted, I am very conscious that it is OUR money and not MY money. As such, it should be treated with respect. Also, I show him ‘the books’ (an elaborate spreadsheet) whenever he wants. Which is rarely. As long as he can get the occasional toy and has a nice, clean home, money doesn’t mean a lot to him.)

175

So, my mum will be here for four days over Christmas. At this point she knows nothing about the separation, etc. My wife says to me “are you going to tell your mum?”

Yes. Yes, I will tell her, but not until after Christmas. I wanted to tell her face-to-face but she lives 400 miles from here and this is the first time I’ve seen her since the breakup became official.

So, on the last day of her visit I planned on telling her. My wife now wants to be part of that conversation and I’m not sure if I’m comfortable with that. I think I should be able to have this conversation with my mum without my wife being present.

What advice do the rest of you have; is this a personal conversation with my mum, or is it normal for the three of us to sit down together and talk. Frankly, I have no idea why my wife would even want to be in the discussion.

I really need help figuring this one out.

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This is a personal conversation with your mother. There’s not even really a debate here. To be honest, at this point, you might need to have it sooner to prevent your wife from blindsiding you on this and cornering your mom at some point during the vacation. At least consider that. As you’re all in the same house, you can’t really monitor every single conversation two adults have, so there’s nothing stopping your wife from catching your mom alone, even for a moment, and saying something like “soooo, has Leaffan told you he needs to have a conversation with you yet?”

If you decide (and it’s up to you), you can include something in your conversation with mom that Wife would also like to speak with her, if your mom agrees (and genuinely agrees, I don’t know what kind of dynamic you and your mom have, or your mom and your wife have, so mom shouldn’t feel pressured to agree). If your wife is a normal person, what she wants to say could be as appropriate as “we want to make sure you don’t feel threatened about your role as a grandmother to the kids.” Sadly, based on what you have shared about her here, I can imagine it including other crap as well.

I also wanted to add my best wishes for you getting out of this toxic situation. It seems very bad, and that it has been that way for a long time. I admire how you’ve always tried to put the interests of the kids first … and I hope you also see that ultimately, the divorce may very well be in their best interests as well.

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Holy crap this is a bad idea. Your wife will absolutely say something sooner and you’d be a fool to let her control that conversation.

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Thanks. That won’t happen. I’m 100% sure.

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No. She would not, absolutely would not, say something to my mum. I know her well enough and for all her faults she would never do this behind my back. Guaranteed.

But should I include her in “the talk” is my question?

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No, absolutely not. Your mom needs the freedom to be able to react or respond in whatever way is appropriate given her relationship with YOU. She does not need the burden of having to respond to two people.

If your mom wants to talk to your wife after (either alone, or having your wife join you), then fine.